in the long term, that is.

my read: he appears to be 'drunk on power', is my assessment of a bit erratic founded in fact(s)?


I don't get that he's concerned about individuals or the close choices that people (church members) face, especially individuals who are trying to lead a Christ-Like life, 'in spite of ChurchCo'.

What other views on this are there?

Nothing he says and no policies he puts in place will matter once he dies. The church can just as easily throw him under the bus as has been done with so many before him.

Yup, into the dustbin of history.

And, outside the micro-world of Mormonism, he doesn't even exist.

mikemitchell Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Nothing he says and no policies he puts in place
> will matter once he dies. The church can just as
> easily throw him under the bus as has been done
> with so many before him.

Mormon prophets are pretty disposable. You had Thomas S. Monson who served in the Quorum of the Twelve, The First Presidency and as prophet. He was highly visible for decades and was very charismatic and was known to give good talks.

It didn't take long for the church membership to forget Monson and start going ga ga for Russel M Nelson who has no charisma and who's talks are quite forgettable. All Russ has to do is make a few changes and the members wet themselves with excitement. It's pretty pathetic actually.

When Nelson passes he will be quickly forgotten. It's pretty much an in the moment church.

Yes. It is too early.

We all of us have this vague notion that there exists a group of high-ranking leaders who have a more grown-up grasp of reality who will one day exert their authority and reverse at least some of the excesses of BKP, Jowls Holland, Dallin Hoax and the rest. The fact is that such a caucus does not exist. The Apostles run the church , and there is no mechanism for reining in any of them. So the future is impossible to predict.

Historians and journalists keep trying to find patterns and trends in Conference talks and Proclamations to the World and so on,, when in fact there is no pattern to be found. The only trend is chaos. Sorry.

slskipper Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Yes. It is too early.
>
> We all of us have this vague notion that there
> exists a group of high-ranking leaders who have a
> more grown-up grasp of reality who will one day
> exert their authority and reverse at least some of
> the excesses of BKP, Jowls Holland, Dallin Hoax
> and the rest. The fact is that such a caucus does
> not exist. The Apostles run the church , and there
> is no mechanism for reining in any of them. So the
> future is impossible to predict.
>
> Historians and journalists keep trying to find
> patterns and trends in Conference talks and
> Proclamations to the World and so on,, when in
> fact there is no pattern to be found. The only
> trend is chaos. Sorry.

Very true. It's an in the moment church and what really keeps the whole thing going is the members accept whoever ends up in the prophet seat.

Nelson's leadership will go--though a brief flash-in-the pan, more wealth from the cult, then death.

Yeah, and more chaos!

I REVEAL, yes I do, his leadership and his mundane and weird utterings will go down the dasturdly tube of "forget what that dead old prophet said pronto, as we now have a, drum role please, LIVING PROPHET, the moment Rusty croaks.

And by "lives", I mean in a mobile, reasonably mentally alert state. If he ends up spending 4 or 5 years being wheeled around by handlers and having a microphone shoved into his face 2 times a year so that he can mumble something completely unintelligible (the way that Benson, Kimball and others ended up), he will just be a figurehead with no real input.

I've been around long enough to know that they're always fiddling around with things like meeting schedule policies and such, so Nelson hasn't done anything important there.

His really big thing is the campaign against the "Mormon" nickname. It's actually a sentiment that has come and gone over the years, but nobody has previously raised it to the level of importance that Nelson has. I really wonder how many of the other GAs share his obsession or whether they're just playing along for the time being.

His immediate two predecessors in the Prophet slot obviously thought that the "Mormon" nickname was just fine and dandy and went on the record numerous times to express their pride in being known as Mormons.

So, the precedent is there. If Nelson can spit on their graves. His successor can spit on his grave. Of course there won't be any dramatic reversal. All a successor has to do is stop supporting Nelson's campaign and let things gradually revert to the norm. If nobody is out there actively and constantly scolding people who say "Mormon" eventually it will slide back into common use. Then, maybe around 2028, the Tabernacle Choir at Temple Square will get its old name back. "MoTab Classic."

Hey if the membership can forget Gordon B Hinckley spending a lot of the church's money on the Hoffman forgeries and accepting him as prophet they can forget any crazy stuff Russel M Nelson has done. It's all disposable because the members don't follow the man. They follow the office. Also the senior apostle becomes the next prophet for the simple fact of keeping the apostles from getting into a power fight over who will be the next prophet. Just because that system exists shows you the church doesn't even trust it's own leaders. So there you go. It is what it is. An assembly line of changing figures but as long as the stuffed suit has a tittle that's all the members care about.

It's Nelson's turn to be King of the Hill for a day over the mormon minions. When he topples from his pedestal, he'll be as forgotten as those who came before him. Dust in the wind.

