Since I have a dear family member going to a foreign mission that seems scary, this article posted tonight in the SLTrib is horrible. TSCC DOES NOT CARE

https://www.sltrib.com/religion/2018/08/30/lds-church-says-it-wasnt/

gemini Wrote:
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> Since I have a dear family member going to a
> foreign mission that seems scary, this article
> posted tonight in the SLTrib is horrible. TSCC
> DOES NOT CARE
>
> https://www.sltrib.com/religion/2018/08/30/lds-chu
> rch-says-it-wasnt/
They had the same attitude towards child rape. Had their rapist been a Penis Holding MORmON we never would have heard about it.
Maybe quut representing an abusive Doomsday Sex CULT that forces its members to sing the praises of a rapist?
Just a thought.

ChurchCo cares!! They care deeply, truely!!!

Both parts of the story are full of how much they care!!! But they care for the church's reputation, not for the well being of the missionaries. But you can't have it both ways, you know! They have made their choices and the business interests come first.

The articles reek of this attitude! All the new rules are for the protection of ChurchCo, not the missionary.

And it rankles me no end that they talk about "Surveys"!!!

Where in the bible, or even in the BofM, does it talk about the members of the church being surveyed for data so that the leaders will have input on which to base, or modify, a decision?

If I were religious, and a member of a church that I believed was led by ghawd and there was a prophet to whom ghawd gave necessary revelations so that the progress of the church would reflect well on this ghawd, why in the fugg would I expect to have to rely on surveys!!!

They are inventing rules that are both insensitive and stupid, and the continued push to protect the church over its members will end up costing them. But they are rich and can afford it.

There is of course a parallel between this thread and those on the Catholic Church.

In both cases you start with a hierarchy that insists it is led by God and wields moral superiority over the members. The clergy meet, and are free to discuss sexual topics with, individual children on a frequent basis. When "incidents" occur, the leaders attempt to clean up the damage in the way that best protects the institution. Often that means suppressing scandals, sometimes it entails the victim's character assassination as well. And when it comes to the needs of women both generally and when they have been hurt, the empowered men (it is always men) are even more inept than usual.

What people often (try to) forget is that institutions matter. They shape the incentives that each leader perceives and hence determine the broad outlines of individual and corporate behavior. That's why the patterns of abuse and coverup continue; it is why apostles and cardinals, COB minions and Vatican bureaucrats, pretend innocence, avert their eyes, and postpone time and again any substantive remedial policies.

It is at that point that leaders become personally culpable. When men (or women) accept top positions in organizations, they assume responsibility for what happens under their leadership. If they fulfill that responsibility by doing what is right and timely rectifying that which goes wrong, they are behaving ethically. But when they willfully chose not to correct significant moral failures quickly and completely, they become complicit in all subsequent injuries. They are no longer merely irresponsible: now, they are guilty.

Maybe it was churches that invented Kick-the-Can...?

Or at least perfected it. . .

These stories show the naivity of people who are from Utah about Latin American Countries. The LDS leadership are obviously in the dark and think everything is as Rosey as Alpine or Lehi on a sunny day. Mexico is a violent nation run by drug dealers. All sorts of people go missing all the time. There's all kinds of crime constantly everyone is after each others stuff and beggars all over the place. I know lots of people down South and have relatives down there and hear these things all the time.

For these girly girls to expect angels to protect them while surrounded by thugs on every side everyday is pretty dumb. Everyone (especially religious girls who are easy prey) needs to keep their guard on high alert when traveling outside of this nation.

You might find it interesting that the US has higher rates of rape, firearm murders, total crimes per 1000 people, etc. than Mexico does. Or you might deny the facts and continue to stick your head in the sand. Up to you.

http://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/compare/Mexico/United-States/Crime

Just some random thoughts:

This is only comparing against 1 country that is not the US.

The violent crime rate in those comparison stats are higher for Mexico than the US.

I also wonder about how well other crimes are reported in countries when their could be a perception there is a less effective police force and judiciary? Less reporting means less crimes show up in the stats.

I also wonder whether the stats for the US as a whole are possibly not reflective of the parts of the US where an average LDS girl lived prior to then serving her mission.

We also know that missionaries tend to work in the poorer parts of the cities they are in, where crime rates are typically higher than perhaps the nations average.

Yes, 1 country vs. the US. The 1 country the poster above called a violent nation run by drug dealers, where there is "all kinds of crime constantly."

And while Mexico does lose in some parts of the comparison, so does the US. The thing is, crime rates are more similar than different overall. In the US, as in Mexico, there is a majority of good, honest, kind, law-abiding citizens -- and areas of high crime and poverty (which often go together). You're about six times more likely to get raped in the US than in Mexico, and you're about 8 times more likely to suffer some kind of "violent crime" in Mexico than in the US; but you're more than twice as likely to die from a gun in the US than in Mexico.

I wasn't putting down the church's lack of responsibility or sense in sending largely ignorant and innocent young girls to very dangerous parts of the world...just that it's also dangerous to send them to parts of the US, and the whole "Mexicans are all criminals and drug dealers!" is such a pile of bullshit that it needs to be pointed out when it's used.

