I really don't want to be back here. And no, I am not rejoining the cult. There are some things about this forum that bother me.

The recent Bednar thread is a good example. Why do forum members post stuff like this? Is there any story behind it or do they make it up because they are bored and or bitter about their time in the cult? Others just post a link to a news story with no explanation.

If you are going to post information, there should be more backing to the story. Why is David Bednar involved with Brazil. Why would he go to Brazil, if at all? Is he involved in a scandal? The Bednar thread has about 1,000 unanswered questions. As do most threads in this forum. I just don't get it. Why post information with no backing?

I am going to assume that almost everyone here has taken a critical reading class at some point in their life. The point of that class is to find out what information is real and to get the main points. Please use that information when posting here at RFM.

Please read this with an open mind. I am not railing on anyone, this is just a general opinion. Can we all provide as much information as possible when posting a story or thread or what ever? You can still remain anonymous. Thank you.

You have posted any number of conclusory statements and, if I remember correctly, never provided any supportive documentary evidence. It is therefore difficult to take this post seriously.

That's where my critical thinking skills, such as, take me.

Here's the thing. No one is obligated to take part in topics that don't interest them, particularly if it's something that just upsets them.

I read what interests me and I skip over the things that don't. I've been here for a long time and I've never had a problem.

I have seen many, many posts over the years accompanied by hard hitting well documented information that was fascinating and important, however . . .

Never underestimate the power of light mindedness which deserves a place at the table as well. Loud laughter or a bit of chuckling, yea--even silliness, can often carry as much weight as the hard hitting journalistic style you crave. Many have varied purposes in hanging out here---buffet style. Like, many are here just to give support or soothe hurt I dare say.

Sometimes it feels good to make fun of the "Lord's Anointed" because it is a marker of the new path taken in life. Proving what Bednar represents is beside the point. That could be preaching to the choir.

I understand your position. When i first came on the board i was very disappointed. Nobody had let go and still followed the church operation closely which i believe is unhealthy. Following the religion that harmed you will only make you worse, i can attest to this. I decided to leave the board on purpose for quite a while because i was getting triggered over and over and just focused on improving in the real world and i did quite well since i left. I want the board to continue even without me because i do think it serves a purpose and does help people. I don't even mind being blocked by the zipper because zipper has proven to be a good individual and i respect any decision he makes for the good and health of the board. Like you i still have a lot of rage towards that operation but any move i make on the operation would land me in jail. I was up against a loaded deck since childhood and i realized this at a young age to the point where i thought there was no future for me. The only thing i could think of to truly win was to walk away and not acknowledge any of it. Try to get as independant and strong as possible so any of their actions would not affect me. I think if we help each other heal we will all have a better future .

You may feel rageful, but you come across as sincere and open-minded and generous. Those are rare traits.

It's nice to have you here.

I'm not as angry as i once was but i have had a lot of help and therapy so far to get to this point. Part of the help was this board. Things said did sink in. I did think my life was over and had no hope of having any resemblance of what i considered to be a real life. I had no life being in or around that operation. Do i know the damage that operation can do to a human being? Yes i do. Will it be valuable to some people that i survived it all? I'm not sure. Do i have the knowledge of a lot of the people here? No i don't and i admit that. I get a better perspective from people that have more knowledge than me. I still have a mind that can learn so i am learning. In religion my mind just stagnated with the same exact subjects being taught over and over. My mind did not improve because it was so repetitious and monotonous.

Lot's Wife Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You may feel rageful, but you come across as
> sincere and open-minded and generous. Those are
> rare traits.
>
> It's nice to have you here.

I actually owe you an apology for arguing with you in the past lottie. I owe a lot of apologies really. I did not think i was going to make it after i left that operation.

You owe no apologies.

We argue with our friends here. You are unique in the sense that very few people are willing to question or even change their opinions. That characteristic speaks highly of you.

I guarantee that there are people here, some who post and more who don't, who benefit from what you have experienced and what you write.

Don't forget that, Warrior.

Thanks lottie. That actually means a lot coming from you.

