Recovery Board  : RfM
Recovery from Mormonism (RfM) discussion forum. 
Go to Topic: PreviousNext
Go to: Forum ListMessage ListNew TopicSearchLog In
Posted by: auntsukey ( )
Date: November 10, 2018 08:14PM

Posted on a TBM friend's FB page:

"We're being asked what help can be given....our best assessment right now is to make a contribution to fast offerings. The help will come from you through the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. Any suggestions or lists of rental homes and apartments in our area is going to be appreciated! Thank you so much! Love from Paradise."

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: Amyjo ( )
Date: November 10, 2018 08:22PM

They'll start from the worthiest members and work their way down. Everyone is expected to be a willing giver, however, to fast offerings.

I'd start with the Red Cross and other emergency assistance programs where you know the money is going to go where it's needed the most.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: Hockeyrat ( )
Date: November 10, 2018 08:30PM

What?, just when you thought it couldn’t get any more obnoxious!
What’s wrong with People donating directly themselves?
The church isn’t giving, the people who give them money, ala “ fast offerings”
A way for the church to get tons of money, give a tiny amount to the fire victims and getthe credit themselves
Sick to take advantage of a disaster to their benefit
I’d be nice if a brave soul could publish that out in the open
( the original piece, that doesn’t doesn’t show this site)

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: Concerned Citizen 2.0 ( )
Date: November 11, 2018 10:43AM

"What’s wrong with People donating directly themselves?"

...well, some of those collected (extorted, guilted) monies will help with the LDS marketing campaign, to include TV spots, radio ads, and, of course t-shirt production...maybe some logo'd water bottles also.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: dagny ( )
Date: November 11, 2018 11:07AM

So true.

They don't like their members using other charitable organizations (aka competition).

Every dime the members give that wasn't through LDS is less credit the church can take for promotion and tax credit.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: Chicken N. Backpacks ( )
Date: November 10, 2018 08:33PM

Last year in our little corner of SoCal where a bunch of houses burned, a couple of guys started out by getting breakfast burritos for firefighters, and a few days later they had a big center set up at our small country store with tons of donated food, equipment, clothes, cash, and a volunteer army of guys who went and helped people fell burned trees, sift though destroyed homes for heirlooms and get set up in temporary housing.

No church involved.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: Lot's Wife ( )
Date: November 10, 2018 08:35PM

There is no way the church could help here.

They already have money and even a fund for disaster relief. Rather than tap into those sources, however, they want to raise additional money, money that they will control. By the time the geriatrics in SLC approve the usage of the fast offerings, the fires will have been contained. Ultimately only a fraction of the offerings will get to the areas where it could be helpful.

This is about as cynical a maneuver as one could imagine. Bravo, Q15.

Bravo.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: GNPE ( )
Date: November 10, 2018 08:55PM

where was this published?

was it directly from ChurchCo?

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: auntsukey ( )
Date: November 10, 2018 09:14PM

I wasn't sure if it was an official church directive or not.

My sense was that someone asked their friends or family in Paradise how they could help and this was the response. Then that message had been shared to the poster's FB friends. So it sounds like someone asked a higher up in the Church (because god forbid one would rely on one's own judgement!) and this was the message they got.

I find it kind of sad that someone couldn't simply follow their own instincts and make a decision to help without consulting the church.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: dagny ( )
Date: November 10, 2018 09:15PM

Wherever it came from --- just ugh!

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: anono this week ( )
Date: November 10, 2018 09:18PM

I seem to remember this happening before when there was a tsunami in south east Asia about 12-15 years ago, they said over the pulpit to be more generous with the fast offerings because the church was going to send the money over right away. Come to find out it never got sent, piles of money piled up, and people were still starving. Shortly after the tithing receipts started to be printed "all donations are to be used at our discretion."

It was really embarrassing.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: Human ( )
Date: November 11, 2018 11:14AM

anono this week Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "all donations are to be used at our
> discretion."

I know no one wants to hear it, but this is also true of the American Red Cross. Specific disasters are used to do fundraising, but the funds are not necessarily allocated to the specific disaster that prompted the donation.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: moremany ( )
Date: November 11, 2018 04:01PM

Human Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> anono this week Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> "all donations are to be used at our discretion."
>
> I know no one wants to hear it, but this is also true of the American Red Cross. Specific disasters are used to do fundraising,
but the funds are not necessarily allocated to the specific disaster that prompted the donation.

