Attendance was down a lot. Talks just "so so." High Council man was explaining to us in 2 weeks we only have a 1 hour meeting on account of Christmas. He said that should bring lots of people out. I thought that was strange. So is the push now on for 1 hour meetings on Sunday.

When Sacrament meeting is over people there is little interaction with each other. It was like the end of a funeral and people not knoiwing what to say or how to repond.

Every week there are changes in callings and few people show up to get sustained. So we do not know who they are.

People, I mean the saints, looked stressed out.

We had a Christmas party Friday. Nice dinner, but no Christmas program. Very strange. Bishop spoke to us about doing service over the holidays. That was the program.It was like no one knew it was Christmas. Lots of the regulars did not show up for dinner.

As I drove home after Sacrament meeting I looked at the Church parking lot and looked at the temple. I had a vision of Sears closing shop.

Go back 60 years and we as a family enjoyed going to Church. It was fun on Sunday talking to everyone. No one wanted to leave. Everyone had something to say to everyone.

One last thing. The building is freezing cold. Even Friday night it was cold. I asked the Bishop is he knew how to turn the heat up and he said no it's controlled from SLC and they, meaning his Bishopric did not know the by pass codes.

I am suspecting that the cold building is a money saving technique. And that is also why they have gone to 2 hours too. To save on heating and cooling. Sears stores did the same thing. We also do not run all the lights in the chapel now either. It's been like that for last month or so. The whole building is freezing.

Are other wards like this now?

Wow. Wow.

I am really interested to know if this is the norm for the most part, or if it's an outlier

People are bored with the long meetings. Someone needs to introduce a one-hour block meeting. That'll solve their problems.

Well, Sears merged with K-Mart before and they both sank. Maybe the church will merge with My Space and suffer the same fate.

The post-merger entity will be called either: (1) The Jwormons; or (2) The Mormon Witnesses

(along with the other weird stuff).

I think the Internet, more than half a century of critique against Christianity and other things have taken a toll.


But I sometimes wonder if one of the biggest things sapping and draining the life out of Mormonism is the fact that the Second Coming didn't happen. Sure, it's always been a bit ambiguous as to WHEN it was precisely supposed to happen. But I'm old enough to remember a time when most members generally believed that the great winding up would be sometime around the turn of the millennium.

Many even predicted its occurrence to be well before the year 2,000. Then 2,000 and the Y2K crisis/non-crisis came and went. Then one new "big event" year after another came and went. Then the year 2012 (even hyped up by a movie) came and went.

And now...I suspect that in the back of their minds, many Mormons are just in a state of profound befuddlement. The leaders don't really even talk much about the "Second Coming" anymore. The biggest thing on the mind of their Top Prophet guy is how evil the "Mormon" nickname is.

Cognitive dissonance doesn't express itself in calm, rational verbalizations concerning troublesome observations. It's usually more like a primal scream in the back of one's mind that gets louder and louder as time goes on and manifests as an uneasy feeling in the pit of one's stomach.

I look around at the devout TBMs that I know, and I get the feeling that many of them are putting on a brave face, but are actually very profoundly feeling that "something's wrong" feeling every day...and it's not getting better or going away. It's almost the year 2019, and most older Mormons probably never imagined that the great events of the last days would still not have materialized by 2019. The whole "latter-day" part of the formal name of the Church is starting to sound irrelevant and hollow.

The Church is now like a can of beans that is 19 years past its expiration date. Now the members don't know whether to throw it away or keep it on the shelf "just in case."

"is the fact that the Second Coming didn't happen"

Well, of course not. We keep seeing them damn rainbows every year!

When I joined the church in the 1970s, I think we all believed the second coming would occur by the year 2000. Members would say it regularly. That it hasn't happened is a big hole in the story. I guess Jesus needed to come back before the internet was invented to save Mormonism.

They're in Endure To The End mode.

Only 3 more years until the next Canadian census (2021) (and two years after that before the data is released (bummer)) and we can find out how many people in each province still self-identify as Mormon. Always fun to compare that to the "official" LDS numbers. If Secular Priest's experience is any indicator, the air is coming out of the balloon pretty quickly.

They are closing shop.
You are catching a glimpse.

Leaders know all about Habits & Indoctrination work together;

A Giant Question is how many people believe enough to shape their life choices / behaviors.
One never really knows in Morland beyone people who attend church or temple that is.

“I asked the Bishop is he knew how to turn the heat up and he said no it's controlled from SLC and they, meaning his Bishopric did not know the by pass codes”

Of course. They are stretched thin. Decreased tithing revenue can’t cover a bloated yet hidden cost structure. Forced austerity is just going to dry up tithing even more. The church is eating itself.

