Actually, I guess it would be religious disobedience in church. And it's not in church, but outside.

Specifically, he's advocating that if you think the three hour block is too long, skip as much of it as you deem appropriate.

Some quotes:
Maybe it’s just me, but I don’t understand the whining. Church attendance is voluntary, people. How long you spend there is up to you. Go when you’re ready and/or leave when you’ve had enough.
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Jeez, I had this stuff figured out before I got out of Primary. The only problem was that I wasn’t old enough yet to make it stick.
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The chaste hemlines you see in church today didn’t get there on their own. Heavenly Father didn’t decide to make a fashion change out of the blue. No, hems came up as cooperation went down.

This is also true of other changes, including those made to the previous split-meeting schedule, hairstyles, full-length garments, missionaries no longer having to wear fedoras, and Primary in the middle of the week.

Look, if people are uncooperative, changes will come. So might floods, pestilences, frogs, destroying angels and famine, but some things are worth bucking the odds.

https://www.sltrib.com/opinion/kirby/2018/07/22/kirby-you-can-chop-three/

"In theory there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice, there is. " Yogi Berra.

You have a good point, ("theory"), Bro' Jerry, but the practice is more difficult for some people. Family loyalties, habit, fear of alienation and even retaliation, the culture of conformity, to name only a few. So I counsel patience and understanding with such people. Self-persuasion, resolution, and action all work together and take time.

I was smoking (cigars, cigarettes, and grass), drinking heavily, and hadn't cracked a religious book in years, yet I still considered myself a Christian Scientist. When my parents called me on this, I told them I would join the "Mother Church," which I had never done, to get them off my back. So I stayed in that cult a while longer, as a "Jack Christian Scientist," you might say.
Plenty of people on this board in various stages of progress and liberation.

I'm just the messenger. It's Brother Kirby's theory. I bet Boyd K Packer is spinning in his grave, and other GAs are reaching for antacids.

--reaching for their antacids and angry that Kirby is too prominent to excommunicate.

I wonder how much influence his wife is having on him. She has been an ex-mormon for years. I heard she is attending another church but I don't know which one.

I know he has always been a rebel. It seems like he's starting to be a little more jack mormon now.

How good of a friend? Well, I trust him with my real name, and he's shared with me his desire that his wife--and others in his family--be left out of any public discussions. His marriage is just fine, thank you, and I believe--but don't quote me on that--he attends her church from time to time. I pointed this site out to him, and I guess he "lurked" for a while but said he had pretty much the "same information" in his mailbox every week.

His parents still live near mine, but as for other information, I'll keep some confidences. If all of the Mormons--or even a big percentage of them--held his views, there'd be a lot less friction, and the "Great Divide" spoken of in Utah would be much smaller.

A Kirby Classic: He was asked if he was worried about the church higher ups "coming down" on him, and he said, "No."

"Why?"

"Because they're old. I can beat them up."

No doubt that one's true, given his years of being a cop (which he tells he hated).



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/22/2018 06:20PM by SL Cabbie.

Utah needs more Kirby's (and Cabbies). I don't think he'd care if he was exe'd, but he'd make a huge splash if it happened. The church is afraid of the truth. The church is afraid of Kirby.

He goes to church because he's comfortable there. Does he think it's bullshit? Not sure...maybe...I know he thinks the blind obedience deal regardless of how ridiculous or stupid it is, is bullshit....but he's one twisted dude who loves what he does. Glad to count him as a friend.

Brother Of Jerry Wrote:
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> Specifically, he's advocating that if you think
> the three hour block is too long, skip as much of
> it as you deem appropriate.
,,...........

Many of us here have deemed it appropriate to skip the entire block for many moons now and are much happier having made that choice!