Thanks for the comments, Darren.

ificouldhietokolob Wrote:
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> You're about six times more likely to get raped in
> the US than in Mexico, and you're about 8 times
> more likely to suffer some kind of "violent crime"
> in Mexico than in the US; but you're more than
> twice as likely to die from a gun in the US than
> in Mexico.
>

Just for some perspective on the rape/sexual assault stats for Mexico. Not that the US is a paradise and a sanctuary for women either, but just throwing some stats out is only part of a picture normally. The devil is always in the detail.


https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/when-rape-culture-meets-impunity-how-the-mexican_us_5907887ae4b084f59b49fb8e

"It is no secret that victims of sexual assault in Mexico rarely report their abuse for fear of social and institutional backlash. Mistrust of the justice system is a predominant reality, especially among sectors of the population that would most need to have recourse to it."

"Statistics show that 44 percent of Mexican women will experience some form of sexual violence during their lifetime. Violent crimes against women are ubiquitous ― that’s a hard fact to deny. And yet, an estimated 91 percent of these crimes go unreported."

> "Statistics show that 44 percent of
> Mexican women will experience some
> form of sexual violence during their
> lifetime. Violent crimes against women
> are ubiquitous ― that’s a hard fact to
> deny. And yet, an estimated 91 percent
> of these crimes go unreported."
>

Having kept in touch with the Native Mexican low-income population for the last 40 years, I won't quibble with the sentiment expressed in the above quote.

But what has me scratching my head is the 'reliance' on "statistics show..." in relation to "...an estimated 91% of these crimes go unreported."

So where are they getting the "statistics show..."? What is the base that supports "...an estimated 91% of these crimes go unreported,"?

What do the gatherers of the "statistics" consider to be sufficient data on which to base their "estimate"?


But I do share the belief that Mexican males are significantly more atavistic when it comes to sex (primal, almost!) 1st World males have the same hot juices running through their systems, but they have more controls put in place by our 1st World cultures. And when you add pulque... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pulque

elderolddog Wrote:
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> So where are they getting the "statistics
> show..."? What is the base that supports "...an
> estimated 91% of these crimes go unreported,"?

Oh, that comes from the 95% of statistics that are entirely made up.
I thought everyone knew that...? :)

I've no doubt that under-reporting of sexual assault is an issue in Mexico. It's also an issue in the US. How much is unreported? People can guess...maybe (just maybe) even estimate with some degree (less than 100% of course) of reliability. But they can't declare things like "91% go unreported." Not if they're being honest, anyway.

And let's not forget, you can triple Mexico's rate and still be twice as likely to be raped in the US...

“The first traumatic event was my assault,” Junca says. “And the second traumatic event was the reaction of this institution that I trusted. And the latter seems to have had more devastating effects on my life than the actual sexual assault."



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/30/2018 10:01AM by babyloncansuckit.

Okay. I should NOT have read that.

All my fears are founded. LDS Corp has nothing remotely productive in place for children including missionaries. They have half measures and STILL place missionaries in DO NOT TRAVEL areas.

WTF???

This is beyond ridiculous, it is flirting with danger just to flirt with danger and obey stupid rules like you can't call your parents multiple times after being raped????

But is it their battle. Everything is a battle for this persecution complex corporation.

"His wife was more understanding, Cicotte remembers, comparing Cicotte’s experience to being wounded in battle and needing to recover."

Did I send my daughter to war? I guess so because I sent her to a place considered very dangerous by the U.S. Government.

Wonder whatever happened to the two female missionaries who were gang raped in Africa a few years back?
They were walking along a busy highway and got pulled into the bushes.

One of the girls was from California, the other was a native.
At the time the MP said they wanted to stay and serve out their mission.
How crazy can things get?

The church is irresponsible in sending young women to those countries in the first place.

Sexual assault is horrible and only one of many terrible things that a youth might have happen to him/her on a Morontology (MormonCult) CHILD ABUSIVE MISSION.

and it is not just out of the US. LDSInc doesn't care PERIOD. They sent my Grandmother to New Orleans and DC. She had lived a very Mormon insolated life and had no business being in those places. Hell, she had no business being out of her retirement community. She was robbed and beaten in both places. You would have thought she learned a lesson the first time but nooooo. They told her she was needed, and where, and since they were "inspired" she packed her bag and got another beating for it.

Sue the fuk out of this goddam cult

..question:

Why was the Glen Pace story never released to the general membership?

...answer:

Because the Church never had any intention of addressing it; either true or false, internally or legally.

Image, status and PR reign supreme. Besides, the Church either viewed them as non-threatening (legally), or that the members would never believe it. Win-win. Case closed.

So what's a missionary to do if the only person responsible for the safety and welfare doesn't care or is extremely negligent?

I am talking about the mission president.

Is there a form of church oversight that will kick in so the lives and health of missionaries are not jeopardized?

Almost 30 years ago, I feared that I would be on my own to solve problems as a missionary. I shared these with my local leaders that were pushing me to serve. The rebuffed my queries and made me feel like a fool for asking such questions.

"Nonsense. You won't be alone and you'll have a mission president to guide you along. Messy, you need to have faith that the Lord has chosen the best people to run the church and lead his children." I fell for the trap.

At my very first zone conference, my mission president made it very clear to us. "Now elders and sisters. We have assigned you an area with very clear boundaries. If you find yourself going out of your area for any reason, don't bother to call me. You just keep on going. I won't accept any collect calls. You're on your own."

And that's how I felt as I served a mission; "On My Own" for the next two years. There's a tremendous fallacy of church members believing that a person of authority is going to do what's best for you.