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Posted by: JoD3:360 ( )
Date: October 17, 2010 03:15PM

The following summarizes the comparisons between the Masonic Legend of Enoch and Joseph Smith's story:

1. Enoch is shown the hill Moriah in a vision. .
2. Joseph Smith shown the hill Cumorah in a vision

1. Enoch is shown a hidden treasure.
2. Joseph Smith is shown the gold plates.

1. Enoch's treasure includes a gold plate with engravings.
2. Smith's gold plates are engraved.

1. Enoch's marble pillar is carved with Egyptian hieroglyphics.
2. Smith's plates are engraved in reformed Egyptian

1. Enoch's marble pillar tells the story of the treasure.
2. Smith's Book of Mormon tells story of the gold plates.

1. Enoch erects a brass pillar which tells the history of creation.
2. The Book of Mormon includes brass plates containing the five books of Moses.(58)

1. Enoch writes the history of the Tower of Babel on the marble pillar.
2. The Book of Mormon contains the Book of Ether, a history of a migration from the Tower of Babel.

1. Enoch's brass pillar has a metal ball on top which has the power to direct.
2. The Book of Mormon tells of a brass ball, the Liahona, which acts as a compass.

1. Enoch foresees a world-destroying flood.
2. Joseph Smith receives a revelation of the Book of Moses, giving an account of Enoch foreseeing a world-destroying flood.(59)

1. Enoch predicts that after the flood, an Israelitish descendant will find the treasure.
2. The Book of Mormon foretells an Israelitish descendant having the same name as Joseph of Egypt, who will find the treasure. Joseph claims to be the predicted descendant, even going so far as to give himself the code name of "Enoch" in his revelations. (60)

1. Three masons obtain the treasure after three attempts.
2. Smith tries to take the plates and is only successful after three attempts.

1. Three masons are witnesses to the treasure.
2. Smith arranges for three witnesses to the plates: Martin Harris, Oliver Cowdery and David Whitmer.

1. Solomon's treasure contained the gold plate, a brass pillar and record, the High Priest's breastplate, the Urim and Thummin and a metal ball. It also contained the Tetragrammaton, the name of God.
2. Smith's treasure consisted of the brass plates, gold plates, the Urim and Thummin, the High Priest's breastplate, and a metal ball called the "Liahona". The plates claimed to be from God.

1. The three masons note that the gold plate gives off enough light to illuminate the cavern.
2. Smith claims the Book of Mormon plates light up the cavern in the hill Cumorah.

1. Enoch's treasure is first hidden in his own cavern, and then later transferred to the hill Moriah. .
2. The Book of Mormon story states that the plates were first kept in a hill called Shim, then transferred to the hill Cumorah.

1. King Solomon allows only a few to see the treasure.
2. Smith allows only a few to see the plates.

1. Enoch's cavern is covered by a large stone with an iron ring.
2, Smith earlier claimed the plates were in an iron box, but later said it was stone.

1. Enoch is called by God to preserve the knowledge of the treasure.
2. Smith is called by God to preserve the knowledge of the plates.

1. King Solomon changes the status of his underground cavern from secret to sacred.
2. The Mormon temple ceremony is declared not to be secret, but sacred.

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Posted by: vhainya ( )
Date: October 17, 2010 04:11PM

1. King Solomon allows only a few to see the treasure.
2. Smith allows only a few to see the plates.

Actually no one ever saw the plates since they didn't exist. The three so-called 'witnesses' later clarified their testimonies to say they didn't physically see the plates.

1. Enoch's marble pillar is carved with Egyptian hieroglyphics.
2. Smith's plates are engraved in reformed Egyptian

Smith only claimed it was reformed Egyptian. Reformed Egyptian didn't exist, and had never existed. The sample script he fabricated was just doodles. Since the plates didn't actually exist he could have claimed they were written in any language. Egyptian hieroglyphic had only recently been decoded and saying it was some variation of the script was just convenient as scholars on the subject were uncommon.

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Posted by: helemon ( )
Date: October 17, 2010 04:34PM

Are you arguing that the Masonic story is any more factual? The point of the post was that once again it appears that JS stories were borrowed from other sources.

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Posted by: mbradford81 ( )
Date: June 29, 2016 10:06PM

The point is that JS took the masonic legend of Enoch and form fit it to foreshadow/mirror his own history. The point is that JS never had anything to go off of other than the works of others and masonic legends.

