I was shown how to use the search function correctly, and I found my post from late April to prove I am not a troll:

https://www.exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,2106491,2106508#msg-2106508

I was not referring to being Christ returning, but I see the joke, and it is funny.

That said, you can read my post to know why I originally came here, but now I am here for a totally different reason. I have the atheists to thank for moving me to a base of reason instead of belief years ago, and I plan to stay and learn more from whoever wants to reason with me. It is a good place to be. The moderators have been very fair to me. Thank you.

However, be advised Greg Olson's ideas is based on Jesus appearing to Joseph Smith but was later deceived by the fallen sons of God. I believe he changed his assumptions that Joseph Smith and his family were into occult powers since the day he was born. Therefore, Joseph Smith used a crystal stone and a hat behind a curtain to hide what he was doing to create the Book of Mormon by occult powers. His heavenly friends, I assume, manufactured the gold plates and took them back to fool everyone in Mormonism. He knew he was a scammer from the beginning to receive power, control, and sex and more sex. Damn! He wanted so much power, he wanted to be the President of the United States, and he thought he could do it with the help of his heavenly friends. He was deadly wrong.

Enter Brigham Young with a practical mind to follow Joseph Smith as his best friend, so to speak, believing less in the miracles and more in reason, but committed to follow the dreams of Joseph Smith as though they were from God. Then enter James Strang, an occultist like Joseph Smith, to hijack the Church from Brigham Young. The Mormon Church is a diamond mind of interesting things to study in the past.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Strang


That said, we deceive ourselves by irrational feelings mixed with the mind. I can't confirm it, but I believe Greg Olson changed his mind, and he eventually confronted the leader of the website, and he believes Joseph Smith was born into the occult and never saw Jesus. I would love to meet Greg Olson to confirm the truth, but I can't find him. Therefore, I will have to settle for a rational assumption based on the supposed accurate facts at NCCG in the historical Mormon archives about him and his excommunication 1 year after he joined.

Note: assumptions are never "rational."
So "rational assumption" is an oxymoron.

Just sayin'.

Everyone, please ignore this guy so he goes away. He is like a poor man's Denver Snuffer.

Aaron Wrote:
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> Everyone, please ignore this guy so he goes away.
> He is like a poor man's Denver Snuffer.

This post proves your mind and ideas are caught in the over/under pyramids of the occult powers. Study your post. You are telling others what to do. It is irrational because you don't have the power to tell people what to do. We are equal to each other, and let's reason together, rather than using the irrational over/under principle of power. The moderators are the only ones with the power in here, and they been very fair to me, in my opinion.

It doesn't, actually.
It's possible he just doesn't like your posts.
That doesn't involve the occult.

And as a matter of fact, he *does* have the power to tell people what to do -- he just did it.

What he doesn't have is the power to force people to do what he tells them.

Which is something different altogether.

See? The fruits of apostasy. Hie is so overcome with the influence of Satan that he can’t even reason with such a discerning mind as Anon the Great ;-)

OK. I get the joke, lol

Now let.s define power and where it comes from. Did Aaron need to involve everyone else on the board, or is the simpler decision to stay away from my posts or threads?

He does have the choice to speak his mind how ever he wants to. That is a very true point you make. But I am suggesting he does not have the power to do what he wants done.

But I am interested in reason and not power. so to me, all physical mortal power is from God through the sun, and I have power to reason and think. These are very deep but simple ideas to think about. I think, and therefore, I am, Or if a man thinketh in his heart, so is he. So I believe, hope, etc. That is me. I am reason. Power is Yahweh's not, mine. I believe that idea is faultless, and we can discuss it further. Poke rational holes in it, and you will change my mind.

I should add an idea to be clear: If a person thinks with the body and not a rational mind, the person is a body and not a rational thought. I want to be a rational living thought inside a body and not body living in irrational thoughts. I can enjoy the flesh and emotions like anyone else. But I have emotions, but I am not the emotions. I have a mind, but I am not the mind. I choose to be rational thought that governs the mind that then governs the body. It is very simple.

Bodies can think?
You should alert the press, that'll be news!

I am learning just like everyone else, but my posting comes from habits of thoughts that are changing, because I didn't mean what came out with the words. Words have meaning, and I confused mind and thoughts. We all have minds, bodies, emotions, will. They are all pretty much the same in everyone. The difference is in the ideas. The ideas go into the mind, and we believe them or reject them.

I am not smarter or dumber than anyone here. I applied the scientific methods to my thoughts. And it works to develop assumptions in a system of thought that can cut through the lies of Mormonism. It is a system that everyone uses on the outside that can be applied to the inside thoughts. My personal task all of my life has been to remove the dumb ideas and dumb assumptions with the help of the atheists to change all my thinking to place reason first and belief second.

We should do not believe irrational ideas. It is not complicated, but a person must be aware of what thoughts they have chosen to believe based on trusting other people in authority and not valid facts to formulate the beliefs. Plus, all the facts must be considered to formulate the assumptions, not just selected facts to justify what we already believe. The mind will do that automatically without our choice. These are verifiable facts by anyone who watches their thoughts carefully.

