I haven't posted on this site in about a decade. When I walked away from the church 20 years ago, this place was my refuge and sanity. The spiritual and emotional abuse I suffered then at the hands of church leaders was horrific.
I have since gone on to build a wonderful new life and actually find myself again.
My husband's Mormon male relatives (one is in stake pres) are visiting this week. I'm feeling very anxious. Any suggestions on how to cope? My doctor says that I have PTSD from the abuse from 20 yrs ago, and that this anxiety is being triggered by feeling that my boundaries will be threatened by misogyny and partriarchy in my own home once again. I feel like I'm in a heightened state of alertness.
I need some advice from other exmos who will understand and be able to help me cope over the next week.
My plan: get out of the house & work alot
Thanks in advance.

Hi, Doobydoo! Welcome back.

I think when you are anticipating stressful interactions with other people, it always helps to rehearse possible responses in advance. It could be something as simple as, "I don't agree with that." Or, "It's 2019. We have female fighter pilots and generals. Women don't need to take a back seat anymore." You can also say a simple, flat, "No," or "I'm not going to do that." It helps if you look the person directly in the eye, lower your voice a bit, and speak very firmly. Looking someone in the eye as you speak is the best way to let the other person know that you mean business. Practice using your bathroom mirror if you need to.

Here's a fun technique when people ask you inappropriate questions: Remain silent, and just stare at them. People get very uncomfortable with this because they expect you to respond. The secret is, you don't have to. Have fun watching the other person squirm!

These are just some samples, but you are in the best position to anticipate what you might hear, and to practice some appropriate responses.

You've got this! Report back and let us know how it goes.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 08/03/2019 06:45PM by summer.

look em in the eye. I like it!
I will indeed let you know how it goes.
Thank you very much.

Oh, Doobydoo, I have been where you are! I have PTSD, too.

Summer's advice is great!

I read books on assertiveness, and took a class in assertiveness training, as part of my business curriculum. All the books are good. "When I say NO I feel guilty" had actual dialogs, of what to say to pushy, obnoxious people, similar to what Summer suggested. I used to practice these dialogs. Some of the Mormon men in my family were had no respect for others, yet my parents forced me to have relationships with these bullies, on the threat that my parents wouldn't love me anymore. I did draw a firm boundary, that they must not bully my children. They tried, and I had to curtail my visits to my parents' house and to family reunions. Instead, I had my parents come alone, and stay at my house for visits in the summers, and at Christmas--and we had a lovely times together.

Coping with family abusers is something you must do. It is a lot of bother, but your happiness is worth the trouble, no matter what you decide to do. Sometimes, I have had to "run away," but that is NOT a cowardly thing to do, when your happiness and the happiness of your family is at stake. There is no gold standard for exemplary behavior, when dealing with abusers. You try to do no harm, and you try to be as kind as possible, but firm boundaries must be set. Sadly, sometimes "no contact" is the only ultimate solution. In your case, "limited contact" is the best compromise.

Already, you are coping very well. You are in problem-sloving mode, and asking advice. Your proactive attitude will do a great deal to alleviate your anxiety. You can depend on YOURSELF to protect yourself from harm! Planning ahead helps me get rid of anxiety. Plan some "escapes".

You are wise to not let this situation ruin your relationship with your husband. In my experience, you really can't depend on someone else to intervene on your behalf. You need to do this for yourself. When someone does intervene, it is a pleasant surprise! My children have stood up for me, several times, and I have been proud of them for that! Your husband might surprise you! I suppose he invited those relatives, so don't feel guilty if you leave him alone with them. As you said, it's your husband's house, too. He can help you with the cleaning, making their beds, cooking their meals, and entertaining them. Yes, it's extra difficult, when they are actually staying in your house.

You could help your husband plan activities for the men, like an all-day round of golf, or a drive to see the marvels of the Utah canyon lands, or a fishing excursion. Have them camp out somewhere--lol! Take them to a movie.

How much you need to avoid these males, depends on how abusive they are.

I caught my brother going through my desk files, so I took my tax and financial and personal files to my office. My brother would snoop in my children's drawers, so I would lock their rooms, when I left for work. I set the boundary that he wasn't allowed at the office. When you set a boundary with a bully, be prepared to struggle to maintain that boundary! Stay strong!

Anyway, I decided that he could not come into my house at all, let alone stay there for 2 weeks at a time. My TBM parents never accepted the truth, so I had to lie: my kids and I were sick and contagious, I was going to be out of town on business, I would be busy with a business symposium. We had other house guests. Whatever it took!