The Red Cross Says what it is doing. And they DO-lots.

LDS Tithing receipts say things like 'Building Fund', 'Missionary Fund', 'Disaster Relief', fast 'offering' [you "offer" it to the 'church'; they don't offer it to anybody], scripture chasing, etc.

THEN it says - after families/ individually give/ "offer" millions and millions of dollars, every year - those funds you gave, for these specific categories, will go into one fund.

Dishonest 101: Mormon JS wrote the book on it
LDS 'tithing' is focused on taking, not giving

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: GNPE1 ( )
Date: November 11, 2018 12:02AM

ChurchCo doesn't care.

They don't care about Honesty or Kindness.

They don't care about families or even about dishonest divorces against doubters.

They do care about image & money, the 15. & most others care about their families & close friends & their business contacts.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: AnonInCali ( )
Date: November 12, 2018 02:57AM

Paradise is over 500 miles north of Malibu. It is a small community comprised mostly of the working class.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: Alan XL ( )
Date: November 11, 2018 04:39AM

OK. I live in Australia but my understanding is that the fires are located in one of the USs richest areas.

I was reading that some Stars were having trouble getting their staff to relocate their horses.

Do they really need donations?

Just asking.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: The other lily ( )
Date: November 11, 2018 10:14AM

The income levels vary. 12% below poverty line. Median income about 32k, that's decent but not extraordinary for CA.many are retired and not relying only on that income but on savings.

CaitLynn Jenner lost her house, but she was not inside Paradise. The fire is massive and affects many communities.

Some have insurance. Some don't.

Their biggest challenge isn't necessarily financial for all, but finances will help.

For example,they just lost their customary medical care. They need to relocate to a place they can get a doctor.Just one more example because I don't want to preach.

Basically entire communities were destroyed including all their support systems. When you don't have a community you can't rely on each other any more for things like day care or elder care and they now need to pay more.

So yeah, in short some are quite wealthy. Others not. All are challenged somehow.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: FiveAcres ( )
Date: November 11, 2018 02:19PM

I imagine a lot of people who live near Paradise are like a family connection who died a few years back. He left my sister (who basically acted as family support to him in his last few years despite no genetic connection) a small property with a single wide and two nearly derelict cars. She is reasonably well off and the property was worth so little to her that she hadn't gotten around to figuring out what to do with it. It has probably burned to the ground.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: Concerned Citizen 2.0 ( )
Date: November 11, 2018 11:05AM

...my brother is a Battalion Chief with Cal Fire. He is constantly re-deloyed to the different state hot -spots from his home base in East County San Diego. The one thing he tells me is that in a lot of these fires, the State preventative funding, for whatever reason, has been redirected, or used for other state programs. These fires are repeated on a seasonal basis, or it would seem. He also tells me that the State's budget for firebreaks, clearing of dead trees and vegetation, and the like are nearly depleted, or even non-existant at this point. So, I suppose we can expect more of these events???.........bad.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: Kathleen ( )
Date: November 11, 2018 11:30AM

Concerned Citizen 2.0 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ...my brother is a Battalion Chief with Cal Fire.
> He is constantly re-deloyed to the different state
> hot -spots from his home base in East County San
> Diego. The one thing he tells me is that in a lot
> of these fires, the State preventative funding,
> for whatever reason, has been redirected, or used
> for other state programs. These fires are
> repeated on a seasonal basis, or it would seem.
> He also tells me that the State's budget for
> firebreaks, clearing of dead trees and vegetation,
> and the like are nearly depleted, or even
> non-existant at this point. So, I suppose we can
> expect more of these events???.........bad.


(From the "Oroville" thread)


A few years ago, I had to check on a facility in the hinterlands of Butte County. I and a coworker drove through what seemed like endless tunnels of overgrown, dry brush to get there. It would have been too dense to walk through and hard to imagine deer getting through it.

I remembered my dad hacking through such brush to rescue a lost boy. By the time Pop reached him, the boy’s clothes and shoes we completely sheared off him by dense manzanita.

And that’s what I was looking at—-brush that you’d need an ax to get out of. It was scary. I wondered how Butte County got away with that—-where there were homes and even residential-care facilities down dirt roads deep in tinder. How did they get the permits?