As much as I’m dazzled by your brilliance, the BoM is a mash-up of 19th century religious memes and clumsy plagiarism. No occult required.

The Smiths were big into folk magic, which is where Priesthood blessings come from. Consecrated oil, very occult. If those blessings worked for you, it was because the occult works. Which pagans knew long before Joe.

Consecrated oil is not very occult.

The Church of England uses Consecrated Oil.

http://www.anglicancatholic.org/oil-and-water?class=greenlink

And note Olive Oil is Mediterranean.

If it's hallowed, is because tis from tropical climates.

God love those blessed lil olives!

babyloncansuckit Wrote:
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> As much as I’m dazzled by your brilliance, the
> BoM is a mash-up of 19th century religious memes
> and clumsy plagiarism. No occult required.
>
> The Smiths were big into folk magic, which is
> where Priesthood blessings come from. Consecrated
> oil, very occult. If those blessings worked for
> you, it was because the occult works. Which pagans
> knew long before Joe.

I believe no one is brilliant or stupid, but we believe in smart or stupid ideas. So I don't consider myself brilliant, but I have controlled my mind all of my life to embrace good ideas and discard bad ideas by reasoning through the assumptions and valid evidence. If possible, I depend on first-hand evidence; but if that is not possible, I will make make a calculated choice to believe the assumptions I create, like I did with Greg Olson, but will change the assumptions if the evidence forces me to change my mind. I am in control of the ideas I believe, not the evidence. There is too much fake evidence to leave my mind to the evidence only. Case in point is the salamander letter or the Book of Abraham evidence. It is phony evidence, so I don't believe it. The evidence must be validated first.

I use a mental process with silent prayer and meditation techniques outside of confusing churches. The scientific method I use with thoughts on the inside, not just with physical observation on the outside that we already knows works. It is the identical scientific process applied to thoughts or ideas.

Thus, these ideas of yours are very rational from the assumptions you believe in. But they don't appear to embrace the stories of the three witnesses. The witnesses either made up the gold plate claims with all the 13 men in collusion, or Joseph Smith and the sons of God deceived all of them. I use Occam's razor principle and believe Joseph Smith and his family single-handedly deceived everyone by the occult power he used. It is the simplest explanation for Mormonism, and it fits a zillion more facts than any other theory, including your assumptions.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Whitmer

They saw the plates with their “spiritual eyes”. How Joe pulled this off I don’t know. Perhaps hypnosis, just round up enough people who will go into trance. Or some kind of plant hallucinogen like properly treated datura. Or threats to reveal their dirty little secrets. Maybe this is where secret polygamy came in.

My point is the witnesses were hand-picked by Joe specifically because he could control them.

yes, you are using a good quote based on your valid reasoning. The problem is all the facts. 13 men testify they all felt and handled the gold plates. I use Occam's razor. The simplest explanation is the Smith family use occult powers working with the fallen sons of God to create the plates and make them disappear, just like James Strang and the brass plate.

People assume that just because a powerful miracle appears that the ideas must also be true. That is the false assumptions, As an analogy, some beliefs are based on valid reasoning of 1000 valid facts. Mine are based on 100,000 facts, including modern day facts outside of Mormonism to makes sense of the world we live in.

I don't regard Brigham Young as all so much a close friend of J Smith, but rather a strategist. He wanted the power when JS died, and made sure he rose to the top - the people needed a leader to fill in the vacuum made by Smith's death. Brigham was willing to murder and plunder to become top dog. He tried to have one of Joseph's sons kill himself, accidentally, by giving him a hand held weapon that had a faulty spring mechanism. When Emma learned of his duplicity she was livid, as any mother would be.

The power struggle ensued between Young and Emma following her husband's death. All the material things Joseph amassed didn't belong to the church when he died they belonged to him. Emma stood to inherit rather than TSCC. Brigham lost the lawsuit, bigily.

When Brigham died he in turn owned most of the wealth of TSCC. He'd amassed a great fortune, beyond what Joseph possessed when he met his early demise. He coveted what Joseph had. That was his attraction to the religion IMO. Like many televangelists do today ie, get rich off their followers.

You make some very valid points about Brigham and his lust for power. But his beliefs are from Joseph Smith, tweaked with twisted reason, Perhaps I should change the word from friend to something else. What word would you use to better describe Brigham Young and his relationship to Joseph Smith?

Keep in mind I am basing his views on what he said about Joseph Smith and the book of Mormon. He believed Mormonism was the most rational ideas on earth, considering the idea of the pre-earth life was removed from Christianity by the third or fourth century, The occult has always believed in it. Brigham Young never told of his personal "burning in the bosom" feeling in the Book of Mormon, but what I read in his writings is twisted reasoning. If someone shows me I am wrong, I will change my current assumptions about Brigham Young and his Book of Mormon testimony, which is not emotional but twisted reasoning.

