Recovery Board  : RfM
Recovery from Mormonism (RfM) discussion forum. 
Go to Topic: PreviousNext
Go to: Forum ListMessage ListNew TopicSearchLog In
Posted by: Crazy horse ( )
Date: July 12, 2018 03:34PM

Ok I don't know why Mormons always say we are Christians when they talk about Joseph Smith so much! And the book of Mormon! Yeah and I am a patriots fan! And I have prayed and know football is true!

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: anybody ( )
Date: July 12, 2018 04:03PM


Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: Patriotsfan.. ( )
Date: July 12, 2018 04:05PM

Hey me too man. Tom Brady is #1. I didn't need to know Tom Brady was true though, because it wasn't a matter of faith like the BOM, he just is the greatest QB of all time because of the evidence. Ain't no evidence for the BOM or Joe Smith. Mormons want to be classified as Christian's because they know they have some bat **** crazy stuff in their history and are tired of looking strange. Hard to mainstream a religion that was started by a pedophile though.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: catnip ( )
Date: July 12, 2018 09:35PM

You are sadly deluded. Russell Wilson is a better QB. Just look up the stats: completed passes, stuff like that.

Brady is so YESTERDAY.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: koriwhore ( )
Date: July 12, 2018 04:10PM

Christians dont sing the praises of men, much less pedophiles and cuckold bulls.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: jacob ( )
Date: July 12, 2018 04:25PM

Things like this is where you go off of the rails. There are so many disparate views in Christianity that there is definitely space for singing the praises of men, even bad men.

But just to point out the obvious. The One, Holy, Roman, Apostolic, and Catholic Church has a detailed and lengthy process established to sing the praises of people. As well as a more sordid and recent reputation than Mormonism when it comes to pedophilia. Add to the discussion the fact that their stance on marriage and family has documented problems when it comes to rape and murder. Lastly their missionary force is at least partially responsible for the death of millions.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: Aaron ( )
Date: July 12, 2018 09:29PM

They have an army of doomsday sex cult recruiters too!!

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: pugsly ( )
Date: July 12, 2018 04:14PM

They just parrot phrases they have been conditioned to repeat. They really don't know what a Christian is.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: dogblogger ( )
Date: July 12, 2018 04:37PM

There is no unified universal definition of Christian.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: Nottelling ( )
Date: July 12, 2018 04:47PM

A Christian is "supposed" to be one who believes Jesus died for their sins. Many religions believe that, but then it seems to go off in many different directions depending on what denomination you are in or believe in. Did God really want all these denominations? I think God only wanted one way, and we messed it up and invented all these other religions, but which way is the "original" way???

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: Crazy horse ( )
Date: July 12, 2018 04:55PM

And Mormons do secret temple rites and Joe Smith married a lot of women and they hate black people and gays! Plus Joe Smith was a freemason, if missionaries knock on my door I will say i know taco bell is true I ate a taco and it is true! Or I have prayed and know the patriots are true

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: Crazy horse ( )
Date: July 12, 2018 04:55PM

They are still a cult

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: ificouldhietokolob ( )
Date: July 12, 2018 05:57PM

Depending on how you define "christian" (and by the way, there is no universally agreed-on definition, and in fact most sects define it as "us or those almost exactly like us"), they ARE christians.

And there are lots of other "christians" that are also cults. Thousands, in fact.

Are mormons unusual, wacky, way-different-from-average christians? Yep.

But they're christians -- they believe in Jesus, and that he died for their sins.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: anono this week ( )
Date: July 12, 2018 05:58PM

Because they are not. At least in the traditional sense. They have their own ceremonies, pass words, and laws, seelings. They are sort of reinventing the old testament ideas all over again and forgot what the new testament is all about.

I guess there are Mormons who can be Christians, if they recognize that salvation doesn't come from going to a temple made by hands, or paying tithing?

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: RPackham ( )
Date: July 12, 2018 06:14PM

Are Mormons Christians? Well, the answer is: yes and no. It all depends. The question usually does not appear as a question, but as an assertion: "Mormons aren't Christian!"

The word "Christian" is a label, and thus it has all the advantages and disadvantages of any label. The fundamental problem with labels - although they are very convenient - is that we humans tend to think (quite unjustifiably) that if we can find the proper label for something, the label brings an understanding of that thing's essence. This is not true. Labels have no such power and contain no such knowledge or information. Inferences drawn from labels may be correct, but just as likely may not be correct. That is, we "read into" the thing characteristics that belong to our definition of the label, but not necessarily to the thing we are labeling.

