" (millennials) ... who have turned away from traditional organized religion and are embracing more spiritual beliefs and practices like tarot, astrology, meditation, energy healing and crystals."


https://www.latimes.com/health/la-he-millennials-religion-zodiac-tarot-crystals-astrology-20190710-story.html



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/14/2019 01:13AM by Dave the Atheist.

As I have explained, at great length, before--I come from what you would term a "woo woo" family (on my mother's side only; completely different kinds of people on my father's side).

After years (when I was growing up) of trying very, very hard (and with everything I had in me--I was really motivated, because I wanted my Mom to be proud of me), I can proclaim that I am the world's worst when it comes to any kind of divination: Tarot cards, crystals, throwing "sticks," bones, etc.

Meditation isn't by itself woo woo--it is what most every creative person does in the course of them creating their creations, it is what scientists and mathematicians do when they are attempting to solve problems or make breakthroughs, and it is a part of some major religions (such as Judaism, Hinduism, and Buddhism). I suppose someone could meditate in a way that you or others might call woo woo, but this would have more to do with the "how" (especially if the technique was the product of some celebrity guru) than with meditation as a whole.

Energy work, of the Upledger Craniosacral variety, I know for a fact DOES work--especially on certain things like menstrual cramps, pains and other physical effects of fibroids, and many other physical conditions which involve ligaments, muscles, and so on. In other words, I would not use it as a treatment for cancer, but I would very likely try it out as a method to cope with painful situations FROM cancer, as a supplement to whatever medical treatments or procedures might be underway.

Everything listed by the OP are real things. Are there many bogus practices surrounding them? Sure. But they’re around because they work. Which bothers me a little about the Chinese because their use of astrology puts the West at a disadvantage. Mediumship is also real. My DW did that before we met. Maybe more kids born after 2012 will be able to do it.

We’re in a new energy now. You may find that the spiritual practices you sucked at before are now easier. Like with religion, the intellect still gets in the way. I can’t be the energy healer, I can only be the guy who makes the tools. But it’s been so rewarding to see them used. So many lives saved, so much gratitude. Amplified energy healing is still souped up energy healing. The portals between dimensions still need belief to work. We are multidimensional beings, not just meat robots. Life is holy, all of it. I can believe it’s all an accident as much as I can believe that Joseph Smith ran home a stack of golden plates like a linebacker.

Maybe that’s what religions are trying to get at but failing. What happens after “Thy Kingdom come, thy will be done”? They may be going away because the Kingdom is coming. It has always been at hand, just not in your face. Technology is coming. Spirituality is for machines just as many automated tasks are for machines.

I practice RV almost every day and it does seem to work to an extent ----- not perfect. In RV I had 7 in a row accurate hit rate on predicting the SP500 movement.

I also ask a lot of dream questions and get a lot of dream answers. Seems pretty helpful to me.

I also meditate using different procedures.

All of these above 'woo things' deal with the 'subconscious mind' which according to 'scientists' has a significant multiple of 'knowledge/information' compared to what it allows the conscious mind to 'recognize/deal' with.

There is a science to believing in woo and not everyone has the talent to be proficient in learning and practicing this science of belief in the woo.

And there is a difference to this science of believing in the woo and just making crap up,..

See what you provoked?

"Nothing new under the sun" (Heard that anywhere?)

It's the 1960's and 70's all over again! Then the psychedelic generation sang the "Age of Aquarius." Probably as the antithesis to the war in Vietnam and an end to bloodshed. *

I took up the practice and study of astrology as a teenager, and found it very interesting to learn the zodiac signs for members of my family. Not the newspaper variety, but the latitude/longitude of where they were born, time etc, with the alignment in their stars and the various arrangements that played in each of their particular zodiac.

For each of them their personalized zodiac fit them to a tee.

* We weren't actually in the "Age of Aquarius" during the height of the Cultural Revolution. Because there is no definite answer when that will occur.