"Nobody had let go and still followed the church operation closely which i believe is unhealthy."

You do understand if all those "let go" and don't visit RfM, the result will be a bunch of church members or newly ex-mormons, asking questions that no one will answer. You can't throw out the veterans, for all rookies and expect to have a successful team.

Ok i do agree with you there. The veterans do know their stuff and have incredible wisdom and knowledge that is very valuable right now. I did not see or realize this before. I was very close-minded at the time.

Warrior71783 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> Nobody had let
> go and still followed the church operation closely
> which i believe is unhealthy. Following the
> religion that harmed you will only make you worse,
> i can attest to this.

I put it in my rear view mirror and mostly forgot about it for about 2 decades (except for the inevitable interactions with Mormon friends and relatives).

But I increasingly find "Mormonism and why people believe in it" to be a fascinating thing to study and think about. In many ways it's a petri dish containing most of the different strains of pathogens of irrationality and group-think that plague humanity in general. The different ideologies and cults that carry the pathogens may superficially appear different, but the symptoms are usually substantially similar.

The whole "you can leave it, but you can't leave it alone" disparagement that Mormons often throw at exmos who seem to be obsessed with criticizing Mormonism is a self-serving meme thrown out there by anxious Mormons hoping to silence critics (and therefore silence the throbbing cognitive dissonance that critics cause).

But there is no particular reason why victims of the mind fork known as Mormonism should be required to stop examining and analyzing what they've been through. It can take years--even a lifetime--to debug your mind by identifying one piece after another of malicious code that was installed in your mind by Churchco over many years...which, in the case of BICs, came in through programming that started being downloaded into them before they were even old enough to tie their own shoes.

In my view, anyone capable of independent thought and critical thinking is a big enough boy or girl to know how to deal with posts and opinions that they don't like. In the OP's situation, wouldn't it have been better to simply inquire on the relevant thread whether the post was intended as a joke or whether it was based on some news story that OP had missed? Why condemn the entire RFM website because a particular post was confusing or did not provide context?

Every so often someone (a "dissatisfied customer") comes to the board and after a few days they decide that they know how it should operate. They then issue their list of demands for changes, including everything from how moderators are to behave in the future and details as to how all posters need to change their modes of discourse, so that RFM will be a more satisfactory place for the dissatisfied customer and better meet the dissatisfied customer's expectations.

In these scenarios, everybody else is wrong. The dissatisfied customer is right and demands recognition of his/her rightness.

Eventually, it starts to sound like a picky motel guest calling down to the front desk and making demands that far exceed anything that the motel guest has any right to expect (particularly at the low, low cost of the room to the guest).

"And I expect Belgian chocolates on the pillow every night and a bottle of champagne chilling in a bucket of ice, on the house of course, and would you be so kind as to bring me some hot steamed towels at precisely 10:30 pm? And don't forget to bring me copies of the 5 newspapers that I wrote down on the post-it note that I gave you when I checked in. They should be outside my door tomorrow morning, no later than 6:30 am. And don't forget that I require my wake-up call to be made live by a female. No recordings. No beeps. If you take care of these tiny little requests without fail, I may give you a generous tip of up to $1.50 per day, while I remain as a guest at your sub-par lodging facility."

Thats a pretty awesome way to look it. As my mind is debugging over the years i get what you are saying. I was born in the operation but my mind actually knew something was wrong about the whole thing. The repetitious nature. The same songs every week, same lessons about prophets and not jesus haha, rarely taught about jesus besides a picture on the wall or using his name at the end of a prayer. Having to dress up over and over and over or you were seen as a hellion. Nonstop rituals like prayer. If my psychologist knows anything about me it's i hate rituals with a passion. Its all an insane study of professional brainwashing of children and professional mind control of adults. Whoever came up with the model knew what they were doing and copied mind control tactics that i believe had been implemented first in WW2 to POWs to make them change sides to their captures ideals. I could be wrong though its just what i read from a steven hassan book.

Hi There StillAngry?,

& now i feel special since you singled me out...appreciate you taking the time!

