There are only 4 BYUs in the world BYU Prove, BYU Idaho, BYU Hawaii and BYU Jerusalem. Gorden B Hinckley was the temple builder. But why have they not build a 5th or 6th BYU? Instead of focusing on lowering the mission age. BYU is known for being a good place to get married in the temple. That would make many long time tithe payers.

https://www.heraldextra.com/news/local/central/provo/provo-orem-top-the-charts-for-birth-rates-in-the/article_558777c9-94c6-5499-a52b-f4759ad1712b.html

Like, BYU Africa or BYU Brazil...I am serious. Bring academia from the Lords University to those who cannot afford otherwise. That's what Jesus would do.

I was thinking more of BYU California or BYU Arizona.

It's TITHING Russ Nelson wants from the impoverished Africans. Not educating them to be self-supporting or critical thinkers. To put a university in Africa would be a drain on church resources, so why bother educating the poor, impoverished souls who can barely feed themselves? When it's more important to take their widow's mite to feed the beast that is the roaring lion, TSCC.

The USA is having a student loan crisis. BYU is getting church funds which makes the tuition cheaper for the students.

Then they should leverage that. They have the money and the land. As long as a mission is becoming socialization, why not combine that time with education? The choice is mission or school so the stick and carrot are already there.

Home field advantage. They control the environment.

You have part of the answer in your question.

Gordon B. Hinkley talked about why the LDS Church did not seek to replicate BYU in other parts of the U.S. or other countries. He moaned that the universities are so so expensive--but mahogany for temples and conference centers or whatever is ok.

I believe another constraint is qualified faculty. There is a limited supply of high caliber college professors who want to swallow the restrictions of Mormonism.

I'm also not sure BYU is a good place for creating long-term tithe payers. On my mother's side of the extended family, I am the only BYU graduate and one of only two apostates from Mormonism (as far as I'm aware) on that side of the family. Not everyone at BYU fits into the cookie cutter Mormon lifestyle that gets portrayed in the Herald Extra--they have other ambitions more similar to normal college students.

BYU Jerusalem is an extension of the other three BYUs and is not a standalone university, but more like a study abroad center for the three BYUs. One cannot get a degree just by going to Jerusalem and you must be a student at one of the three BYUs to attend.

Although not a "BYU," the LDS Business College in Salt Lake City is a standalone two-year degree institution, owned and operated by the Church and complete with all of the equally ridiculous rules and regulations afforded to BYU students.

I'm thinking that abt 2/3 of U.S. population lives East & Gulf coasts, a location central or at least convenient would make sense.

they should 'guarantee' admission to those with a H.S. diploma who've served a mish with an honorable release & not otherwise ineligible, MHO.

Southern Virginia University is trying to satisfy that east coast spiritual void:


"Southern Virginia is a gathering place for members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. With a Code of Honor based on the values of the Church, we welcome students from all over the country to live and learn on our faith-aligned campus. More than 9-in-10 of our students are Latter-day Saints and 1-in-3 are Returned Missionaries."
--https://svu.edu/about/



Kind of makes you hiccup with pride, doesn't it?

--Without looking it up--no cheating!
--and what was the original purpose/demographic of Southern Virginia University.

Bonus Brag: Speaking of Virginia and higher education, my son gets his butter bars at Quantico in three weeks! (You folks know what "butter bars" are?)

Doesn't it refer to completion of an officers' candidacy program and attainment of commissioned officer status?

Congratulations!

Congratulations to your son on his commission into the Marine Corps as a 2nd Lt.

At the moment, he's just a candidate, but his performance reviews are strong, and he looks good for the final stretch.Ultimate position will be USN chaplain. The Marines are a way to work through age restrictions. I asked him, plainly, if he was dealing with any father issues, but he said he'd always had a bit of "inner Marine."



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/17/2019 12:17AM by caffiend.

elderolddog Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Southern Virginia University is trying to satisfy
> that east coast spiritual void:
>
>
> "Southern Virginia is a gathering place for
> members of The Church of Jesus Christ of
> Latter-day Saints. With a Code of Honor based on
> the values of the Church, we welcome students from
> all over the country to live and learn on our
> faith-aligned campus. More than 9-in-10 of our
> students are Latter-day Saints and 1-in-3 are
> Returned Missionaries."
> --https://svu.edu/about/


9/10ths are LDS/ChurchCo?