"When does the Age of Aquarius begin? And what is the Age of Aquarius? The Age of Aquarius is not part of astronomy. It’s an astrological age, which occurs because of a real motion of Earth known as the precession of the equinoxes, which, for example, causes the identity of the Pole Star to change over time. The cycle of precession lasts 25,800 years, and there are 12 constellations of the Zodiac. So, roughly every 2,150 years, the sun’s position at the time of the March, or vernal, equinox moves in front of a new zodiac constellation. The Age of Aquarius begins when the March equinox point moves out of the constellation Pisces and into the constellation Aquarius. When will that be? There’s no definitive answer. Various interpretations give different answers to this often-asked question....

Some astrologers say the Age of Aquarius actually began in 2012. That’s because they believe the star Regulus in the constellation Leo the Lion marked the ancient border between the constellations Leo and Cancer. This star moved to within 30 degrees of the September equinox point in 2012, meaning that Regulus left the sign Leo to enter the sign Virgo in that year. Presuming equal-sized constellations in antiquity, that places the border of the constellations Pisces and Aquarius at 150 degrees west of Regulus, or at the March equinox point. By this reckoning, the Age of Aquarius started in 2012.

But again, although there is firm reckoning by many for the beginning of this astrological age, there is no agreement....

Definition of terms: March (or spring or vernal) equinox point. This is the point on the imaginary celestial sphere surrounding Earth at which the ecliptic – or path of the sun across our sky – intersects the celestial equator, or line around the sky directly above Earth’s equator. It’s sometimes called the First Point in Aries, because the sun used to be located in front of the constellation Aries at the time of the vernal equinox. For the past two thousand years, though, the sun has been located in front of the constellation Pisces at the time of this equinox. That’s the significance of the so-called Piscean Age. At some point, the sun at the equinox will be in front of Aquarius. That’s when the Age of Aquarius begins.

How did the Age of Aquarius enter popular culture? The Age of Aquarius in the U.S. is associated with the hippies of the 1960s and ’70s, and now with the New Age movement. In both cases, the arrival of the Aquarian age has been associated with … well, harmony and understanding, sympathy and trust abounding. And that brings us to the 1967 smash-hit musical Hair, with its opening song Aquarius, by a musical group called the 5th Dimension. The song opened with the lines:

When the moon is in the Seventh House
And Jupiter aligns with Mars
Then peace will guide the planets
And love will steer the stars
This is the dawning of the Age of Aquarius

It’s hard to describe how Hair, which seems daring even today, affected people when it opened on Broadway in 1968. It subsequently ran for 1,750 performances on Broadway and 1,997 performances in London, with simultaneous productions in cities across the United States and Europe, and with accompanying recordings (the original Broadway cast recording sold three million copies). Almost single-handedly in the late 1960s and early 1970s, this Broadway musical brought the Aquarian Age concept into the popular culture. ...

Bottom line: The Age of Aquarius begins when the March equinox point moves out of the constellation Pisces and into the constellation Aquarius. But there’s no definitive answer as to when that will be."

https://earthsky.org/human-world/when-will-the-age-of-aquarius-begin

This is what happens when science education is not required, properly taught, encouraged, funded, or rewarded. Unfortunately, there are groups who disparage science while taking every advantage of the fruits from it.

People are not born with bologna detection skills. It takes effort to learn how to evaluate claims.

Meditation is not the same as crystals and astrology.

There are issues to consider about why woo thrives. First, it's easy and you can assign any effect to the woo. Second, sometimes it works, but for the wrong reasons. For example, if someone avoids the dark river because of woo-demons, they might be the ones who didn't get bitten by mosquitoes and infected with "demons." Of course they have no clue about mosquitoes, and their decision-making will inhibit learning about what is really happening. But, OTOH, their superstition worked if the intent was to keep them from demons.

I don't think the majority of humans are going to ever understand why their woo is woo. They never even rule out the most plausible and testable explanations, Instead they jump straight to woo magic. It also provides the ritual and "answers" most people want (as with religion) without having to actually be right about anything.

Above is written by a "spiritual teacher." He seems to be able to separate wheat from chaff neatly enough. Astrology "irritating and silly." Amen. Mindfulness -- much more complex and doesn't it depend on how you define it? He see science as a form of mindfulness. "Mindfulness, in particular, has had scientifically validated impacts on prison populations, on veterans suffering from PTSD, on survivors of domestic violence, and on schoolkids in at-risk communities.

"The problem isn’t that Marianne Williamson teaches spirituality. The problem is she’s giving spirituality a bad name.

