Are we bad people for being critical of the Mormon cult? I have been severely critical of them for about 20 years. What do you think will happen to us if there is a God?

If it's true it's not bashing.

The only way to make something better is to criticize its faults, so that improvements can follow. The result of such criticisms are improvements. If the Mormon church is the dystopian society that I believe it is, then my words serve to improve the lives of the Mormon people. If I am wrong, then nobody will listen to me. If the church (by some cosmic accident of fate) is true, then God should thank me for saying what he should have said. I trust my eternal fate to my own decisions more than I trust some guy in Salt Lake who I have never met before. Especially when he is so wrong so much of the time. If the church isn't true then god should thank me for exposing a fraud that has used his name to bring harm to others.

^^^^^^

One thought I would add. Mormons are taught NOT to speak out for themselves so I think you are feeling discomfort in doing this and therefore you refer to it as "bashing".

I remember being taught at Mormon church the saying "if you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all". Forget that. If someone is hiding the truth yet again, lying, intimidating, etc. etc. etc., the truth needs to be told.

If there is a God and He defends Joseph's Myth raping his followers wives and teenage daughters then I'll tell that God to go fuck himself.

God doesn't need to defend rape. Evolution is cool with it. Do you hate evolution?

Elder Berry Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> God doesn't need to defend rape. Evolution is cool
> with it. Do you hate evolution?

We're not gorillas or chimpanzees, having morals and ethics is what separates us from the beasts of the forest.

>> "We're not gorillas or chimpanzees, having morals and ethics is what separates us from the beasts of the forest."

So lets see......

Here are a few reasons animals kill....food, protection, reproductive rights, etc.

Here are a few reasons humans kill.....not getting a chicken sandwich because the fast food chain ran out, a driver cut in front of them, they wanted a persons shoes, etc.

Yes, morals and ethics is what separates us.

Shoes are an important part of our evolution.

Sorry, that was my shellfish genes talking. I'm back to my hominid shelf.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/11/2019 05:57PM by Elder Berry.

One, I don't think there's a God. Can't prove there isn't, but for me, I just don't see any convincing evidence.

Two, bad people are...bad. We've come to a community based upon Mo'ism specifically but cults suck and when you engage in behavior society in general knows is wrong, it's normal for people to call that out. A social code of justice has been around for a long time. I can't make them stop. I can't fix it all, I can't arrest or imprison cultists for being the way they are, but I won't be silent while they're doing it. Expressing disapproval about bad people and bad behavior doesn't qualify as abusive in my book, any more than a fire alarm is abusing a fire.

Three: say for argument that there IS a God. What deity would chastise a lesser being for making fun of, or calling out, or castigating an organization and individuals who consistently engage in hurting other lesser beings? If there's a God who is mad at me for calling a spade a spade, well, any eternity spent outside of that God's little exclusive club is fine by me, because that God isn't my idea of fine company. If you're gonna create a neato universe and then wind up being a total grasshat, then count me out.

Four: We are expressing opinions, we are not bashing with baseball bats or anything. I have never seen violence advocated here, other than vague divine retribution or getting what's coming to 'em someday type stuff, never real lashing out. That isn't tolerated nor should it be.

So, sticks n stones and whatnot. I think any decent God can tell the degree of offense. If not, see item three. :-)

We aren't bad. We are plain vanilla human, and we are neither angel nor demon.

Well said!

As a victim of Mormon physical abuse, mental abuse, rape, and spousal abuse, I agree that we need to speak out.

The past is over, and we weren't able to protect ourselves, when we were little children, and when we were brainwashed Mormons.

It's all about protecting ourselves now, and preventing further harm in the future. It's about protecting others, too.

Often, I have warned others about known pedophiles and abusers, and the potential victims have not heeded my advice. For example, my friend did not read her High Priest fiancee's court records of his divorce, which illustrated, under oath, that he had beaten his ex-wife. She married him anyway, and he beat her, and destroyed her family. I warned my Mormon nephew, his wife, and his little girls that my RM brother was a pedophile, and they just laughed at me. My brother molested them. They are in their thirties, now, and have never had a boyfriend, and want to see a psychiatrist, but my Mormon nephew doesn't believe in therapy.

Still--for your own peace of mind, you are morally obligated to at least tell people the truth. No matter the outcome, you know you are doing your best. I would rather have a petty "MorGod" or the Russ Nelson clones mad at me, than for me to be mad at myself for staying silent.

Silence means you are condoning these bad things.

“What do you think will happen to us if there is a God?”

God will give us high fives.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/10/2019 05:28PM by babyloncansuckit.

It is my opinion that bashing serves no viable purpose.
If you disagree say "I disagree". That is your right.
It is your right to go your own way!
It is not your right to forcibly interfere with the right of another human being to choose their way.
No matter what the argument:
"A person convinced against their will is of the same opinion still!

I like to make fun of the solemnity with which so many mormon leaders want to imbue both themselves and their religion.

Doesn't it make sense that no one can live all the rules of mormonism, that no one dies a perfected being? which means that ghawd has 'dirt' on everyone. EVERYONE!

Unless, apparently, they've shown a proper attitude and been forgiven before their deaths via the Second Annoying. Meaning ghawd plays favorites! How many people do you know who deserve who didn't get it, and the reverse?

