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Posted by: Screen Name ( )
Date: December 31, 2019 08:14PM

Please answer this honestly.

If you learned that in heaven, all things were free of charge, never wore out, became better with age and that you could live right next door to God Almighty, would you do whatever it took to enjoy these things?

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Posted by: elderolddog ( )
Date: December 31, 2019 08:23PM

No. I’m not mad at ghawd but I’m definitely not a fan.

And I bare you my bosom, as well as my testimony, that I won’t be lonely!

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Posted by: saucie ( )
Date: January 10, 2020 10:55PM

elderolddog Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> No. I’m not mad at ghawd but I’m definitely
> not a fan.
>
> And I bare you my bosom, as well as my testimony,
> that I won’t be lonely!


He has a crystal ball, thats how he knows.

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Posted by: CrispingPin ( )
Date: December 31, 2019 08:33PM

It really doesn’t make any sense to ask a question to atheists that begins with “If you learned that in heaven.”

You’d have to show verifiable proof that heaven exists before you can start asking atheists about if things improve with age or the vicinity of god.

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Posted by: Beth ( )
Date: December 31, 2019 11:43PM


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Posted by: Lot's Wife ( )
Date: December 31, 2019 08:34PM

You had me till you said I'd have to live next door to God.

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Posted by: CateS ( )
Date: December 31, 2019 09:52PM

Good lord what does your question even mean?
It shows a profound misunderstanding of how atheists think. This atheist (and I suspect most) doesn’t care about getting something for nothing or achieving status by proximity to the leader.
Is this really how the religious think? It seems so empty.

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Posted by: dagny ( )
Date: January 01, 2020 09:14PM

Ditto CateS. That was my reaction to the question as well.

I'm not at all interested in being a god groupie in some kind of magical commune.

My version of heaven would involve unlimited knowledge and a way to cease existing on my own terms.

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Posted by: Done & Done ( )
Date: January 02, 2020 10:10AM

Another Ditto. Yes CateS.

I am all about accomplishment and have no interest in rewards for doing nothing but kiss ass.

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Posted by: mootman ( )
Date: December 31, 2019 10:25PM

What about the virgins? And dogs? Also will my sociopathic relatives live there?

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Posted by: babyloncansuckit ( )
Date: December 31, 2019 10:32PM

If I also learn that my main mode of transportation will be a magic unicorn that poops gold, I’m in.

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Posted by: ptbarnum ( )
Date: December 31, 2019 11:07PM

This is Pascal's Wager or something?

No, I wouldn't hypothetically do "whatever it took" to enjoy those things, considering that whatever it takes can include some pretty disturbing stuff.

Would I take my kid to the desert and try to sacrifice him to Yahweh? No. Nor would I sexually assault someone, burn someone alive, poison a baby, eat human flesh, commit ritual suicide, annihilate a village or buy/sell slaves.

There's a lot of stuff I wouldn't do even if it meant cool things and an elusive yet strangely demanding neighbor. I wouldn't even do a lot of "whatever it took" to save my own life, and remember, I'm not counting on anything coming after my heart stops.

Fortunately I dont believe in that stuff. It's a lot simpler.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/31/2019 11:07PM by ptbarnum.

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Posted by: got2Breal ( )
Date: December 31, 2019 11:11PM

I'm not an athiest so perhaps I should not answer, but the freeloading thing would get old. Most likely within months or years not centuries. Humans need chalenges to overcome and goals to achieve. That's why Higher Intelligence provides reincarnation instead.

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Posted by: Tevai ( )
Date: January 01, 2020 12:06AM

got2Breal Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I'm not an athiest so perhaps I should not answer,
> but the freeloading thing would get old. Most
> likely within months or years not centuries.
> Humans need chalenges to overcome and goals to
> achieve. That's why Higher Intelligence provides
> reincarnation instead.

Of the posts on this thread, this is closer to my personal beliefs.

I do believe in reincarnation (I was raised mostly Hindu/Vedanta/Advaita).

To my unexpected surprise, however, I have learned that, within the higher/deeper/more advanced levels of belief within Judaism, Jewish understanding of reincarnation extends beyond the species limits of homo sapiens sapiens: to "other animals," and also possibly to plants.

If this is so, and if reincarnation extends throughout the universe (which is probable; if reincarnation exists in one part of the universe then it very probably extends to all parts of the universe), then the continuing process of reincarnation would also, logically, extend to other-than-Earth lifeforms as well.

I don't know if this is so, and I have no real idea of the present limits of Jewish scholarly thinking on this subject (and what I have said here very probably does NOT enter into the thinking of most Jews), but these beliefs, AS Jewish beliefs, do exist as an intellectually important minority opinion within those scholars who are the most advanced Jewish thinkers.