They can’t see the writing on the wall, which is all for the best.

with decision-making authority with regard to thermostats in the local meeting places...tells me that they really do consciously manage the enterprise like a multinational business corporation.

I almost want to become active again just so that I can quit on that account alone.

"I teach them correct principles and they govern themselves." Har har hardee har har! NOT!! They're not even allowed to "govern" the thermostat in their own meeting places.

The utter contempt that the "brethren" must have for the ordinary members is palpable. They even treat bishops like they're incompetent children--and they get away with it.

I keep forgetting that they really don’t care.

I don't think it is about decreased tithing as much as it is greediness on the part of SLC.

The church spread into very poor countries where 10% of next to nothing is essentially nothing. So revenue per capita is decreasing. More than ever, the wealthier, more faithful members are subsidizing the rest of the church. TBMs make up a decreasing share of the church.

and historical facts overwhelmingly indicated that Joseph Smith, Brigham Young and the gang were frauds.

But when I was still in it: (1) local ward members could plan events; (2) use the church kitchen to cook and prepare meals; and (3) control the temperature in their local meeting places. They also could hire janitors and groundskeepers (usually giving an honorable way to make a living to one or more hard-working families in the area who needed the job).

Now, the doctrine is still insane. Joseph Smith is still a fraud. But they add insult to injury by humiliating the members and treating them like incompetent children.

No cooking in the church kitchen allowed. (Need to save money on insurance premiums and the members can't be trusted.)

No thermostat control (need to save money on heating bills and the members can't be trusted)

No initiative allowed in planning local events (insurance, costs, possible lack of uniformity...and the members can't be trusted).

What a sad excuse for a church! I feel sorry that most of my family and close friends from childhood are still emotionally and mentally trapped in it.

>>No thermostat control (need to save money on heating bills and the members can't be trusted)

To me, nothing says, "You're not wanted here" faster than a cold building. I've tried to teach kids in very cold buildings. Their eyes are glazed over and they can't learn. All they can think about is how miserable they are.

If I were a Mormon entering a cold building, I would tell the bishop, "I'll see you in the spring when things warm up again." As an outsider, it seems to me that the Mormon church is behaving in an increasingly abusive manner towards its members. It makes me wonder when the members will say, enough. How can a church member fork over thousands of dollars each year and not get something back for it -- even a warm building?



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 12/10/2018 08:10AM by summer.

Beatings will continue until morale improves.

That saying never made more sense than it does now.

The downfall of Sears gets a lot of Monday morning quarterbacking. Failure to change with the times, obsolete, unable to compete in the current business atmosphere comes to mind. Absolutely comparable to Mormonism-but lets add some more..

Sears/Kmart is run by CEO Eddie Lampert, also a ruthless hedge fund manager. The company, once an American icon as well as a major employer, has been raped by this man.

Classic Sears brands such as Kenmore and Craftsman were sold off. A real estate empire was quietly mortgaged, sold, or sold with Sears/Kmart renting the property formerly owned by them to new landlord, CEO Eddy Lampert.

Attention becomes distracted when directed towards Amazon destroying the competition. Meanwhile, quietly and behind the scenes, a company was knowingly destroyed, pensions raided, and assets pillaged.

We have seen this play before, most notably with vulture capitalists taking over Hostess, destroying the company, raiding all assets, and then conveniently blaming trade unions for the end of Twinkies. A financial play used numerous times by one Bain Capital, once chaired by LDS royalty and Utah Senator-elect Mitt Romney.

LDS Inc is definitely a sinking ship-and I would submit probably close to bankrupt. The financial danger to a tax exempt corporation sole is NO oversight. No earnings calls, no angry shareholders, no IRS issues to trigger the term “accounting irregularities”

Watch for temples being sold. That will be the canary in the coal mine.

Temples will continue to run even when church buildings close. That's the pillar of the Mormon community.

It continues to build new temples all the time. That doesn't sound to me like it's in freefall. Most of the new construction is happening throughout the Morridor, but also the North American continent and parts of Europe.

The fact that they are building temples doesn’t mean it makes any sense. You can see the way the church reacts to Nelson’s pet projects.

I think the church is slowly dying, but still has huge financial reserves to play with that will keep it afloat for some time to come, unfortunately.

"Death of a Salesman" comes to mind.

It's a shell of its former self.

SEcular Priest Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> Every week there are changes in callings and few
> people show up to get sustained. So we do not know
> who they are.

Wow. Just wow. People go inactive by the time they get a calling? We had that with our converts here in Europe.