I offered to pay for a motel for my brother, and my parents pitched in, too, but he still came to my house to spend the day, and for meals. I changed the locks to my house, but he had the neighbors let him in! Manipulative sociopaths like my brother can usually get their way!

I used to get almost hysterical, in anticipation of my brother's visits. He would criticize everything, and would report back to my parents, every detail. If a bed wasn't made, if my children watched a non-approved TV show, if he found evidence of coffee in my kitchen, if I wasn't wearing my garments, my TBM family would hear about it.

It's important to protect your privacy, so you won't feel "invaded." Lock up private things, like your medications and birth-control stuff. Keep your master bedroom locked. The Mormon home teachers snooped in my medicine cabinet--I caught them--and also in my kitchen--I was clean--no drugs or alcohol or coffee. Wear opaque clothes, so they can't see if you are wearing Mormon garments. It's not being paranoid. It will help you feel more secure and in control.

You will probably have to cook meals for these men. You can spend time away shopping for groceries. When you prepare meals, you can say that you like to be left alone to concentrate on your cooking. Most conversations happen at the dinner table, so get up and down from the table, to serve everyone. Then, when they are visiting after dinner, be in the kitchen cleaning up and doing the dishes. It's summer, and barbecues are the best! Have your husband do the cooking, and you can fuss around the yard and pull weeds, sweep the patio, chase bugs, etc.

Use your i-phone a lot. Talk with friends. If the stake president's conversation gets churchy, excuse yourself from the room with a phone-call, or something you have to do.

You aren't required to give an answer, as Summer says.

Learn how to change the subject. Have the TV on. Watch the news, or read the paper. You will be "present" for your guests, without "engaging" with them, if you know what I mean. Smile, and be pleasant and polite.

Your plan sounds like a great one! I used to escape to my work, when the bullies were around. Your work is a part of your life those males can't touch (hopefully). You can breathe at work. You have friends there. You are respected for what you do. I would tell my brothers I had an appointment, and go to the office after hours and work ahead, on future projects. I would drive up the canyon and read. It would feel good to get out of the house. I would go to lunch or dinner with a friend, and say it was a pre-planned birthday party that I couldn't miss. I don't have any guilt in lying to liars.

in b 4 ~ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j2AIqYVZ7gc



warning: dat dere language ~

well, that made me laugh, but it's also my tbm husband's house!

What I hate is when they shake my hand--over and over and over again. I also have been diagnosed with PTSD from my experiences with leaders.

I'd say go stay in a hotel. It is one thing to have to run into them now and then, but another if they stay at the house. I live by them and I avoid them. I have, however, written notes to the bishops when members overstep my boundaries and tell them to keep them away as I've resigned. Of course, the last few bishops have lived next door or 2 doors down.

P.S. Do you have any anxiety pills like Xanax or Klonopin that you can use at this time? I have a prescription, but it is for situations just like this.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/03/2019 10:37PM by cl2.

A shot of Fireball does wonders as well. It worked for me when I ended up hosting my ex-husband, his new wife, and my parents for my youngest son's graduation dinner. Did the shot with my oldest son in the kitchen.

I don't drink much more out of I'm too cheap--ha ha ha. But I agree with you.

Wow, this is like being trapped. Awful.

I think the biggest battle in these kind of situations, is in the mind.
In becoming aware of, consciously, and deliberately countering, those assumptions with which we have been programmed.

For example:
- The obligation to be responsible for the feelings of others; to make the other happy.
If realized, consciously, we can see that this is a ridiculous idea: how can I possibly be responsible for the feelings of another?
The exact same situation can offend one, and make another laugh. The response is solely the responsibility of the responder. Even if trying deliberately to offend someone, there may be no offense taken. So discard that burden of false responsibility.

Upon this lie, is founded the "guilt trip" - a tool of manipulation. Seen clearly, one can no longer be "guilted."

- The obligation to defer/deference to "authority."
This is an interesting one, because we are wired neurocognitively (I say as a result of evolutionary biology/psychology) to "follow the leader." So the initial impulse from the "hindbrain" is to deference and obedience to an authority.
But we also have this massive cortex, with capacities for awareness and reason, where we can be aware of this automatic hindbrain impulse, and choose to follow it - or not. We can choose how to respond, whether this person is an authority -- or not. If seen clearly, it is realized these have only the authority we give to them. And nothing more.

An LDS stake president - who, other than a Mormon, would give this person the time of day? It's in the mind. That's where is the battle.
Do we give homage to L. Ronnie Hubbard? (Who?) Putin? No one is owed anything.