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Posted by: got2Breal ( )
Date: January 01, 2020 09:50AM

Tevai Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> got2Breal Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I'm not an athiest so perhaps I should not
> answer,
> > but the freeloading thing would get old. Most
> > likely within months or years not centuries.
> > Humans need chalenges to overcome and goals to
> > achieve. That's why Higher Intelligence
> provides
> > reincarnation instead.
>
> Of the posts on this thread, this is closer to my
> personal beliefs.
>
> I do believe in reincarnation (I was raised mostly
> Hindu/Vedanta/Advaita).
>
> To my unexpected surprise, however, I have learned
> that, within the higher/deeper/more advanced
> levels of belief within Judaism, Jewish
> understanding of reincarnation extends beyond the
> species limits of homo sapiens sapiens: to "other
> animals," and also possibly to plants.
>
> If this is so, and if reincarnation extends
> throughout the universe (which is probable; if
> reincarnation exists in one part of the universe
> then it very probably extends to all parts of the
> universe), then the continuing process of
> reincarnation would also, logically, extend to
> other-than-Earth lifeforms as well.
>
> I don't know if this is so, and I have no real
> idea of the present limits of Jewish scholarly
> thinking on this subject (and what I have said
> here very probably does NOT enter into the
> thinking of most Jews), but these beliefs, AS
> Jewish beliefs, do exist as an intellectually
> important minority opinion within those scholars
> who are the most advanced Jewish thinkers.

I'm not Jewish and I don't know much about Jewish scriptures. My conclusions on reincarnation are based on modern evidence, particularly the research of Dr. Ian Stevenson, generally recognized as the world's foremost expert in the subject.

Also somewhat based on the testimony of near-death experience witnesses such as Sandra Rogers. Sandra was given a choice of whether to stay on the other side for a limited time then reincarnate, or go on with her current life. Staying permanently was not among her choices. Given that she was the victim of much more evil than she caused, I doubt any of us will be given that choice.

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Posted by: anybody ( )
Date: December 31, 2019 11:15PM

First, your question makes no sense.

It assumes that there is an afterlife. There isn't.

Second, why would I want to go to heaven in the first place? Do I have a choice? You say the "advantage" is a perfect place where nothing breaks and nothing goes wrong. You are saying is "eternity" is a never-ending perfect meta-human experience. Sounds boring.

Third, what is so great about being next to "god" and by that I'm guessing you mean the anthropomorphic "Sky Daddy" a/k/a Dyus Piter, Zeus, Iuppiter, etc., etc. What's the advantage? Why would I want that?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/31/2019 11:16PM by anybody.

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Posted by: Brother Of Jerry ( )
Date: December 31, 2019 11:38PM

You want an honest answer, ask an honest question.

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Posted by: Beth ( )
Date: December 31, 2019 11:45PM


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Posted by: Dave the Atheist ( )
Date: January 01, 2020 12:01AM

Your god is a dick !

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Posted by: csuprovograd ( )
Date: January 01, 2020 12:51AM

How old will I be in heaven? How old will my parents be? My kids, when they show up? Are we all the same age? Do we still have to respect our ‘elders’? Are we all the same age? What age? 16? 35? 47?

Asking for a friend...

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Posted by: Beth ( )
Date: January 01, 2020 01:05AM

My mother and Aunt Cherie spent some time mixing occult and Christian ideas when I was young. IOW, if my Natal Chart (horoscope) were correct, I'd be ruling the world right now. Guess that was a bunch of hokum. And when we go to heaven, we'd all be 32 years old or maybe 33 because that's how old Jesus was when he died. We also did some odd biblical numerology, and they smoked a TON of pot.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/01/2020 07:35PM by Beth.

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Posted by: Screen Name ( )
Date: January 01, 2020 02:33PM

csuprovograd Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> How old will I be in heaven?

You will be 17 years of age.

How old will my
> parents be?

Your parents will be 17 years old, too.

My kids, when they show up?

When your children arrive, they will turn 17 years old.

Are we
> all the same age?

Yes. Everybody will be 17, eternally.

Do we still have to respect our
> ‘elders’?

There will be no elders. Only equals.

Are we all the same age?

Yes. All will be 1o7.

What age?

AGE 17.

> 16? NO. 17.

35? NO. 17.

47? NO. 17.
>
> Asking for a friend...

Tell your friend.

God is 17 years old. Perpetually.

This explains his perfection, punctuated with wild swings of opinion, emotions and alterations in the unchangeable.

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Posted by: csuprovograd ( )
Date: January 01, 2020 02:55PM

Jeez.

Not old enough to vote, even? Who decided on 17? Why not 21? Or, 25?



If we are all the same age, do you still call your Mom ‘Mom’, grandad ‘gramps’? Doesn’t seem like it makes sense to me.

So, my g-g-g-g parents will be the same age as me, also.

Plus, they are all too young to marry, well, except in some parts of Idaho...

So, we’ll all be single and horny with well developed right hand dexterity, I guess.

