Just been listening to a very harsh talk offered by Kimball from Sep 1976. It seems that he has some very choice words and highly opinionated beliefs for the BYU indoctrinated student body. I even heard him suggest that nagging women often bring on the domestic abuse themselves (26:40 mark). This was in addition to his strong opinion about couples marrying their own kind (race and social class).

Question: Does it seem that more angst and disdain was directed at these young people than a heart filled golly-shucks general conference talk?

I still can't figure out why my daft parents fell for "the woman's place is in the home: stay there!" when my father didn't earn enough so my mom was one of those happy career women.

Here's the link for those that can stomach him.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bkVusHIq2us

It's important to understand the what was happening in the culture in '76. Politically, socially etc.

The country was shifting. Vietnam, Watergate, the sexual revolution, etc.

Spend time understanding the 60's,the 70's and Mormon conservatism talk fits right in with SWK's talk.

This is important. That is my time period and important to realize that the Mormon stance on BlackS, gays, women etc wasn't that different to how much of the country felt at that time.

The country made changes for the better constantly and at a steady pace. The Mormons finally had to update their stance from time to time when their actions were in such contrast to the newer kinder and more accepting society that was happening.

If Spencer's speech from that period had been released to the general public it wouldn't have caused much of a stir with the majority I would say. The same speech released today would be met with disgust.

It wasn't that long ago that BKP said the biggest threat was the women's movement, the gays, and intellectuals. The church knows better than to frame it that way today, but the notion is still there in more PR correct words. Not hard to read between the lines of what any Mormon leader says though.

The world changes with the times. The mormons just rearrange the front they keep up.

Do you remember when Kimball gave a devotional talk and told BYU students not to wait to get married? "Just do it!" That was probably 1973.

Sales of engagement rings in Provo went through the roof the next week. I wonder how many of those marriages have lasted? And how many that have are still emotionally satisfying?

I was there. Heard the speech from SWK's own lips. Made it clear--marriage and family first and then education. Sin not to get married. He apparently was desperate to make everyone as miserable as he was in his marriage. Haha.

Man that speech was long. Certainly not watered down. There was nothing diluted about SWK ever. He was always an extra-strength type product. But he could still drone on until you needed toothpicks for your eyelids and he did that day.

I was only there to keep up appearances that day. Listening to my room-mates talk about how inspiring it was after kind of made me sick. I think guys knew there was a better chance of getting a girl to say yes after they had heard that exhortation. What a boon. And the sister girls rushed home to bake cookies to take to their favorite RM. Long time ago. Watercolor memories.

And there was no knowledge of the wide dissemniaation such talks would have later on. Things were hard to get access and could be more easily buried.

It's important to remember who Kimball was.

He wrote that masturbation paves the way to homosexuality, which is a pretty strong indicator that he was gay. Not surprisingly, he and Camille did not get along and spent long stretches of time living in different places rather than staying together. so when he said that any worthy man and woman could form a happy family, he has speaking of something he didn't personally know.

When someone lives with so much cognitive dissonance, the tension manifests. Kimball, Petersen, Packer: they and many of their peers were angry, troubled people. It's not surprising how much hatred and insecurity they exuded.

Lot's Wife Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> so when he said that any worthy man and
> woman could form a happy family, he has speaking
> of something he didn't personally know.

He was speaking from something he knew personally. The term "happy family" means something totally different in a Mormon context than with a general understanding.

That is true.

It means "no one has killed anyone. . . yet."

Or sins next to that.

Of which there are many. Not wearing your garments home from the gym is the sin next to murder, I was told.

It depends what you did at the gym.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/22/2018 07:26PM by Lot's Wife.

Wouldn't that be "who?"

You are a bad man, EB, a bad man!

Well there is this...

"On behalf of the leadership and members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, we extend our warmest wishes to His Holiness Pope Francis and pray he will feel the peace of the Lord as he serves as pontiff of the Catholic Church."
https://www.mormonnewsroom.org/article/first-president-offers-warmest-wishes-pope-francis

"In particular, Elder Ballard’s remarks about Roman Catholics not knowing God, Jesus, or the Holy Ghost have raised hackles among Mormons and non-Mormons alike."
https://janariess.religionnews.com/2015/10/23/mormon-apostle-criticized-for-anti-catholic-remarks/

I guess Elder Ballard would never pray the pope feel the spirit of the Lord...

Watch it, EB. That's a witness to (the name of) the Lord you are talking about.

Yeah, and if he was wording the welcome pontiff pr it might have gone like this...


"On behalf of the leadership and members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, we extend our warmest from Hell wishes to His Whorefullness Pope Francis and pray he will feel the many waters he lies upon of the lord he serves as pontiff of the Catholic Church."



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 11/19/2018 12:15PM by Elder Berry.

This is the talk that was printed and sold at deseret Book 1978 if I'm not mistaken. I have a copy of the book downstairs. It has all the old ideas on how to make a perfect marriage.
1) Johnny is suppose to come home each night to Susie and never take overtime.
2) Susie is suppose to clean herself up and have good dinner so Johny doesn't start wandering off.
3) And Susie would never think of getting a job because she knows her place and would be a temptation to men at work
4) Susie is never suppose to ask for new things because being poor is ok
5) Johnny has wrought nerves from being at work and if he's rude or swears at Susie, Susie is suppose to be nice and not yell back.
6) Johnny is to never go to bed mad at his wife
7) Susie has to have as many babies as possible, probably 11, like the Kimballs did.

I guess this is all good wisdom? But what gets me is the idea from McKay Lee and Kimball about marrying "your own kind." Within their economic society. McKay goes so far as to suggest that parents need to study the geneology of a girls suiters. Beware of divorce in the ancestory because of tainted blood, And that every child should be born into a family with the right "name" (I assume he meant british name) almost suggests that even in pioneer Utah there were White Trash mormon families (Irish? Italian? Danish? or perhaps Tawneys... IDK) not good enough to Marry into mormon Royalty.

Or perhaps the view was that those with money should marry into money even though everyone in Utah was poor before WW2. What was taught openly then is offensive now.

Compare to earlier GC speeches by BY & others.

Today's GC speeches are diluted self-serving pandering by officials who are so out of touch with the rank-and-file membership... they don't think their shit stinks.

Gordon Hinckley said it well: "I am sustained as such" and (paraphrase) ' it's either true or a fraud'

Thanks, Gordon!

My personal opinion is that the talks were more zealous during the devotionals. These were BYU folks—young and naive with hardons for the church and it’s leaders.

I was there at the Kimball “everyone get married talk.” There was a steady stream of lights between the Marriott Center and the Provo Temple that night.

Also, I was present at Boyd’s rant against the arts where he insisted that Mormon artists, poets, and musicians do more to represent the First Vision and other unique Mormon things in the artistic community. He prophesied that until Mormon creators produced more faith-inspiring church works, there would be no LDS masterpieces recognized by “The World.”

Hell, yeah! He was a prophet that day!! Michelangelo’s David’s Boner.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/27/2018 11:34PM by BYU Boner.