"If I Were King Of The Forest not queen, not duke, not prince.
My regal robes of the forest would be satin, not cotton, not chintz.
I'd command each thing, be it fish or fowl, with a woof and a woof, and a royal
growl.
As I'd click my heel all the trees would kneel and the mountains bow and the
bulls kowtow
And the sparrows would take wing, if I were king.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gOCNY9pJ850

I think Rusty is setting up a foundation for his buddy, Hoax to rule. We know that they are friends and I think the current policies are 100% approved by the lawyer. Both of them have been pompous asses from the moment they were set apart as apostles.

Excellent. A doctor and a lawyer to make their way of their lord come true. No more Mormons, homosexuals, transgendered, and all the families will worship them from their homes.

My son didn't realize that there was a chapter? called mormon in the book of mormon, so I showed him (in the copy my aunt gave him for Christmas, that she gave to all my mother's children and grandchildren since we are mostly out). We have now disposed of the books of mormon. BUT he was SHOCKED.

There is just no way that in the BIG BAD WORLD that they are going to be able to make such a long and laborious name stick. The media, etc., will always go back to LDS or mormon.

We were discussing the tabernacle choir at temple square (is that the name). That is going to go south in no time flat outside mormonism.

He's just FULL OF HIMSELF. Every week is just another time for him to show how ridiculous he really is.

Personally, I think he is the most ridiculous "prophet" that I've seen in my lifetime.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/13/2019 10:43AM by cl2.

They tried to get rid of the "Mormon" nick name in the 1980's. They changed the church logo making Jesus Christ prominent in the lettering and told the church members to avoid using Mormon when they referred to the church. Of course that all failed and things went back to where they were until Nelson tried a more extreme version of eliminating the use of the word Mormon.

The truth of the matter is the word Mormon has a bigger history and tradition than Russel M Nelson has. When he's gone people are just going to look back at it and chuckle. "Oh yeah I remember when the church tried that". Nelson will just become another tombstone in the Salt Lake City cemetery as all the attention goes on the next in line.

do you mean Nelson's leadership or do you mean where LD$ Inc is headed under Nelson's leadership.

The quirky edicts and other goofy things that Nelson has implemented as top MORmON will be GONE and forgotten just as soon as Nelson is gone (dead).

The MORmON church is on its way into steep and increasing decline largely due to the "no unhallowed hand" of the internet, regardless of Nelson's leadership or anyone else being at the MORmON helm.

I take the Pope more seriously than i do the Mormon president. And that isn't saying much.

The Pope commands more respect IMHO than the president of the COJCOLDS. In 2,000 more years there will still be a Pope and the Vatican.

Can we say the same for Temple Square and TSCC?

That's a tough call. But unlikely.

It seems to be going nowhere. A bunch of superficial tweaks will not help an organization with fundamental problems, which it refuses to face.

The church has nothing to offer. I think many members have realized several things. I think they have seen people that were active in the church leave and that those "deserters" have not experienced some sort of epic calamity from not keeping their church covenants. Secondly, the church is not a nice place to be even if you no longer believe. Third, many of the Generation X and Y haven't seen or experienced any of the Mormon grandeur that was EXPLICITLY promised from all those faithful youth fireside talks. Fourth, the church leaders are completely out of touch with reality, if not delusional. Their gay exclusion policy doesn't resonate with younger members.

It's too early to say. Wait until he's been the prophet for 25
or 30 years.

He's 94 now, he's been in the Hot Seat for a little over a year; 25 - 30 years in office? Really.

In reading the wiki, I didn't see anything about him serving a mission... Hmmm.

Says he was in the military (as an M.D.), so I guess he is eligible for the G.I. benefits! How Wonderful & Marvelous
for the CEO & sole owner of a multi-billion $ empire!!!


that makes me wonder how many of the 15 served as missionaries...Oh Well.

It's like one of those optical illusions that can go either way. I tend to think the Internet makes everything less reversible.

Just look at the lasting damage to church cohesion and prestige due to Hinckley's flippant and conceited demeanor on national television. Remember television? Those clips are still around, thank gods. No one in the LDS church feels safe talking about becoming gods any more, at least in public. It's right there in King Follett and Section 132, and for that matter in John chapter 10, but in the new dumbed-down church all texts are forbidden except the most recent conference talks.

That makes the Internet all the more powerful. Those obscene images of Hinckley's ugly mug remain, and I can't get them out of my mind. "I don't know that we teach that?" Then how can anyone else know? Members claiming unique knowledge is the foundation of any cult. It attracts commitment, unknown talents, and most especially money from the members. So in the absence of esoteric knowledge, the LDS church is doomed. All because Hinckley wanted unlimited freedom for his imaginary media empire.

I think the PR department is freaking out over his name change of the Mormon Tabernacle Choir to The Tabernacle Choir at Temple Square.

Whatever small goodwill the Mormons had was probably the Mormon Tabernacle Choir. I am sure the public relations people are freaking.