There are dozens of possible definitions of "Christian," (that is, ways in which people use the word) even in addition to those in the dictionary, and they range all the way from very broad ("a Christian is anyone who tries to live his life by the teachings of Jesus") to very, very narrow ("a Christian is someone whose views and beliefs about Jesus Christ are exactly like mine").

I think most Christians today who are quick to label Mormons as not Christian generally overlook the fact that the earliest followers of Jesus would probably not qualify under their definition of "Christian," either. Those early Christians did not accept the Nicene Creed, because that only developed several centuries later (after much debate and opposition by devout Christians, who were then labeled "heretics"). There was no agreement during the first few centuries on the nature of Christ, the scriptural canon, and many other doctrinal matters, which were only decided much later. They did not even call themselves "Christians." - the term was not generally used for Jesus' Jerusalem followers, but was invented by the heathen population of Antioch to refer to the Gentile Jesus-followers in Antioch.

Actually, there are a number of areas where Mormon and non-Mormon Christians agree about Jesus. I suggest that these are some of those areas, and one could certainly argue that anyone with these beliefs could be labeled "Christian":

Jesus is divine and part of the Godhead.
He is the Messiah promised in the Old Testament.
The world was created by him.
He is the "Only Begotten Son" of God.
He died to atone for the sins of mankind.
He was prepared from the beginning of the world for his mission of atonement.
He was bodily resurrected from the dead.
By his resurrection he conquered death so that all mankind will be resurrected.
He was perfect and sinless.
He founded the true church.
Only believers in him will be saved.
He will someday return to earth and usher in a period of peace lasting a thousand years, during which he will rule as king.

The following Mormon teachings differ sharply from the doctrine of many traditional Christian denominations, and are probably the basis for the frequent Christian assertion that "Mormons are not Christian":

Jesus is a separate person from God the Father.
Jesus is a literal child of God the Father, both spiritually and physically.
Since we are all spirit children of God the Father, in that sense Jesus is our spirit brother.
Jesus was married (early Mormon prophets also taught that he was a polygamist).
Christ's atonement is not effective for certain very grievous sins (this doctrine of "blood atonement" is not mentioned much by modern Mormons)
The moment of Christ's atonement was as he prayed in Gethsemane, not his death on the cross.
One should not "worship" Jesus or pray to him, but only to God the Father, in Jesus' name.
One should not try to develop a "personal relationship" with Christ.
To be saved, one must not only believe in Christ, but must "obey his commandments" (that is, "works" are as important as "grace")
Other religions and other "Christian" churches are false; Mormons will get a higher place in heaven.

It is an ironic fact of Mormon history that when I was growing up Mormon in the 1940s, we Mormons were quite proud of the fact that we weren't "Christian," but rather "Mormon." At that time we Mormons understood that to be Christian was to subscribe to all the false doctrines of the Methodists, Lutherans, Catholics, and other false churches. It is only in the last few decades that the Mormon church has changed its attitude, and now wants desperately to be considered among the "Christian" churches, probably because they consider that by accepting the label "Christian" they will not appear so unusual in the eyes of unaware prospective converts, who only find out later that the Mormons have quite different definitions of "Christian," "God," and hundreds of other terms used by traditional denominations.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: SusieQ#1 ( )
Date: July 12, 2018 06:40PM

It doesn't take much to say you are a Christian.
It is not the Mormon Church.. that is not it's name, of course. So they have taken a solid position... Church of Jesus Christ... etc.
Anyone who believes in the teachings of Jesus Christ, as their savior, can call themselves Christian.
I don't have a problem with it. They can call themselves whatever they want.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: J.B. Briggs ( )
Date: July 12, 2018 07:39PM

Ironically, they spent much of their early history claiming they were the One True Church (TM) and Christians were pure evil.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: ificouldhietokolob ( )
Date: July 12, 2018 07:48PM

Ultimately...

If they are "christians," does that make mormonism any more or less true?

No.

If they aren't "christians," does that make mormonism any more or less true?

No.

So it doesn't really matter, does it?

As Richard pointed out, the current church likes to say "we're christians!" largely because they want to appear more "mainstream" and less weird. It's a marketing tactic. And it might, maybe, just a little, appeal to a small set of people who don't bother to check things out anyway, and who are -- in this internet age -- woefully ignorant, and so will think they're just joining another "mainstream" christian sect.

Personally I think that set of people is extremely tiny. So again, it really doesn't matter.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: koriwhore ( )
Date: July 12, 2018 08:39PM

Christians don't pack pornographic dick pics of their pagan sex God around in their scriptures.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: ificouldhietokolob ( )
Date: July 12, 2018 08:51PM

Since I'd bet real money you haven't examined every other "christian's" scriptures to see if that's the case, I call BS.