I looked at the website, but it doesn't tell total FTE enrollment; it might be a very small group where stats don't tell the whole story...

another site says it's about 900 (Not listed as FTE).


I'm thinking that most successful TBM BYU grads prefer the BYU diploma for their kids.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/15/2019 08:32PM by GNPE.

Back in my younger years where all I wanted is to get married to a RM I applied to BYU and did not get in. I should have applied there too. 1 in 3 is a RM it says.

My mom is from Buena Vista and went to SVU when it was Southern Seminary, a junior college for women. I looked into going there myself, since they had a wonderful horse program and I was into horses at the time. A few years later, they went bankrupt and turned their beautiful barn into a basketball court for Mormons. My mom's hometown has been Mormonized.

There were other colleges as well where a woman could bring her horse along with her to school -- Sweet Briar and Hollins come to mind. Virginia is definitely horse country.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/16/2019 09:50AM by summer.

Oh yeah, I know. I used to go to horse judging contests at Hollins. In fact, my aunt was the registrar at Hollins for years. Prior to that, she was the registrar at VMI, which is where my dad went and where I got married. Sweet Briar went bankrupt and almost closed a few years ago, but they managed to save the school, I think... for now, anyway.

By the time I was ready for college, I really wasn't wanting to go to a private all women's school, but my mom wanted to tour the campus. I remember they served us lunch and it was delicious. The riding coach said the riders had trouble fitting into their britches after a semester at Sem!

I ended up at Longwood, gave up riding, and pursued an English degree... and started studying music for fun. Someday, when we're no longer living this nomadic lifestyle, I'd like to buy some land and get a horse, even if it's just a pet. I miss their company.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/16/2019 10:35AM by knotheadusc.

You win a lifetime membership to exmormon.org. Rules and conditions apply.

Bwahahahaha... well, it helps to have a mom who went there when it was just for young ladies. She got to go for free because she played piano for the glee club.

Incidentally, one of the financial backers of SVU is married to a woman I knew at Longwood. They came to Virginia so he could run the local scary hospital. His wife joined the Cameratas, our auditioned group. I think she may have been the first Mormon I ever met. A few years later, her husband helped with the SVU deal. I think he was/is their CFO.

In my novel, a teacher (28) wants to isolate my heroine (real trophy wife potential) from the competition. He tries to sell her on Southern Seminary. (She has other ideas.)

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/24/2019 01:22AM by caffiend.

Part of the reason that YBU can claim to be a high quality university is because they can turn away a lot of applicants (since basically every TBM kid wants to go there). The more seats they create, the more they diminish the YBU "value."

Also, a temple is basically one building on a relatively small plot of land, staffed by volunteers. A university is many buildings on much more land, with significant staffing requirements.

I think you'd also quickly run out of students whose parents can pay the full freight of a four year university experience.

Remember, Appearances are of Top Value to ChurchCo.

yes, I agree another branch campus would be a strain on resources, but lower-division stuff is easy-squeeze!


I think that TAs & RAs + adjuncts could do most of the lower-division instruction.

Good question. I would say they have it set up this way because the church doesn't want to replicate the social justice work that the government is already providing. Right now all across the country we have state schools that are obnoxiously overly developed, expensive, and gobbling up tax revenues. They have 1st class research facilities, and the staff at each of these indoctrination sites are thought to be highly qualified and smart. In fact many are phds and the assortments.

Right now there are over 150 undergraduate degrees available to the gullible at UCLA. There are 7388 members of the faculty with over half of those not even educators but administrators and professional bureaucrats working in their respective pet projects. All there to bleed the beast (the tax payer). UCLA (the model for all education institutions) is no longer a place who's mission is to educate the young but it's mission is to study knowledge in an existentialist esoterianistic way.

Mormondom doesn't want to get into this mess.

I stand corrected. UCLA has 238,000 students and there is more than 190,000 or on faculty and staff. There are almost more on staff than are actual students!

https://www.google.com/search?rlz=1C1CHZL_enUS734US734&ei=TDItXY7iCYv2tAX85IDwCw&q=how+many+people+work+in+ucla&oq=how+many+people+work+in+ucla&gs_l=psy-ab.3..0i22i30.291262.296412..296629...1.0..2.321.3296.15j12j1j1......0....1..gws-wiz.......0i71j0i131j0.DEytFslFgiM

I looked at the first site returned by your search, and it listed 37,793 FTE faculty and staff. Are you sure you didn't report numbers for the entire state? Gotta read the fine print....