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Posted by: Heresy ( )
Date: October 17, 2010 04:44PM

up with his story? So he would have likely known this legend.

On top of that, he had undoubtedly heard the story of his uncle who was involved in the Detroit manuscript. That was an old document discovered in Detroit, written in an odd language that no one could understand. I think it turned out to be Celtic.
http://solomonspalding.com/SRP/saga/saga02b.htm

And then there is the "Magic Pot" by ETA Hoffman in 1814. I've seen some pretty good comparisons with it too:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Golden_Pot

Smith lived in a world where this stuff was not uncommon.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/17/2010 04:46PM by Heresy.

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Posted by: JoD3:360 ( )
Date: October 18, 2010 07:59PM

In The Mormon Church and Freemasonry (2001), Terry Chateau writes:

[The Joseph Smith family] was a Masonic family which lived by and practiced the estimable and admirable tenets of Freemasonry. The father, Joseph Smith, Sr., was a documented member in upstate New York. He was raised to the degree of Master Mason on May 7, 1818 in Ontario Lodge No. 23 of Canandaigua, New York. An older son, Hyrum Smith, was a member of Mount Moriah Lodge No. 112, Palmyra New York.

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Posted by: Otremer ( )
Date: January 28, 2011 10:58AM

Is there any chance that the Smith family might have been involved in the Morgan Affair beyond the widowed Lucinda Morgan becoming one of Joe's polygamous wives?

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Posted by: Freevolved ( )
Date: October 18, 2010 08:21PM

Thanks for the post JoD3:360. I was trying to look this up the other day. Joseph Smith was obsessed with Enoch as can be seen in the JST translation of the Bible called the Book of Moses. I was always so confused how people could lose so much information in the bible about a person named Enoch, until I figured out that it was never there in the first place and that Joseph Smith made it up. It made even more since when I found out that masons were obsessed with Enoch. JS secret name in revelations was Enoch - ha I wouldn't be surprised if it was his new name in the temple :)

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Posted by: toporific ( )
Date: October 29, 2010 12:55PM


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Posted by: JoD3:360 ( )
Date: December 22, 2010 08:46PM


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Posted by: toppestry ( )
Date: January 28, 2011 09:50AM


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Posted by: top ( )
Date: April 26, 2011 09:00AM


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Posted by: SayHi2Kolob4Me ( )
Date: January 28, 2011 10:01AM


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Posted by: Naomi ( )
Date: January 28, 2011 10:47AM

I never knew about the Enoch/Masons connection, that explains a lot.

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Posted by: Jesus Smith ( )
Date: January 28, 2011 10:59AM

Great stuff, JoD. I had a long reply but the censor heads said I couldn't post it because it had a secret naughty word I never could find.

My question: Was Joe into masonic legends before his moroni tales became public?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/28/2011 11:00AM by Jesus Smith.

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Posted by: JoD3:360 ( )
Date: January 28, 2011 11:10AM

In The Mormon Church and Freemasonry (2001), Terry Chateau writes:

[The Joseph Smith family] was a Masonic family which lived by and practiced the estimable and admirable tenets of Freemasonry. The father, Joseph Smith, Sr., was a documented member in upstate New York. He was raised to the degree of Master Mason on May 7, 1818 in Ontario Lodge No. 23 of Canandaigua, New York. An older son, Hyrum Smith, was a member of Mount Moriah Lodge No. 112, Palmyra New York.

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Posted by: Jesus Smith ( )
Date: January 28, 2011 11:15AM

That is good info. Thanks, JoD.

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Posted by: toppity ( )
Date: March 16, 2011 10:57AM


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Posted by: bradley ( )
Date: June 29, 2016 11:07PM

If it was Moroni who buried the golden plates, shouldn't we call them the moronic plates?

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Posted by: TXRancher ( )
Date: June 30, 2016 11:28AM

An old thread but very interesting and useful. All I can think about is what a scam!

I once was the disciplinary hearing officer at my university with regard to academic and behavioral issues. Most of the cases were plagiarism. As you know, that's copying text or ideas that aren't your own....and not giving proper credit. Under that definition, it's clear plagiarism. And it's obvious.

I know there are many other examples in the LDS scriptures, but these were new ones for me. What a crock.

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