We have the power to choose.

There are a multitude of others.
We find them, one by one, by being curious, open; by going within.

P.S.
Another favorite tool of manipulation is shame - so ubiquitous as a tool of coercion/control, decided to write specifically.

Shame is analogous to the authority one: authority can be given to not only a person, but to ideas/beliefs.
It's a tough one because in like manner we are wired to defer and fall in line with the belief/rule, and shame is just a social tool to ensure everyone conforms, like good little ducklings.

Well, in like manner, we can be conscious of this "hindbrain tendency" to accept unconsciously and fall in line - and now consciously seeing it - choose our own response (which could reasonably include "well, this is just a crock of crock").

So, the LDS cannot shame into conformity anyone who does not give them the power to do so. But again the real battle, is internal.

Hi doobydoo, this sounds awful and I’m not surprised that you are anxious. It sounds like the consolation is that this doesn’t happen very often. Summer gives some good advice. I would definitely have a plan in place for every eventuality in this situation- in my experience this really does help with my anxiety. Anxiety is fear. Write down every single thing you are afraid of happening or see yourself having to deal with and really think about every possible option you have in how you can respond - including things you wouldn’t necessarily consider, such as leaving - then decide what is the best thing you can say and do for YOU.

The assertiveness book that Breeze mentioned - When I Say No I Feel Guilty - is brilliant. Funny enough when my daughter and I left the church she read this and I saw it transform her life, then she made me read it.

This post caught my attention because my tbm brother and sister in law are visiting next week (not staying with anyone though). I have a different problem in that they are showing signs of not even wanting to see me. They are then taking my mother and daughter (both not mormon, my brother and I were converts) on vacation the following week and I wasn’t invited.
Anyway, should they get in touch when they get here next week, we usually get together at my mothers house. I have tremendous anxiety when this happens because of how weird they are towards me and because I found out they have spoken badly about me behind my back whilst being super friendly to my face. I literally had no idea until 18 months ago, and I left the Morg in 2009, so that’s a lot accumulated judgment I didn’t know about. My way of dealing with it is to make sure my car is not blocked in anywhere, and that I have slip on shoes to put on, so that should I feel bad in anyway, I know I can make an excuse and just leave. It’s not that I don’t want to see them, I love them but I have to put my own well-being first. If I’m getting bad vibes beforehand, then I will be super busy with working, socialising and doing my own thing. Funny enough this also makes me feel better too, and I’m able to interact from a place of grounded-ness and authenticity. Over the years I’ve gone from worrying about judgment and taking on their perception of me being an apostate, to demonstrating what healthy behaviour is like and what a normal non-Mormon life is. After all most of the world is not mormon! To do this though I have to be ok and keep my distance, if not physically then at least emotionally. At the very least, I have to take breaks if I’m with them for any length of time. I also journal what happens as it is my way of validating myself and my own reality, which is of course very different to their reality and their warped perception of me. I was quite surprised though to discover that they are actually afraid of me and find my independence quite threatening. Sometimes things are not as they seem; that’s the last thing I would have assumed and I’m not sorry about it.

The point is, I will act in a way that reflects my own reality and morals, rather than in a way that they expect or demand in order for me to be accepted or to avoid any unpleasantness. Any other response from me would be giving in to the passive-aggressiveness that is so common from mormons, and to manipulation. I won’t do it: this is emotional abuse. This has really helped break me out of the PTSD anxiety/hyper adrenaline, fight-flight response, at least when I’m not with them. Having said that, if I feel that is being triggered by them, I listen to it and act according to what I’ve already planned; it’s not easy to think straight when triggered so it helps to be prepared. It is super tricky if your husband is mormon and they are in your house. But I would still aim, for your own sanity, to be true to yourself and stand up for yourself and your OWN beliefs and standards, and how YOU expect to be treated in Your own home. Yes it’s your husbands home too, which is the reason they get to stay in the first place. But the rest of the floor is yours. You are already being fair in having them stay; in planning how you will respond to anything, don’t compromise yourself. This also sets the stage for future interactions, and in the long term is better.

I’ve been quite surprised that in having my own boundaries I have regained some respect. After all, they already know I disagree with them. What they didn’t know until more recently is that I don’t care what they think, and I am perfectly happy with myself and my own decisions. This is threatening to them, but that’s a good thing, because even though they’re avoiding me (it will be interesting to see what happens next week) at least they are not imposing themselves on me.
You probably have more experience with this than me, but I hope some of this might be helpful rather than patronising. Let us know how it goes?