I AM a critical reader & I AM a critical thinker.

& that's why I'm here on RFM...YOU???

Truly didn't mean to bother you personally with my post.

I'm certainly not bored but INDEED I AM "bitter about my time in the cult" using your own words.

You see...through NO fault of my own I congenitally inherited this so-called religion from my parents. I spent 2 years of my one-&-only-life lying to good & decent folks because it was expected of me or face the wrath of loved ones and potential loved ones who would have considered me "unworthy" by not going on that mission.

If true justice exists in this world then it is my sincerest hope & desire that these CHARLATANS (like Bednar et al.) who keep perpetuating the credence & legitimacy of this Real Estate acquisition Corporation a.k.a. the Mormon Church...all the while destroying families in its wake...will someday get their well-deserved & rightful comeuppance whether it be JAIL-TIME or being forced to flee to wherever...YOU pick the destination...Brazil was just an easy mark & example as it was a haven for escaping Nazis/Gestapo criminals after WWII.

& to make sure you completely understand where I'm coming from I DO consider these CHARLATANS (lke Bednar et al.) to be CRIMINALS in every sense of the word as they have destroyed generations of my family & continue to get away with it being completely unchecked & without personal consequences to themselves.

So now that's the short answer to your concerns. Please read this with an open mind...& thanks again for noticing!

Now ask me how i really feel!!!

Or so it seems to me...

It would be nice to see those guys go to jail along with my parents. In a just society ruled by a benevolent leader they would easily be put in check and put behind bars without question. Everyone seems to think they have gotten away with it. I think the universe sees what is going on and what has gone on. Why else would someone like me that so easily attempted suicide because of the hell i went through in that operation be here still. I didn't even get to live a real life so suicide was like the easiest choice ever. But here i am still. I truly think no one got away with anything if i am being helped by the universe. Something saw or is still seeing what is going on down here. The universe is not happy with that operation i can tell you that much. I wished total destruction on that operation and on god or jesus for most of my life and yet i am receiving help still. Very bizarre. I don't get it. The corrupt may get whats coming to them after all. Not sure. Walking an unknown road here.

Problem today with RFM:

Too many posts regarding personal health issues, nobody really cares.

Too many posts concerning frivolous church issues. Enough about garments, etc, what is the big deal?

Too many off topic posts (the same handful of people that post daily so that it makes them feel important - please stop)

Too many immature posts where we refer to the LDS church president as "Rusty". Getting very old and tired.

"immature posts where we refer to the LDS church president as 'Rusty'."

And just how would YOU prefer the rest of us to refer to him? Asking so that we can appear more mature in your eyes; that's important to us, you know…

“Too many posts concerning frivolous church issues. Enough about garments, etc, what is the big deal?”
These issues are NOT frivolous to members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Most of us here are former members. Garments are a great example of a non-frivolous issue. We were seriously and solemnly taught that garments are sacred and have power. It’s very therapeutic to discuss (and sometimes laugh at) our former beliefs.

“Too many immature posts where we refer to the LDS church president as "Rusty". Getting very old and tired.”
Mormons believe that Nelson is a literal prophet, and that he is God’s mouthpiece on earth. I don’t think it’s immature to dismiss a charlatan by using a nickname.

otowndrone Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Problem today with RFM:
>
> Too many posts regarding personal health issues,
> nobody really cares.

The people who post care. The people who respond care. If you don't care, simply give such posts a pass, like the passover angel. Unless you're a victim of demonic possession and are forced to click on and read entire threads on subjects you have no interest in, it's really easy to skip over such posts.
>
> Too many posts concerning frivolous church issues.
> Enough about garments, etc, what is the big deal?

Who says garments are a frivolous issue? Grown people buying underwear designed for them and sold to them by a church-affiliated business is frivolous? I guess we can label everything as "frivolous" and just stop talking about the nuttiness of the cult altogether. Wouldn't that be convenient...for nutty cult members who wish critics would stop pointing out the nuttiness.
>
> Too many off topic posts (the same handful of
> people that post daily so that it makes them feel
> important - please stop)

Again, just pretend you're the passover angel and pass over the topics you don't like. If the O/T posts become excessive, the moderators will probably start deleting.