BTW, this education system you seem to think so little of has produced the richest, most entrepreneurial state in the country, and possible the world. So there's that.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/15/2019 10:58PM by Brother Of Jerry.

The 238000 figure is obviously for the ENTIRE U of California system, not just UCLA; UCSD, UCI, UCLA, UCD, UCSF and the rest that I cannot name without looking it up.

The number of students at UCLA is not 238,000 but rather 44,000, including both undergraduates and graduates. The number of employees is not 190,000 but rather 38,000.

In both cases you are off by a minimum of 400 percent.



https://www.apb.ucla.edu/campus-statistics/faculty

Perhaps some site gave her 23,800 undergrads, and the remainder grad, post-grad, and fellows?

But still, 38,000 employees? That's almost 1:1 for pity's sake!

Universities have so many Under-this, Deputy-that, Associate Assistant to the Vice-Chancellor of SomethingOrOther, etc. Then they hire adjuncts and grad student assistants, at starvation wages, no benefits, to do the actual teaching.

--theUnDistinguishedAssistantAssociateAdjunctVisitingFiendEmeritus.

Oh, I have concerns about higher education--including rising costs, bureaucracy, and the reliance on what are effectively indentured servants. But the notion that tertiary education is a waste is a canard that very few countries are foolish enough to embrace.

Improving education is a great idea. Dismantling it while everyone else is trying to match or surpass the United States is misguided at best.



ETA: The sources I consulted are the ones for which macaRomney provided a link. The undergraduate number at UCLA is 31,000 and that for graduate students is about 13,000.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/16/2019 12:34AM by Lot's Wife.

Lot's Wife Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
1) > But the notion that tertiary
> education is a waste is a canard that very few
> countries are foolish enough to embrace.
>
2) > Dismantling it while everyone else is trying to match or
> surpass the United States is misguided at best.

Neither of which I said, or implied. Oh well, in for a dime, in for a dollar.

But I will state that a huge amount of expenditure,probably a majority, goes to activities other than education. A local joke is that Harvard is actually a money-laundering racket masquerading as an institution of higher learning. On the more serious side, the state university system is top-heavy with a huge number of six-figure salaried political appointees. Many of them, having worked in appointed or elective positions for 20 years, are now busy (snort!) with their 2nd pensions.

This is typical of one-party states, be they California, Utah, Massachusetts, or New York.

Local muckracker Howie Carr provides specifics:

https://www.bostonherald.com/2019/05/30/carr-umass-chancellors-getting-mass-money/

Don't get me wrong--I'm all in favor of a quality education. I graduated from the Higher Institute of Hard Knocks, suma cum lousy.


--aBlueCollarBlissFiend.

I just want to clarify that I was in no way accusing you of those sentiments. They were points macaRomney raised, not you.

If you and I got into the specifics of education reform, we would probably agree on much.

Hope you'll take the time.

Our judiciary is worse. Judges start at about $186K, and work 32-week years, plus time off for conferences and conventions. Prospective gubernatorial candidates rake in huge contributions from lawyers hoping to make judge should their politician win the governorship someday.

If only we could clone Judge Judy!

The decline of the middle class is killing education. The solution of easy money for education created a cycle that requires dumbing down for the masses.

I think the problem is political. It follows the empowerment of the rich in post-Reagan America. Vietnam killed the idea of real education and started the University transition into high end trade schools. Faculty life is a jealousy engine because of its competitive nature and low salaries. Meanwhile the mentally of the rich pervades the administration to create another caste. It’s no wonder our kids are being taught the virtues of socialism.

Let's work through those issues.


-------------------
> Good question. I would say they have it set up
> this way because the church doesn't want to
> replicate the social justice work that the
> government is already providing.

"Social justice work" is jargon used to stop discussion. Can you explain what you actually mean or is the phrase intended to stupefy others as well as yourself?


-------------------
> Right now all
> across the country we have state schools that are
> obnoxiously overly developed, expensive, and
> gobbling up tax revenues.

The calculus of national power is simple. Education and technology produce wealth, military power, and global preeminence. Praising ignorance is conversely the key to national decline.

The "gobbling up of tax revenues" is likewise a problematic idea. What matters is whether the public investment in economic growth generates more revenues than it costs. More on that below.


-------------
> They have 1st class
> research facilities, and the staff at each of
> these indoctrination sites are thought to be
> highly qualified and smart. In fact many are phds
> and the assortments.