He used the reasoning that Joseph Smith was a prophet when he joined the Church, and he was still a prophet when he died to remove the question that he was a fallen prophet started by the three witnesses over polygamy. THey believed in the Doctrine and Covenants first edition that said the Lord wanted them to have one wife, when Joseph Smith was enjoying many women since 1832, typical of an occultist.

Emma Smith followed James Strang until he was murdered in 1856. She followed Strang instead of Brigham Young because he believed in the same occult principles of her husband.

Brigham actually burned down the Navoo temple and blamed the Strangites. The truth is like a Hollywood movie. But most of you may know this already. Everyone LDS knows Emma Smith did not follow Brigham Young, but the LDS members are not told about the brass plates of Laban given to James Strang by supernatural power.

The cover-up is amazing. Just keep them busy at their church work, their jobs to make money, and family commitments. There is no time to study the past. See how it works? Pretty clever strategy from the top, isn't it?

"The Mormon Church is a diamond mind of interesting things to study in the past."

I very much agree. Whether mormonism is true or not it made a great deal of impact in manifest destiny and fulfilling the vision of Thomas Jefferson of a nation of Anglo Saxon farmers stretching far into the west all the way to California, where communities would develop and create their own laws and services. The extreme poverty of Europe would be forgotten because of the vast abundant land. But nothing was for certain and the Indians certainly caused trouble. Up until the railroad 1869 it was thought that the great planes were a desolate waste. And The great Basin was also thought to be an unusable waste. But with these early pioneers it was found that the land was all good, and up for the taking. And with the help of the Mormons taming the Indians, westward travel came to be and We now have this wonderful nation and great industries.

anono this week Wrote:
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> And
> with the help of the Mormons taming the Indians...

Wow, that's one warped sense of US history there.
Seriously.

It was more than the Mormons who were pushing westward.

It is said of Joseph Smith that had he lived to lead the migration of Mormons he wouldn't have stopped in Utah. He'd have kept going to the coast of California, with the warmer climate and colorful terrain.

Mormon pioneers did by and large settle large swaths of Idaho, Utah, Wyoming, Montana, Nevada, Arizona. So there is that.

“with the help of the Mormons taming the Indians“

Mormons - Doing America’s dirty work since 1844.

OK, I read your post but nowhere in it do you say you will return. So how is that evidence? Why do you keep saying you promised to return? I sounds silly.

I can see how that would look weird. The moderators deleted my last post. You can contact them privately to confirm it, but please respect the moderators, and don't ask what I wrote beyond the fact that I said I would return. Thanks!

Oh, gawd. Just shoot me. And Greg Olson. Actually, Greg first. It's only fair.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/17/2018 09:46PM by Brother Of Jerry.

Ayn Rand wrote a book about him.

Who is Greg Olson?

No one got that?

Perhaps not funny.

Hahahaha. Me and John Galt thought it was pretty funny!

Thanks for saving me on that one, Dagny!

I still don't get it. I barely get the Dagny and John Galt references. Back in the great Middle School Sorting, kids are either impressed by Tolkien or Rand. I chose Tolkien. His fake world was more believable than the BoM, even with talking trees in it.

Greg Olson appears to be a Scandinavian equivalent of Godot. We will wait forever.

I'm a voracious reader, so I've read both authors. I prefer Tolkien except when a particular conversation calls for a cryptic allusion.

John Galt is a character in Atlas Shrugged. He doesn't appear for a long time, but before then the question "Who is John Galt?" arises mysteriously in the text time and again.

What I'm suggesting here is that Greg Olson is a mythical person who may, or may not, eventually show up. AtG seems to believe Olson is a luminary of some sort, so perhaps one day he'll suddenly uncloak and share his monumental character and prophetic insights with us as John Galt does in Atlas Shrugged.

Just a silly joke, one that the always erudite Dagny got.

Uttered by sweaty men, doing sweaty things, "Who is John Galt?"

'Fess up, EOD. You asked Dagny, didn't you!

Why would I ask Dagny about her final lover?

John and I go way back! I thoroughly enjoyed both AS and TF! I nominate me for iconoclast of the week...

I've figured out your IRL identity. You are Alan Greenspan!

I was wondering where you absconded to after blowing up the world economy in 2008!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/18/2018 08:44PM by Lot's Wife.

Hahaha.

Lot's Wife: Thanks for all kinds of chortles and ah-ha posts!

I've been dagny here long before I figured out Ayn and Greenspan maybe missed a few important points (to say the least).

I do credit Ayn Rand for helping me move from collective thinking to individual thinking at a time when I was trying to find my ex-Mormon self. There are several things about her and her little cult-ish fans that I find troublesome.

I credit Greenspan for being one to inspire me to invest heavily when I was young. I do like his wife still

I'll keep the character name because, after all, Dagny was a strong woman and she got her some Galt. :-)


As for this Greg Olson, I don't know who in the hell he is supposed to be. The only one I can think of with a Mormon connection was that artist that has prints common in Mormon homes. Gag.