I'll also point out the "no true Scotsman" fallacy. Socrates would be disappointed.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: koriwhore ( )
Date: July 12, 2018 09:32PM

ificouldhietokolob Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Since I'd bet real money you haven't examined
> every other "christian's" scriptures to see if
> that's the case, I call BS.
>
> I'll also point out the "no true Scotsman"
> fallacy. Socrates would be disappointed.
I call Bullshit on your bullshit.
Christians don't have another scripture besides the Bible.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/12/2018 09:33PM by koriwhore.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: dogblogger ( )
Date: July 12, 2018 09:48PM

From https://redeeminggod.com/boners-in-the-bible/

Euphemisms for Boners in the Bible

The Bible doesn’t contain the word “penis.” Post-biblical Hebrew uses the clinical term ebar (organ/limb) or ebar qatan (small organ/limb) but no such term exists in biblical Hebrew. Instead, the Bible uses innuendo and euphemism to refer to the male sexual organ. Here are a few of these:

regel, “foot/feet,”

Exodus 4:25: “and Zipporah took a flint and cut off the foreskin of her son and brought it next to his ragla.”

2 Kings 18:27 (cf. Isa 36:12): “Did my lord send me to say these words against your lord and to you, was it not to the people sitting on the wall who will eat their dung and drink from the waters of their ragleyhem.”

keliy, “instrument, tool”

2 Samuel 21:5-6: “There is no common bread at hand, only sacred bread if the young men have guarded themselves from women. And David responded to the priest, “Indeed, women are kept away from us as always when I go out, and the keliym of the young men are holy even on a common journey.”

qoten, “small one”

1 Kings 12:10 (2 Chr 10:10): “My qotonniy is thicker than the loin of my father.”

es, “stick,” and maqel, “staff”

Hosea 4:12: “My people inquire from their stick and ask counsel from their staff because a spirit of whoring made them stray, and they whored away from their God.”

yad, “hand”

Isaiah 57:8: “You mounted and you widened your bed … you loved their bed, you saw a yad.”

Isaiah 58:10: “You found the life force of your yad.”

sekobet, “lying”

Leviticus 20:15: “and a man who places his sekobet in an animal will be put to death.”

mebuwsiym, “embarrasments”

Deuteronomy 25:11: “The wife of one draws near to rescue her husband from his attacker, and she extends her hands and grabs his mesuwsiym.”

basar, “flesh, meat”

Exodus 28:42: “Let them make for themselves linen pants to cover the basar of nakedness.”

Leviticus 15:2-3, 16. This is a chapter dealing with genital discharges. Basar is the word that is used.

Leviticus 18:6: “Don’t approach the relative of your basar to reveal nakedness.”

Ezekiel 16:26: “And you whored with the sons of Egypt, your neighbors big of basar, and you multiplied your whoring to anger me.”

Ezekiel 23:20: “She lusted on account of their concubines, those whose basar is the basar of donkeys, and their flow the flow of stallions.”

yarek, “thigh”

Genesis 46:26: “All people … who came from his yarek.”

Judges 8:30: “And Gideon had seventy sons who came out of his yarek.”

The author of this book goes on to argue (quite persuasively) that the “rib” in Genesis 2:21-22 is another euphemism.
The “Rib” as the Missing Baculum

baculumIn his book, the Hebrew scholar points out that nearly all mammals and all primates (except humans) have a penis bone called a baculum. Ancient people would have recognized that it was missing from human males, and Genesis 2:21-23 is the etiological (a story to explain something’s origin … like how the skunk got it’s stripe) story for why human males do not have a baculum.

He shows that the word for “rib” (tsela) never means rib anywhere in the Bible, but instead refers to a plank, side, or beam in a building or boat. The word “rib” snuck into our translations through the LXX (the Greek translation of the Old Testament) and Jerome’s Latin Vulgate, and has become the traditional (and safe) understanding of this Hebrew word.

Now, I read some online articles that have discussed this idea, and I understand that people will think scholars are trying to get the Bible to say something different than what it actually says. But the truth is that the word “rib” is actually the result of scholars trying to get the Bible to say something different than what it actually says.