I wonder how many Brown or Black people have gotten the Second Annoying? I bet it's a pretty small number.

The notion arises that ghawd has already judged a huge percentage of his offspring based on their performances in the Pre-Existence, where his charming wit and his perspicacity were so front and center that maybe 92.6667% of his children, who knew him, essentially face to face, were so unimpressed that they blew their chances to be like him.

I truly have no respect for mormon ghawd nor for the mormons who want to curry his favor by posturing and lying, their pretenses that they know stuff that the rest of us don't, that they're 'tight' with ghawd. Ef'em all.

Now what percentage of supposed TBMs are in that category? I could guess, but it would actually be a very uninformed guess. I always smile when I meet supposed 'active' mormons, because maybe they'll surprise me by being non-judgmental.

Yeah, that like happens a lot! The offset is that in my opinion, it sucks to be a true-believing mormon.

Mormons are doomed to live out the consequences of being Mormon. Not even Jesus can save them from their bad taste in religions, and certainly not their prophet. There are worse belief systems, but this one sticks out like a sore thumb because of its determination to stay sucky while the rest of the world progresses. They could do without the emancipation of slaves, women’s suffrage, and protections against polygamy.

It was never quite the same after Smith...

When I was a believer I thought leaders would do the right and there was ZERO oversight of leaders. The church's plan was and still is "they are expected to do the right thing so they will" continues to fail. Just look at all the perverts that are getting exposed and thank goodness people are going to the police instead of deferring to the brethren to dish out proper justice and discipline.

As long as the church continues to send missionaries and members to rescue Brother Goop and have a dialogue that I have erred in my ways, then I have the responsibility to correct them about LDS Corp.

Using "God said so" to bash others is how religions get away with disparaging others (e.g. gays, nonbelievers, etc.). It's cowardly since in reality they design the god to hold the same dislikes they want to bash.

That said, there is a difference between denigrating ideas, principles, beliefs and claims and denigrating the people. This is a very gray area. We often hear some Christians say, "Hate the sin, love the sinner" and go on to demonstrate they hate both in some cases. It's hard to see the distinction.

It's the same here. Some people are so toxic in their Mormonism that they ARE Mormonism. For the most part, they are sheep-ish victims simply following the cultural status quo. We were victims of Mormonism. Other religious people are victims of their religion and most don't recognize it.

I'm not hoping to derail this into a discussion of weird Sam Harris or his views about Islam, but he makes a valid point that people do not want to acknowledge. He is very critical of the ideals and tenants that are in black in white in their holy book, no matter how people try to cherry pick or spin them. Many people view this as personal attacks on Muslims but he makes a big point to explain the difference. He is not attacking Muslim people in general. So it is with Mormons, and Mormons take criticism a whole lot better than Muslims.

So, I admit it is hard to bash Mormonism without it being interpreted as bashing Mormons. In many cases, we do intend to bash certain types of Mormons in addition to their tenants. For the most part, though, I believe we are criticizing the LDS doctrine, culture and leadership. The people are reflections of the indoctrination.

A nevermo perspective: I never bash followers, but I do hold leaders responsible. At some level they know what they're doing.

I don't give Mormons a pass, blaming it all on the leaders. At a certain point the brainwashing is self-administered. At one time there was no way to know, but believing the unbelievable has become a choice in the Information Age. You raise your hand to the square in support of bigoted leaders, you cannot claim to be different.

"A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves." Edward R. Murrow.

I find "bash" to be a poor choice of words for most any of the posts here. Telling it like it is no holds barred is more what I see.

There is a God, and He never, ever said LDS - not a single part of it - was OK.

"any eternity spent outside of that God's little exclusive club is fine by me, because that God isn't my idea of fine company. If you're gonna create a neato universe and then wind up being a total grasshat, then count me out."

There are those mormons who are the exception to the rule, but not all that many.

Myself, I will continue to speak out, why????? I hope somewhere someone has heard what I had to say as it sure doesn't seem like mormonism has changed much in the 37 years since I found out my boyfriend was (well, is) gay.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/11/2019 07:29PM by cl2.

Let's say there is a god. Most likely I will bash said entity. Almost certainly.

I think there are one or two here who would abuse Mormons as individuals as people, even though they used to be Mormons themselves. I think hurting the individual members does little to the corporation as a whole.

"who would abuse Mormons as individuals as people"

What does this line mean?
What do you mean by abuse?
Can you give a hypothetical example?

Anon for just now Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I think there are one or two here who would abuse
> Mormons as individuals as people, even though they
> used to be Mormons themselves. I think hurting the
> individual members does little to the corporation
> as a whole.


If you are talking about a specific person, just call them out. No reason to be vague about it.

A bad person is someone who exploits and lies to get gain (e.g. to get a teenager to sleep with you, sleeping with other men's wives, taking money from gullible people, using fear as a deceiving mechanism to get gain, etc.). For example, Joseph's Myth, et al.

No, we don't bash, we simply point out the truth. Like I told a missionary the other day, "there is absolutely no truth or evidence of the BOM whatsoever...no linguistic, archeological, cultural, or physical evidence of any kind. You do not know the whereabouts of the BOM and you never will. You are the victim of pure unadulterated indoctrination by a cult Elder from the time you were born..." He thought I was being mean and bashing him but I wasn't.

I think there is a big difference between "bashing Mormons" and bashing Mormonism.