> Too many immature posts where we refer to the LDS
> church president as "Rusty". Getting very old and
> tired.

Yes, we should always refer to him respectfully and use all of his preferred titles, for he is the Prophet, the Seer, the Revelator, the President and, yeah, even the Special Witness of the Name of Jesus Christ. Of course 99% of the people who visit this site have determined that he is a fraud, but I guess it's "immature" to refuse to play along with the fraud? That makes sense...NOT! What if you found out that William Snodgrass, the "chief surgeon" at a local hospital, was found to have false credentials, and had spent decades covering up evidence of malpractice? Would it be immature to refer to that person as "Willy" instead of referring to him as Chief Surgeon William Snodgrass?

Your complaints sound like those of a TBM or a person who is still straddling the fence-- one leg on each side. Your confused loyalties could be affecting your discernment.

I like 'the hinckster' nickname. I find that one very amusing.

While there are more than a few explicit reasons for being here, in my mind the only reason for staying here for more than a few weeks is "community".

We are not solving the larger problem of mormonism and its negative effects. What we do amounts to chipping away with a dull butter knife at the base of Wyoming's Devils Tower. We pale in comparison to the numbers of exmos on Reddit's r/exmormon, of which there are 142,000 registrations. Many are one-time, throw-away accounts, but they way outnumber the participants of RfM.

I'm here to help when I can, but my prime motivation is stimulation and laughter. I want to be part of MY herd!

Before it folded, I was happy over at PostMo, but then when Saucie and I got serious, I figured I should check this place out. And now I'm here, what... one, two, three hours a day? I have to be averaging 10 to 20 hours per week.

Like probably the majority, I've learned to skip topics that I am pretty sure aren't going to appeal to me. I absolutely will not read a thread that has to do with saying goodbye to a pet. Crap, just typing that makes the back of my eyes start to moisten!

I'm here because you poor bastards deserve me. You have my sincerest condolences.

I love you old dog. Screw it i said it.

"Community" Indeed. One of life's greatest gifts is to be understood. "This is the place," as someone once said.

shown to the lds leaders and THEN I realized that it wasn't the gays I should be angry at for what happened to my life, but the LDS LEADERS for what they did to me. Just like I told my son just a few hours ago, NOBODY CAN UNDERSTAND what they did to me. I went to them with the most important question of my life and they not only didn't have answers, they had the WRONG ANSWERS. They used and abused me and my husband and my children. Now I have a daughter who is TBM. She is the ONLY grandchild/great grandchild of my parents who is mormon. I'm the one who left from KNOWING it was untrue and the rest of my family, I guess they were ahead of me, my niece and nephews never bought into it and neither did my son. My siblings who left in their teens still believe some things and still think they are going to hell because they aren't being good mormons, and they all drink to excess.

When I finally realized where my anger should be directed, I started to heal. I come here often because it is a break from my job, which I do on-line, and I also read here when I am having my lunch and right now my dinner as work arrived LATE and I'm still working.

I can come here when I go to the temple for pictures after my daughter's wedding and my TBM aunt sends me a play by play of the temple wedding. I WAS MARRIED THERE. I didn't need her play by play. She even counted the steps to the sealing room from the chapel to put in my e-mail. WHO DOES THAT? She gave me a book of mormon last Christmas with a letter telling me that my mother had said to her while in the temple to help save her family and so she sent us ALL book of mormons for Christmas including my never mo boyfriend. Most of the book of mormons are still sitting at my parents' house as my sister, who still goes to the church, hasn't picked up those for her family, which is the largest of the bunch of us. I'm the only one who has picked mine up I believe. Instead of burning the books, I gave them to my TBM daughter as I felt I should treat them with respect as my aunt was trying to do a "good thing."