Love this.....from Shinehah:

<Many of us here have deemed it appropriate to skip the entire block for many moons now and are much happier having made that choice!>

OMG, the three-hour-extremely-boring-prison-sentence, is there anything worse?......especially with bored, antsy, starving toddlers, a husband in the bishopric who is dreamily falling asleep up on the stands in front of the whole darn ward!, and teens enjoying a chat with their girlfriends on twitter?

Oh, such pleasant nightmares!

presleynfactsrock Wrote:
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> OMG, the three-hour-extremely-boring-prison-sentence, is there anything worse?

Oh yes...the days BEFORE the three-hour block.

Priesthood - 8:00 am

Sunday School - 10:30 am

Sacrament Meeting - 4:00 pm

The three-hour block was a blessing.

Yes but we only went to Sunday School and priesthood.

They gave the sacrament at sunday school so Dad never saw a reason to go back to sacrament meeting.

On the other hand there were all the weekly meetings. Primary, Relief Society and Mutual.

Don't forget the Sunday night firesides!

Went to one....there was no fire....what a ripoff....never went back...true story.

I attended about six or so.....with the most inspiring fireside liar of the time twice as the speaker.....Paul H. Dunn. He sure did bask in the glory of all the attention his tall-tales gathered. (corny, but still I'll say it.....why he was nothing less than THE Paul Bunyon of Mormondumb).



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/23/2018 12:29AM by presleynfactsrock.

Lethbridge Reprobate Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Went to one....there was no fire....what a
> ripoff....never went back...true story.

There WAS a fire at the first fireside I ever attended. It was held at the home of a bishop who was living in a wealthy mission president's house until the mission president's sentence was up. There were fireplaces in almost every room of the house, even a couple of the bathrooms, and they opened sliding wooden doors that separated a formal living room from a large study so that the youth from the entire stake could fit. Fires were going in both rooms in which the even took place and in in a few others, where we were served refreshments afterward, including hot cocoa and s'mores that we made by roasting the marshmallows over the fire.

I assumed all firesides were like that one. I felt very ripped-off when I attended my second fireside and learned the truth.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/23/2018 07:20AM by scmd1.

I have the solution to all the church’s problems. Bring back the fedoras. Well, that and some teensy weensy changes.

Bwahaha. Skip a meeting and suddenly you have an extra calling. If you dont care after that, you get called to library. You WILL attend.

He's right, of course. Any Mormon can do what they want, like stay only for sacrament, or skip priesthood/RS, etc. The problem is, Mormons are basically instructed to never think for themselves, and always imagine having to jump through this hoop, or over that hurdle, when they actually do not have to. Not if they take ownership of their lives, certainly. You'd be hard pressed to find anyone who really luuuuuvs to sit quietly in church all day, particularly in Mormon meetings that notoriously do not offer any sort of spiritual boost.

How about this Bro Kirby?

Maybe it’s just me, but I don’t understand the tithing. Church tithing is voluntary, people. How much you spend there is up to you. Pay what you’re ready to, stop when you’ve had enough.

LOL! What another bunch of Kirby crap.

Pretending that there are no consequences for not fulfilling your duties to the church is dishonest. Don't pay a full tithe? You are not in full membership as you don't get a temple recommend and you have to account for that at the end of the year in your "voluntary" settlement with the bishop.

Don't attend all your meetings? Expect to be asked why not and soft coercion to comply. Expect to be the ward project. Expect to be talked about openly as a problem in the ward.

Don't fulfill all your obligations to the church? Expect family members to be counseled to get your compliance or to distance themselves from you.

It's true, everything is "voluntary." It's true that for most members, there are consequences.

He didn't mention simplicity, or common sense, or individuality...

Skirting your calling (names), or even your skirt.

Calling off a mission - even before being called on one.

He talks about taking time back (but forgets WHAT FOR) and only mentions Sundays [he forgets mormonism ISN'T one day a weak for 3+ (wasted, useless, boring) hours].

Why didn't he write this article in primary?

He only follows the rules when he has to, and fails to make his own (argument, and rules.

M@t