"Indoctrination sites?" What do you mean by that phrase? Do secular institutions do more damage through "indoctrination" than the LDS universities?


-------------------
> Right now there are over 150 undergraduate degrees
> available to the gullible at UCLA.

"Gullible?" The value of the average undergraduate degree is about one million dollars over the course of a career; and the unemployment rate for college graduates is less than half that of those with only a high school degree. That sounds pretty good, no? Because to the layman, at least, much lower unemployment and much higher income indicates a good deal.


---------------
> There are 7388
> members of the faculty with over half of those not
> even educators but administrators and professional
> bureaucrats working in their respective pet
> projects.

Let's just skip over that since your numbers appear to have come from an astrology chart.


----------------
> All there to bleed the beast (the tax
> payer).

Help me understand the logic here. An undergraduate degree (and most graduate degrees) ramps up a person's lifetime income, which puts him in a higher tax bracket and produces substantially more revenues for the government. How is that "bleeding the beast?"


---------------
> UCLA (the model for all education
> institutions) is no longer a place who's mission
> is to educate the young but it's mission is to
> study knowledge in an existentialist
> esoterianistic way.

What do you think should be taught in secondary and tertiary institutions? You have bemoaned the lack of interest in teaching Manifest Destiny, the value of destroying the Native American population, and the importance of ethnic and cultural uniformity. By contrast, you have denigrated Algebra II and, accordingly, any mathematics or science above that.

Assume that schools taught what you prefer. Who is going to generate the technologies to increase US power--nay, to maintain US power relative to other countries? Who is going to build the military systems or fly the planes that defend the United States?

More simply, in your view how exactly does Manifest Destiny replace engineers?



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/16/2019 12:17AM by Lot's Wife.

They could add BYU-City Creek so grads could learn how to develop important properties with tithing.

I think they should add BYU-Toilet so grads will be properly trained to clean toilets for eternity.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/16/2019 03:20AM by messygoop.

Add: Dress for success classes to that while shopping at City Creek.

And then add how to file for bankruptcy after the credit cards fail them when it comes to money management while keeping up appearances and the Mormon facade of looking good and having it all.

City Creek Mall is a haven for Fool's Gold (similar to TSCC.) Just another way to suck people dry and liquidate what they haven't got for things they probably can't afford to begin with.

The bargain basement days of ZCMI and Auerbach's are a thing of the past.

Several mission friends from different Latin American countries have earned degrees from byu through online distance education. Building more byu's isn't necessary in today's high tech world. I know at least a few of them paid tuition with loans from the church's perpetual education fund. TSCC comes out smelling like a rose from every angle.

I guess that Canadian Mormons can only send so many tithing dollars to support American universities. It's the only legal way that the church can get the tithing money out of Canada, so it's fair to say that a Canadian BYU is a no-go.

My understanding is that BYU Idaho has a large acceptance rate. As long as that's the case, there is no incentive to build another school.

Also I don't understand the need for all of these to be under the BYU banner. Why not have multiple universities like most religions?

Members are leaving in droves if they would want to keep the member rate or even increase affordable education might be the way to go. Instead of investing in the City Creak Mall investing in education. Education could lead to higher paying jobs could lead to more tithing money. When I was in the LA first ward singles ward a long time ago I remember the bishop giving a talk off how he was surprised that there have only been 2 weddings in the last two years with so many nice singles in this ward. He said that people should stop hanging out and start dating with the end goal of marriage in mind.

Leo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Also I don't understand the need for all of these
> to be under the BYU banner. Why not have multiple
> universities like most religions?


Mormons always have to lean on something else for credibility. Like when justifying garments they'll point out that some other religions have special articles clothing.

They can't use a name like "Notre Dame" for obvious reasons, so they reuse "YBU" because they think it already has credibility.

The thinking has to be done in LDS hotbeds.

There aren't enough morons.
The grades are to steep.
The youth know better...

Why name your University after a sexual predator who raped his followers wives and teenage daughters?

I happened to come across this list of closed colleges. (Some have merged or consolidated, without necessarily abandoning their campus.)

https://www.educationdive.com/news/tracker-college-and-university-closings-and-consolidation/539961/

It's interesting--I had no idea there were so many. If I were in the upper levels of BYU administration and/or the COB, I'd consider buying one or two of these small campuses and setting up BYU satellite schools.

One problem with the list-- they have two categories, public and private. Among the private are several religious or church-affiliated schools. It would be interesting to see that breakdown.