I do have PTSD from my experiences with mormonism. I do well to be able to come here and LAUGH OUT LOUD at the things people say. It helps me deal with what happened to my life. I've been in therapy for over 23 years. Does that tell you anything? I can't escape the church. It is part of my life. After all, my dear daughter, a twin, is TBM!!!! I didn't even get to go to her wedding and I've sacrificed more for my kids than most people ever will. My twins turn 34 on Thursday. I raised them from 9 on up without any financial help from their father. Who the lds leaders told me to marry. Okay, I am the only one who took any responsibliity.

I even got the most rude letyter I've ever received from Boyd K. Packer when I wrote to him when I had been suicidal for 18 months over my boyfriend being gay and I sincererly asked for his answers and he replied with a letter that nearly drove me over the edge. If my sister hadn't been there when I read it, I don't k now what would have happened. I have had passive suicidal ideation since March 22, 1983, the day my boyfriend told me he is gay.

So if this doesn't fit your cup of tea here at RfM, we have people come and go CONSTANTLY. Some wonderful people have left us and we miss them. Some are dead. One committed suicide--one of my favorites. One of the gay men who treated me with respect. If you don't like it here, nobody is holding you hostage.

stillangry? Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If you are going to post information, there should
> be more backing to the story.

SNIP


> Please read this with an open mind. I am not railing on anyone,

OH, yes you are!

>this is just a general opinion.

Pfft

> Can we all provide as much information as possible when posting
>a story or thread or whatever? You can still remain anonymous.
>Thank you.

OMG. This is reeeffindickulous.

When you run the board, you can set the rules.

Thanks for allowing me to remain anonymous.

What the hell is this nutty business?

Jesus wept.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/19/2019 09:56PM by Beth.

I took the post about BedKnobs as hypothetical to become somewhat thoughtful IF the Morg / ChurchCo were to implode, regardless of which of the 13 were mentioned;

that said, Bednar 'holds a special place' with us because of his arrogance, so not a bad choice as mentioned 'a target', ha ha

The post was a good play on the way that ChurchCo deals in half-truths, specializes in PR sometimes at the expense of Facts.

I say, Bravo!

Creative writing. It's even taught at university.

>>Can we all provide as much information as possible when posting a story or thread or what ever?

We can't all be Steve Benson. That's just a fact.

You just won the internets!

Ok people, let's be honest about what OP brought up, Can I address the elephant in the room? "if you are going to post information, there should be more backing to the story."

Stillangry is absolutely right. Many many new threads bring up a controversial-politically-charged-current-news headline and then just leave it at that. Obviously scared of either getting deleted by the mods for not having the right views, or scared of offending some snowflake. Which certainly happens quite frequently by anyone willing to express free speech. To be a leader you can't be friends with everyone.

If someone posts a link without at least some introduction or explanation, I don't click on it.

macaRomney Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> To be a leader you can't be friends with
> everyone.

RfM doesn't need leaders. People here need friends.

Unfortunately, I only have a few minutes to respond. He's rude to people he has never met. He treats his wife less than dirt.

What type of clown would say in a public forum that his wife used to be pretty?

He's intimidating. He made a kid cry during a youth conference.

He belittles others and is a master of gaslighting. "There are no homosexuals in the church."

I've read his talks and listened to his hot-air balloon talks.

He is a jerk and deserves to criticized as the "Lord's chosen leader" of the fraud.

And if you have trouble with our sad song recoveries, then you can take a hike. You can leave RFM. A lot of us stay because the church (its beliefs, teachings, leaders) hurt our well being.

I tried hard to make mormonism work. I tried to live the gospel and patiently wait for the blessings to come. Well it didn't work for me and many others.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/20/2019 09:27AM by messygoop.

I've seen bednar in person. No words can describe that dudes arrogance. Would not shake the hand of one of my friends. Bednar just went into his vehicle and didn't shake the kids hand. That guy is not a true leader if he treats all his followers like dirt.

