understand the basic claim(s) of mormonism.

After many years of trying to figure out how to deal with mormon family and friends, I've become convinced that many don't understand what the mormon church is claiming about itself and thereby, them.

They are often confused when asked whether they believe that the church is God's only church on earth or whether they and other mormon males have God's authority to act - and no one else.

It's impossible to have a discussion about the truth or falsity of the church's claims because - they seem to just base their attendance at church on a good feeling about living together in heaven with family as long as they go to church/temple diligently and pay tithing.

Not only do they not know, in most cases they don't want to.

Take, for example, "living together in heaven with family." What does that even mean? Do they have some nebulous fantasy of sitting around a dining room table with their kids and grandkids? ("No empty chairs!")

OK, fine. But why is *their* table more special than anyone else's? Point out that their own parents have those same fantasies, and have just as much right to CK family gatherings as they do. So why won't it be dinner at the mansion of Peter's parents or Molly's parents?

And why stop there? Each generation will have the same right to these gatherings, and no matter how far back you go, it's still going to be in their celestial upline.

It can't work when you reflect on it, so they don't dare reflect, and instead mindlessly regurgitate "you need faith" or "it will all be worked out in the eternities" while looking dazed.

in this thred ~


outta the cult ~


capsulizes the Mordums fascination with Multi-Level-Marketing schemes ~


in after ~ "they don't dare reflect" ~

In fact it may be that the key to remaining Mormon is in not understanding the claims. Believing they are part of some Celestial "in-crowd" is enough for them.

Most Mormons understand themselves to be superior and to be God's favorites and that is all the understanding they require.

Luckily they have leaders who tell them "not to delve into the mysteries" and "all will be revealed in the hereafter," thereby letting them off the hook from having to make any sense of it all.

(anono this week)
very true, the great purpose of life is to learn to become independent and make good decisions, but of course that goes against mormonism where the great purpose is obedience to authority. Mormon Heaven is a degressive political system, something from the dark ages. Sure we all love Jane Austen novels fantisising about the nobility of heritage of an ancient English kingdom, but as time has proved since the 1700s, now we have something better, where more people have freedom and dignity.

When Mormonism was getting put together in the 1830's there seemed to be some longing for the past (almost a 'make america great again' theme) Democracy without a king had only had a foothold since 1812 and there were still many thinking about the old colonial and European ways of feudalism (the dark ages). Being the King and Queen, owning everything with tenant farmers and slaves (who were less righteous) on the estate, decreeing edicts, being served by underlings in a caste system, this is what mormons doctrine really teaches.

But we have something better now.

With the massive amount of contradictory info the church puts out, I wonder if the apostles themselves even study or read tge scriptures, let alone church history.

the ease they have in diluting past teachings (doctrines) makes my head spin.

the ones they haven't diluted? not many if U don't count the ones they have ignored...

Love the quotable descriptions on this thread's various posts of Morgbots in their comfy, non-thinking bubble. They......

- don't dare reflect
- mindlessly regurgitate
- just remember your need for faith
- it will be worked out in the eternities
- do not delve into the mysteries
- diluting past history
- ignoring past history

And will add:

- conveniently forgetting past history
- Research is unnessesary! Just bow your head and say NO



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/13/2019 04:10AM by presleynfactsrock.

This right here is why conversations with my mother are so pointless. She converted in her early 20s when she met my father. She probably couldn't name most of the LDS prophets, probably couldn't list more than 3 or 4 of the books in the Book of Mormon, couldn't name more than 3 or 4 of the current quorum of the 12. I don't believe that I ever once saw her sit through a single session of General Conference.

Her understanding of church doctrine and history is extremely superficial. And she's never really had any serious interest in exploring it deeper. She has no appreciation for the fact that I was into Mormonism at a level far deeper than she will ever even come close to. Mormonism is a social club to her and she never really had enough intellectual curiosity or integrity to really explore its claims. I'm sure that in her own mind, her Mormon experience is equivalent to mine.

And that is why I am out and she will be in until the day she dies.

the more that a person actually pays attention to MORmON doctUrine the more apparent it is that is does NOT make sense.


Families can not automatically be together in the next life if they want to because why?

Because the Devil is preventing it ?

Then why does NOT god prevail over the Devil on the matter?

IT must be because God is an @$$ hole !

IF its not the Devil preventing from families from being together then it must be God.....so God must be an @$$hole who might as well be the Devil !

Oh forget all that, a stupid secret handshake that MORmONS are NOT allowed to talk about is going to fix everything up (as long as LD$ Inc get paid for it!!!!! )

My wife and I almost had a full-blown argument about something similar to this last week.