The Hebrew word in Genesis 2:21-22 doesn’t mean rib, and it never has.

boner in the BibleThis Hebrew scholar goes on to say that the word refers to the missing penis bone. The Hebrew people didn’t have a word for this bone like we do (we call it a baculum), and so they used the word tsela, which refers to a sideways plank, beam, or board. In other words, it would be another euphemism in Scripture. A boner without a bone…

Further evidence for this view is that when Adam sees Eve, he says “Bone of my bones and flesh of my flesh!” The word for flesh there is basar, which is the most common euphemism in Scripture for the “meat” of a man. So when Adam cries out in excitement in Genesis 2:23 after seeing Eve for the first time “Bone of my bones and flesh of my flesh!” … well … you get the picture.

So is this Jewish Rabbi right? Maybe. Lots of Christian scholars think so. Check out this book by three Christians who think that Genesis 2:21-23 does in fact refer to the first boner in the Bible.

Personally, I am leaning away from this understanding, but I wanted to put it out there for your input. Weigh in with a comment below…

One reason not to reject this view, however, is because it is shocking.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: koriwhore ( )
Date: July 13, 2018 10:24AM

Monotheism is all about subjugating women to a patriarchal heirarchy. At least the Egyptians and Greeks worshipped Godesses along with Gods, before Monotheism.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: ificouldhietokolob ( )
Date: July 13, 2018 12:35PM

Make a claim, get shown the claim was completely wrong, so change the subject.

Yeah, that's a good tactic.

Not.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: smirkorama ( )
Date: July 12, 2018 10:05PM

ummmmm perhaps this could have something to do with the matter https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8wALvdgurB4

maybe it is because MORmONISM is only Quasi Christian and NOT legitimately / really Christian just as it has ALWAYS been a scam intended to rip off Christianity from MORmONISM'S very beginning, so as a standard matter of course FOR A SCAM, MORmONISM constantly emphasizes their most contrived aspects .......that facilitate its existence ......as a scam.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: Amyjo ( )
Date: July 12, 2018 10:07PM

Mormons consider themselves Christians.

It isn't rocket science to believe or not to believe in JC.

His grace is sufficient for the least of them. One LDS woman used to tell me when she gets to the other side she trusts all the differences between Mormonism and what's actualized will be sorted out. She's a cultural Mormon, but very much a Christian.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: snowball ( )
Date: July 13, 2018 10:28AM

I think it is straw man tactic to deflect legitimate criticism.

They beat the stuffing out of a weak argument that Mormons are not Christian in hopes that you will pay no attention to that man behind the curtain.

Ok. They are Christian--so what? In my mind, so are the Jehovah's Witnesses, Roman Catholics, the Westboro Baptist Church, and the Liberty University crowd. I've got my issues with what many of those folks teach as well. Just because they fit under some broad spectrum of Christian belief doesn't mean what they teach is true--same goes for Mormons.

I'm wiling to accept a broad definition of what qualifies as Christian, because I'm not a fundamentalist who believes that you have to accept Christ--the real Christ--or you'll go to hell.

What's more, it's the Mormons, who believe that unless you are baptized and confirmed in their Church and go through the temple ordinances, and endure to the end as a member in good standing Elohim, Jesushovah and Joe Smith will turn you back from the gates of the Celestial Kingdom. Go figure!

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: NormaRae ( )
Date: July 13, 2018 11:49AM

Because they don't know what Christians believe, especially about the trinity and the mercy of Christ. In fact, now they're using the term "mercy" a lot in a whole different way than what Christian churches accept. They are Christian by their own definition, not by how the mainstream defines it.

It's the same reason fundamentalist mormons call themselves mormon and it unnerves mainstream mormons. If mormons can call themselves Christian, plygs can call themselves mormon. And when it gets down to it, plygs practice mormonism closer to the original doctrine than the mainstream practitioners do.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: Nottelling ( )
Date: July 13, 2018 12:45PM

In the beginning the movement was called "The Way". If doctrine is to be believed, God doesn't change ever, so what he set in motion should be "the truth". I think from there people just took what they heard/read/feel/want and changed it and over time we have all these religions. And we have a tendency to either be leaders or followers so our ancestors fell into a leader or follower or a none and the rest is history or soon to be history.

Options: ReplyQuote
Go to Topic: PreviousNext
Go to: Forum ListMessage ListNew TopicSearchLog In


Screen Name: 
Your Email (optional): 
Subject: 
Spam prevention:
Please, enter the code that you see below in the input field. This is for blocking bots that try to post this form automatically.
 **     **  **         ********   ********    ******  
 **     **  **    **   **     **  **     **  **    ** 
 **     **  **    **   **     **  **     **  **       
 **     **  **    **   **     **  ********   **       
 **     **  *********  **     **  **     **  **       
 **     **        **   **     **  **     **  **    ** 
  *******         **   ********   ********    ******