"She validates every lazy critique of spirituality by people who don’t really know what they’re talking about: that it’s selfish, deluded, and dumb. Her denigration of science is the exact opposite of mindfulness and other scientifically validated forms of contemplative fitness."

So -- in the end -- the New Spirituality IS just religion redux -- for a new generation -- who imagine themselves beyond religion. Some do it well for the good of themselves and others. Some see it as fertile ground for a con, a way to money and power over others. And most are just confused -- both profiting from these ideas -- and being conned.

This is what I have said about religion for a long time -- the problem isn't in the religions, it is in the people -- who continue to be people -- with all the amazing strengths and weaknesses of humans -- long after they leave "religion."

Maybe a more accurate statement would be that people are abandoning institutionally-directed and usually male-run spiritual life for self-directed spiritual life. The growth in woo-ish practices might mean only that people have greater choices than the ones defined by organized religion.

Besides, the alternative spirituality movement (not really a movement, but...) got rolling a few decades ago. Millennials didn't invent it. Younger people can gravitate toward it easily because older people trod the paths before them.

Tarot, etc., can actually be useful in a psychological sense, helping people clarify what they already know semi-subconsciously and understand their own feelings better.

I don't get the obsession with crystals and essential oils and that sort of thing -- there seems to be a personality type that is just determined to go against the grain, who will choose alternative remedies over legitimate medicine just to be different. That kind of thinking has grown especially among evangelicals in the last 20-30 years.

On the other hand, some herbs have received serious research attention and can work in some cases, and difficult as it is to accept, there is now an enormous body of evidence for mental healing techniques. It's not "woo" so much as an indication that our conscious minds can, to some degree, direct physiological functions and heal disease. I think it's important to remember that there is no such thing as the supernatural -- when we see results like that, we need to keep in mind that it's a natural phenomenon we just don't understand well yet.

An observer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I think it's important to
> remember that there is no
> such thing as the super-
> natural -- when we see
> results like that, we need
> to keep in mind that it's
> a natural phenomenon we just
> don't understand well yet.

Where does 'coincidence' fit in all this?

To the True Blue Wooster, there is no such thing as coincidence. "Everything happens for a reason."(™)

See also "this is the best of all possible worlds", "the Lard works in mysterious ways, his wonders to perform", and "it will be revealed to us in the next life".

ETA: if you are into secular Woo, "it will be revealed to us in the next plane/dimension."



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/14/2019 05:27PM by Brother Of Jerry.

Obviously, such studies have to adhere to the same scientific standards as any other.

I'm sorry you're unable to step outside your biases and consider new ideas. It must be a miserable life.

Did you reference any studies on mental healing? Did you link to any studies?

It's impossible to evaluate your argument without evidence.

Not sure which post you are replying to, though it does not appear to be mine.

As for being open to new ideas, Woo is not new. It is as old as humanity. The Enlightenment in Western Civ put a good dent in it, but it is far from dead and gone. Some days it looks like it is hardly even bruised.

I think observer is replying to you. S/he said studies prove the point, and you inadvertently dismissed those studies.

Of course, observer did not provide any such research.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/14/2019 09:31PM by Lot's Wife.

<phew!> But the Observer seems to know a lot about miserable lives and I wouldn't mind learning more how best to avoid one.

Well, "An observer" is the only poster here who believes BoJ has "a miserable life" whereas you'll get at least two votes in that regard.

Perhaps, EOD, it's time to give serious consideration to working on your mental healing techniques. . . for your own good.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/14/2019 09:44PM by Lot's Wife.

I use YouTube in the pursuit of good metal health...

Metallic
Judas Priest
Iron Maiden

Metallic ???

a

I thought Dave liked choo choo trains. Woo woo!

Leibniz wasn’t completely out to lunch. This is the best of all possible worlds. Descartes was just a better salesman.

I definitely see some of those things as woo. However, others such as yoga and meditation can have actual medical benefits and are recommended by doctors .

Here's something that occurs to me... The more there is of 'something for nothing' to a practice, the more woo-ish it is.

In order to obtain a good result from yoga and meditation, there must be an investment of effort. That's why we say "She practices yoga" to differentiate from those of whom it might be said, "She believes in yoga."