DW: Satan isn't allowed to tempt children.

Me: Since when does Satan care about what's allowed? Allowed by whom?

DW: Allowed by God. Satan fulfills a purpose in God's plan, and he cannot overstep God's plan.

Me: Satan's purpose is to lead people away from God?

DW: Yes.

Me: God's plan is to have Satan subvert his plan?

DW: No, that's not what I said!

Me: Well, what did you say, then?

DW: God allows Satan to tempt His followers.

Me: So, you're saying that God is able to stop Satan if he wanted to?

DW: Yes.

Me: So, why doesn't he stop Satan?

DW: Because it would offend our agency.

Me: God allows evil in the world, even requires it, as a part of his plan?

DW: Yes.

Me: Doesn't that sound a little evil to you?

DW: No, you need evil for there to be good.

Me: But it sounds like the only reason there is evil is because that's the way God wants it. Couldn't he just as easily want there to be no evil and for Satan to be good?

DW: You don't understand.

GregS Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> DW: No, you need evil for there to be good.

I don't agree. I can experience a lot of good with next to no evil and many people seem to be able to do the same.

Jesus can't stand tepid believer (warmth) but he is evil if he needs evil to have his form of good.

The big lie is that people need this crazy black and white form of good which sets impossible standards which doesn't really follow through on helping people. That is the evil of ideology in my opinion. It creates standards which are impossible and demonizes everyone and everything that can't worship them because God knows no one could live them.

Gotta have somebody to both fear and hate, don't ya know.

Fearing and loving the same being are what people who want a supreme parent need as they live out their adult lives.

GregS Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Gotta have somebody to both fear and hate, don't
> ya know.


Fear and hatred are two sides of the same coin.

David Hume:

"If God is omnipotent, omniscient and wholly good, whence evil? If God wills to prevent evil but cannot, then He is not omnipotent. If He can prevent evil but does not, then he is not good. In either case he is not God."

smirkorama Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> the more that a person actually pays attention to
> MORmON doctUrine the more apparent it is that is
> does NOT make sense.
>
>
> Families can not automatically be together in the
> next life if they want to because why?
>
> Because the Devil is preventing it ?
>
> Then why does NOT god prevail over the Devil on
> the matter?
>
> IT must be because God is an @$$ hole !
>
> IF its not the Devil preventing from families from
> being together then it must be God.....so God must
> be an @$$hole who might as well be the Devil !
>
> Oh forget all that, a stupid secret handshake that
> MORmONS are NOT allowed to talk about is going to
> fix everything up (as long as LD$ Inc get paid for
> it!!!!! )

I'm with you on this topic. I can dismantle the entire notion of temples and sealing families together. If it is God's perfect plan of salvation then why would the separation of families even be part of the plan? If it is so perfect and so beautiful, it seems to me that "families together forever" would be the default position of the plan.

Certainly it would not be Satan dividing families as he would be defeated and bound, so it would have to be God that is dividing up families.

It don't work that way. I cannot envision a callous and unforgiving God that would divide families in the eternities. So to me, the whole idea is silly. I don't believe in such a deity and I don't believe God would be in the business of breaking up families period.

Mormonism was set up to CONFUSE, DISTRACT and FOOL (the foolable).

Mormonites simply can't read the translations and see it clearly for what it is.

It is doing it's job (well, the members are), POORLY at best.

I think to some extent their position is understandable given that the premise of Mormonism is that everyone else is out of step but it and that to supplant other churches and their version of Christianity Smith had to first destroy it (apostate, corrupt, an abomination, their scripture incomplete, etc.) before he could supplant it with his own version. Once you have achieved that the rest becomes much easier because now you become the standard by which everything else is measured. That's when such statements as "When the prophet speaks the thinking has been done." come into full effect.

I think that's ”Fool Effect".
Only the fools are affected.

One reason i left my branch ,yes its a branch not ward is, i was wondering why all the guys all around me seems dumb,actually not to be proud, the folks at my branch is not the brightest,I went to University,worked abroad,traveled a bit so you know.When i first got into Mormonism i read a lot about the literature.So when i really got to know the members they have their own culture like usually mentioned,complete obedience to leaders,even when they are morons.Getting the new guy to clean toilets,they actually don't really care,only care about the folks with "high" callings.They don't really read the various Mormon books and manuals,only i did haha. For some reasons the older sisters have many vendetta against each other haha,but they came to the branch every single week no matter what like a TBM.So every week there is a stare down.I just can't take it no more.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/15/2019 08:20PM by johnhope.

I agree. It isn't even the same church that I once belonged to.