I commented to my coworker that if there were a fire, they’d never get out alive. I was never so glad to get back on the main highway.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: GNPE ( )
Date: November 11, 2018 03:43PM

Where I live, most of the offending brush, weeds, etc, are adjacent to the right-of-way, thus the responsibility of the property owner

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: Elyse ( )
Date: November 11, 2018 12:43PM

Telling members to donate extra money to Fast Offerings in order to help those fire victims is the height of cynicism.

You know full well the damn Mormon church barely helps its own members anymore, much less non-members.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: Concerned Citizen 2.0 ( )
Date: November 11, 2018 12:49PM


Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: Kathleen ( )
Date: November 11, 2018 01:47PM

The sad part is that generous people will give to TSCC believing that their money will help someone.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: Concerned Citizen 2.0 ( )
Date: November 11, 2018 02:57PM

...it probably will help. Help replace a black-mold-ridden AC system in some old, tumble-down Ward building, where strange, debilitating respiratory conditions have been reoccurring over the years.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: GNPE ( )
Date: November 11, 2018 03:03PM

help the GAs retirement plans, ChurchCo investments

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: alivenow ( )
Date: November 11, 2018 04:37PM

On the radio this am, the church was grateful that no members or missionaries were hurt, despite burning down two churches. They said there was some kind of Stake roster of folks who would take in displaced members. I always wonder when the church makes these kind of comments why they don't seem to care about those who are not members. Never mentioned, ever. Weird?

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: moremany ( )
Date: November 11, 2018 09:40PM

Absolutely!

We/ God/ Jesus Christ doesn't notice, care about, or even acknowledge neighbors that don't claim association with the morons.

Totally blasphemous

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: messygoop ( )
Date: November 11, 2018 06:47PM

My TBM Mom said that members are being asked to collect and donate clothing and other durable goods for the fire victims. This is from a Nor Cal ward/stake.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: NeverMo Chris ( )
Date: November 11, 2018 10:16PM

A friend only gives to the Salvation Army. When his family truly needed help, one of the things they did was make sure he and his sister had a Christmas. He says that while he was old enough to understand, his sister wasn't...

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: Kathleen ( )
Date: November 11, 2018 10:36PM

Notice the stake centers aren't used as evacuation centers?

Maybe it's because fire victims aren't in the mood to clean toilets.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/11/2018 10:36PM by kathleen.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: Tevai ( )
Date: November 11, 2018 10:44PM

kathleen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Notice the stake centers aren't used as evacuation
> centers?
>
> Maybe it's because fire victims aren't in the mood
> to clean toilets.

This is very interesting.

The Woodland Hills LDS church [wardhouse?], on Deseret Drive, is "across the street" from a mandatory evacuation area.

I wonder what, if anything, they have been doing to help their neighbors, or the firefighters, up to "now" [means: the time when the mandatory evacuation order went into effect].

If these LDS premises are now part of the mandatory evacuation order, what were they doing BEFORE?

EDITED TO ADD: There is now a mandatory evacuation order for all of Calabasas (whose city limits begin "across the street" from Mulholland Drive, which is the main street for Deseret Drive). As I understand the situation, all of Calabasas, and all of Hidden Hills, are now under mandatory evacuation. (If someone has better information, please correct what I have said here! Thank you.)

More info: www.ktla.com



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/11/2018 10:59PM by Tevai.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: Kathleen ( )
Date: November 11, 2018 10:50PM

Do your ward buildings and stake centers have tall, spikey iron fences and gates around them?

Ours do.

They look like Maleficent's castle.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: Tevai ( )
Date: November 11, 2018 10:53PM

kathleen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Do your ward buildings and stake centers have
> tall, spikey iron fences and gates around them?
>
>
> Ours do.
>
> They look like Maleficent's castle.

The last time I noticed, my memory says that the LDS church building was surrounded by open lawns. (It is in a residential area.)

I haven't been by that particular area in a couple of years, and I wasn't paying that much attention when I was last there, so my memory may not be accurate.

Options: ReplyQuote
Go to Topic: PreviousNext
Go to: Forum ListMessage ListNew TopicSearchLog In


Screen Name: 
Your Email (optional): 
Subject: 
Spam prevention:
Please, enter the code that you see below in the input field. This is for blocking bots that try to post this form automatically.
 ********  ********   **    **  ********  ********  
    **     **     **   **  **      **     **     ** 
    **     **     **    ****       **     **     ** 
    **     ********      **        **     **     ** 
    **     **            **        **     **     ** 
    **     **            **        **     **     ** 
    **     **            **        **     ********