I lurk around a wide spectrum of Mormon forums online and reddit. Almost all of them suffer from the effects of an insular bubble. The two most insular, IMO, are this forum and /r/latterdaysaints. For whatever reason /r/exmormon is a lot more balanced and thoughtful than this forum. I suspect that's because this forum seems to be mostly populated with Boomers while /r/exmormon has younger generations who seem more intellectually agile.

Anyway, to be fair, this is not unique to Mormon online communities. This is the plague that is tearing our nation apart. We all love to be right, and to be with other people that affirm we are right. It feels fucking great to be right! But, in our desire to be right, we soften our minds by not challenging our ideas and arguments with the views and experiences of others.

I chose to stay in the Church. I think RfM is a useful community for people in the midst of a transition to let out their frustration and emotion. It's not really a place where any kind of deep, rigorous or substantively meaningful discussion takes place.

NOM Lurker Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I lurk around a wide spectrum of Mormon forums
> online and reddit. Almost all of them suffer from
> the effects of an insular bubble. The two most
> insular, IMO, are this forum and
> /r/latterdaysaints. For whatever reason
> /r/exmormon is a lot more balanced and thoughtful
> than this forum. I suspect that's because this
> forum seems to be mostly populated with Boomers
> while /r/exmormon has younger generations who seem
> more intellectually agile.

You must have been on holiday when there were several discussions about changes to missionary communication that was announced last year. A whole lot of ex-mos were pissed off over it. Not just one or two, but a dozen or more. They were angry that the church was making it too easy for them.

If that's the style of sophistication you expect, then stay over there.

> But, in our desire to be right, we soften our
> minds by not challenging our ideas and arguments
> with the views and experiences of others.
>
> I chose to stay in the Church.

I can see why the church fits your agenda.

Please go back and challenge your bishop and stake president.

I don't need a prick to challenge my beliefs that I got it all wrong with the church.

messygoop Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I don't need a prick to challenge my beliefs that
> I got it all wrong with the church.

Ok GenXer I think would be their response.

I echo your sentiments. I don't need young intelligence to school me on my recovery while they are still being active in the church.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/20/2019 11:40AM by Elder Berry.

messygoop Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> I don't need a prick to challenge my beliefs that
> I got it all wrong with the church.

It seems you are in agreement with my main point.

RFM is perfect. It’s the posters who aren’t perfect.

Haha well said babylon. Our perfection is sacred and not a secret.

I post a lot of links I guess I make "the problem". When I read things or watch a video I wonder what other people think about it. My husband is not very talkative nor is he really interested in anything Mormonism. We have resigned in 2013. when I watch a video about a mormon apologist who in my opinion makes more damage with his video I feel the need to share. Other people see things different and it helps me see a wider picture. Growing up in a Mormon bubble with mostly Mormon friends same age and so forth.

I stumbled on RFM at the same time that I was finding out the truth about TSCC, and so glad that I found this particular forum.

I have said before, that I have learned a lot from here and have really taken into serious consideration the comments and experiences from the posters here.

I have cried reading some posts and laughed out loud at the some of the best humor that I've read in a long time.

Research helped me and my family, but it's so comforting to know I'm not alone with experiences in the cult.

I may be a "Boomer", but believe me, since coming here, my mind has the agility of a trapeze artist.

We're bending all the way backwards in this joint hahaha.

I came back to this sight because i needed a little bit of support right now. Taking life seriously full time is pretty hard for me. Being born in that religion i just thought God was just playing a sick joke on the warrior. I thought if God is this ridiculous then why should i take life seriously even a little bit. I literally thought my friends and i were born in a sick and twisted joke. But the joke was actually a joke(a cult by definition which included chanting and secret handshakes). So it all started to make sense that maybe life was not a joke but just this operation was and we were born into it by accident.

A week ago you said goodbye
https://www.exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,2267783

Now you are back to say the problem is how everyone posts and not you. That if everyone would take direction from you YOUR life would be improved.

Sorry that is NOT how the world works. Either it is Goodbye or it is deal with the board as is.

I made my point and you all fell for it. Thank you for playing.

It must be annoying when you tell people to play hopscotch and they opt for marbles.

We play by our own rules.