All you have to do to 'benefit' from astrology is to be born and pay, directly or indirectly, someone to tell you how totally wonderful you are...or pay heed to the warning not to wear purple tomorrow.

Yoga is just stretching so it is good for you. Leave the woo out of it.

Stretching plus a measure of meditation, also good for you.

Meditation is best done whilst on the john.

I achieve herbvana when I become one with the turnip.

And chiropractic is just a massage. Leave all the subluxation woo out of it. Physical therapy is a real thing. Subluxation is not.

Many people have received temporary pain relief from chiropractic but have never been cured of anything.

The placebo effect is not woo! I personally like Costco brand placebos, both for price and flavor!!

Not only are placebos not Woo, placebos can have side effects. Really. That's not exactly woo, but it does make my head spin.

My 2 shots at chiropractic were 'definitely not just a massage although it began that way to relax the muscles in my back' he moved specific areas on my spine (2) based on his examination with his hands, which relieved a lot of pressure.

I had been to a regular doctor and they 'failed miserably' which caused more damage, so I asked him about 'chiro' and he said some had been helped.

My first session (allowed me to walk with a lot less pain) and the second session didn't really do much but just got the bones in that area to move again more freely. I was so badly treated by the 'medical profession' my injury after chiro took longer than it would have if I would have gone 'chiro' to begin with.

That has been my only experience with 'chiro'. I know many who go in routinely ----- I can't understand that logic. I would go in only if I felt I needed an adjustment. Many minor aches and pains go away pretty quickly without needing any special work. From my experience I learned 'back exercises' that will quickly take care of minor stuff.

Dave the Atheist Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Many people have received temporary pain relief
> from chiropractic but have never been cured of
> anything.

The same can be said about mainstream medicine as well in many cases. And some of them have horrific side effects. Many mainstream treatments are risky or don't have a 100% cure rate.

BoJ is right to say "leave the subluxation" out of it. However, I have had chiro done, and it stopped me from having regular back pain so I'm not complaining. I don't believe it cures deafness or any "woo" like that. I do know it made me flexible again. I was getting six monthly cycles where I could barely walk or was in horrible pain, and chiropractic got rid of that.

So all I can say is it worked for me. I didn't go into it as a "believer", I went out of desperation, and it worked out cheaper than my doctor's suggestion. There isn't much "mystical" about chiropractic, it's just about getting joints moving and is practical in that sense.

Tell us about the chiropractors who have killed people.

Dave the Atheist Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Tell us about the chiropractors who have killed
> people.

Tell us about the doctors who have killed people. There are plenty of them. Tell us about thalidomide. Tell us about how the mainstream medical profession used to "cure" gay people using electric shock therapy. Tell us about medical personnel who sexually assault patients under anesthesia etc. There are plenty of them.

Doctors screw up all the time. Don't you read the papers? Or even the TV? Lawyers are continually advertizing for cases where a person has been injured or killed by a doctor. And the news stories are there too. The surgeon who has clamped the wrong blood vessel.

There is some risk in chiropractic, as there is in mainstream medicine. Chiropractic is actually low risk compared to certain medical procedures. Certainly more so than plastic surgery.

"Globally, it is estimated that 142,000 people died in 2013 from adverse effects of medical treatment; this is an increase from 94,000 in 1990. However, a 2016 study of the number of deaths that were a result of medical error in the U.S. placed the yearly death rate in the U.S. alone at 251,454 deaths, which suggests that the 2013 global estimation may not be accurate"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medical_error

Mainstream medicine saves many lives, but it's also responsible for ending a lot of them. If you go under the knife, you're at serious risk.

Those practices have always been around and were probably a lot stronger back in the 60s and 70s. I used to throw the I Ching back in the day. Whether you believe in the principles behind it or not, there is a lot of life wisdom in the text. I used to think of the text as "this is how things work."

I also enjoyed astrology, palmistry, and the Tarot for a period of time. I don't think I ever took any of it too seriously. It was more a way to pass the time and entertain myself.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/14/2019 06:21PM by summer.

Mormonism definitely gave pseudoscience a bad rap. Rigdon and those who unleashed the poonhounds of hell, shame on you.