> One last thing. The building is freezing cold.
> Even Friday night it was cold. I asked the Bishop
> is he knew how to turn the heat up and he said no
> it's controlled from SLC and they, meaning his
> Bishopric did not know the by pass codes.

Oh my Vishnu, Wotan and Osiris! Has it really come to this? The controlfreakery never seems to end. Big Brother is cooling you in winter!

I remember the janitors and grounds keepers at all the wards I’ve been to.They were all very nice guys. I stopped attending when they let them all go,to having members do the slaving.
I wonder what reason they gave them when they let them go and if the church helped them find other jobs to support them and their families.

In my southern state ward, the chapel temperature was sometimes very cold in winter but the individual rooms had individual thermostats so they could be adjusted.

If they were really interested in keeping members they would not ask us to do janitorial and would bring back the paid helpers.

Also while shortening the block seems like a move to keep people happy, what would really help would be flexing the dress code. It is a lot of effort to get all dressed up just for one hour.

The comment about nobody taking callings and nobody knowing each other was not the case here but it helps me not feel guilty about giving up my calling after only a few months.

I guess I don't really hate the church, I just don't want it in my own life.

I don’t mind dressing up, but don’t like being told what kind of dressing up, like what kind of dress, for the men , what coloured shirt, having to wear a tie if that person isn’t comfortable with ties. Nice pants and a shirt are nice and respectful.
As far as the cold, I keep my house in the 60s, heat and AC.
I can stand the cold,just bring a sweater, but I’m a wimp in the heat, I would have to leave ( and would) if it was Summer and they didn’t have the AC on.I bet the GAs keep their houses comfortable.

When I was kid a few score ago Ward Christmas party was so fun everyone came even the Jack-Mormons. Santa was there and gave out gifts and the food was fantastic and there was a program with readings and songs and it was loud and merry.

Everyone hung out and "visited" after church. Felt good to be there for everyone I dare say. Still, it was nice to throw the doors open and walk out into the sunshine.

Your post reminded me even more than Sears of that sad SNL sketch from so many years ago about the last couple of stores in a dying Mall dreading the inevitable end. Desperately clinging to hope that somehow things would turn around. It wasn't funny. I don't know why they did that one. I don't know why the Mormons aren't jumping ship faster. There is a sadness creeping in. I hear it in my Mother's voice and she constantly tells me how wonderful the church is.

I think bishops are obeying CENCOM instructions regarding HVAC, but I doubt all buildings are directly controlled by automatic means.

Could it be that bishops are 'fronting' (lying) for SLC? Of Course it is!

Yes, lying, saying it is done REMOTELY is a total fabrication.

I'd like to see someone from Salt Lake come to around and light all the heaters in the old buildings, and turn off the lights every Sunday.

The guy believes his lies so much because that is all he'll repeat.

> One last thing. The building is freezing cold.
> Even Friday night it was cold. I asked the Bishop
> is he knew how to turn the heat up and he said no
> it's controlled from SLC and they, meaning his
> Bishopric did not know the by pass codes.

So, they trust the Bishop to excommunicate any woman or child in his Ward, but they don't trust him to keep the building at a specific temperature?

Interesting.

Let's face it....

setting the temperature controls is an extremely mundane matter; Not going to please everyone.

Large chains, stores, restaurants, etc. are doing this by remote now, even the lighting...
All possible because of internet.

We KNOW that ChurchCo prefers the corporate ways of doing most everything!!

Bishops like to focus on anything else.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/10/2018 01:35PM by GNPE.

They could have a remote bishop and a completely automated building with fingerprint "keys."

Go to your interview in a private chapel room that opens at your touch and you sit in front of a screen and video conference your interview to be recorded and saved for eternity.

Are U suggesting there aren't plenty of Bishop Wannabees?

Next: a Remote SP!

talks (hate that word/use!) are presented on a screen/viewer or on your tablet!!!!

'sacrament' is Self-Serve!

They complain about "lack of leadership." Outsource it to Utah.

From the moment I heard the news, I suspected the two-hour meeting was about money. They can pack more wards into fewer buildings. The brethren don't give a rat's ass about the stress level or time of those at the bottom of the pyramid scheme.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/10/2018 02:50PM by Atari.

How many Bishop's offices in each (new) building?

I'm guessing 3 max.

I've never (?) seen a chapel with a school-like portables

does anyone know of a chapel with 4 wards? (which bishop cheated out of having his own office???)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/10/2018 03:11PM by GNPE.

Eventually they could reduce their operations to wards being the size of a family, church services held in the home, lessons and talks from Central Command via satellite or internet connection, with occasional home visits for worthiness interviews from a local bishop.

Removing expensive building costs while retaining and gaining more control would definitely improve profit margins.