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Posted by: CL2 ( )
Date: January 01, 2020 10:10AM

Could someone tell me how to spell apatheist? Okay, found it. And the definition: An apatheist is someone who is not interested in accepting or rejecting any claims that gods exist or do not exist. The existence of god(s) is not rejected, but may be designated irrelevant. That would be me.

I don't want to live by God if there is one, which I'm not sure of as it states. I want to be with my parents. They weren't perfect, but they were good people. They weren't typical mormons by far. Otherwise, most of their children and grandchildren wouldn't be OUT of the church. (I hate that stupid snowplow that keeps going by because they go so fast on my quiet street.)

I want my dogs to be with me, but do I want my dogs to not be able to communicate in whatever language there is then. If my dogs aren't going to be there, just end it now. Okay?

What I would want in a "perfect" world is for all the pain, hunger, abuse, homelessness, the list goes on and on to END. For there to be PEACE. I don't need riches or a God living next door. There needs to be more love and caring than I see in the world. I hate death and dying, too.

I don't want reincarnation. Not in the least. My ex's old boyfriend used to believe in reincarnation and he talked about it as there are things we need to fix with those close to us like whatever my ex and I had to deal with at the time they were together, but we've dealt with that. I want my kids to always be my kids and not living somewhere else that I don't even know where they are. I don't like so many things about this world, I have a hard time believing in a God. I could have done a much better job just looking around my little area of the world.

I don't think we should have to jump through any hoops. What is wrong with just being a good person? No going to do baptisms at 6:45 a.m. on New Year's Eve like my daughter's in-laws did yesterday. I won't have to put in my ex's name at the temple so that it will stop snowing until he retires in 3 years. I had to add a little humor there. He is grounds supervisor and snow removal is such a "burden" to him. Ladies in heels complaining because there is a spot of ice--a spot--in the parking lot. Not like we don't live in Cache Valley.

Anyway, just got out of bed and I'm drugged as I'm sick, so just consider that when reading my post.

I used to worry endlessly about doing everything right so God would welcome me into his kingdom so I could be with my family forever (not be a goddess) and now I don't worry at all. If there is an afterlife, I think I'll be with my parents and my dogs and my grandparents and friends who have passed away.

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Posted by: elderolddog ( )
Date: January 01, 2020 03:34PM

I think there are as many Laztheists as Apatheists...

But I'm not motivated enough to look it up.

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Posted by: CL2 ( )
Date: January 01, 2020 08:20PM


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Posted by: alsd ( )
Date: January 03, 2020 04:18PM

cl2 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Could someone tell me how to spell apatheist?
> Okay, found it. And the definition: An apatheist
> is someone who is not interested in accepting or
> rejecting any claims that gods exist or do not
> exist. The existence of god(s) is not rejected,
> but may be designated irrelevant. That would be
> me.
>
> I don't want to live by God if there is one, which
> I'm not sure of as it states. I want to be with
> my parents. They weren't perfect, but they were
> good people. They weren't typical mormons by far.
> Otherwise, most of their children and
> grandchildren wouldn't be OUT of the church. (I
> hate that stupid snowplow that keeps going by
> because they go so fast on my quiet street.)
>
> I want my dogs to be with me, but do I want my
> dogs to not be able to communicate in whatever
> language there is then. If my dogs aren't going
> to be there, just end it now. Okay?
>
> What I would want in a "perfect" world is for all
> the pain, hunger, abuse, homelessness, the list
> goes on and on to END. For there to be PEACE. I
> don't need riches or a God living next door.
> There needs to be more love and caring than I see
> in the world. I hate death and dying, too.
>
> I don't want reincarnation. Not in the least. My
> ex's old boyfriend used to believe in
> reincarnation and he talked about it as there are
> things we need to fix with those close to us like
> whatever my ex and I had to deal with at the time
> they were together, but we've dealt with that. I
> want my kids to always be my kids and not living
> somewhere else that I don't even know where they
> are. I don't like so many things about this
> world, I have a hard time believing in a God. I
> could have done a much better job just looking
> around my little area of the world.
>
> I don't think we should have to jump through any
> hoops. What is wrong with just being a good
> person? No going to do baptisms at 6:45 a.m. on
> New Year's Eve like my daughter's in-laws did
> yesterday. I won't have to put in my ex's name at
> the temple so that it will stop snowing until he
> retires in 3 years. I had to add a little humor
> there. He is grounds supervisor and snow removal
> is such a "burden" to him. Ladies in heels
> complaining because there is a spot of ice--a
> spot--in the parking lot. Not like we don't live
> in Cache Valley.
>
> Anyway, just got out of bed and I'm drugged as I'm
> sick, so just consider that when reading my post.
>
> I used to worry endlessly about doing everything
> right so God would welcome me into his kingdom so
> I could be with my family forever (not be a
> goddess) and now I don't worry at all. If there
> is an afterlife, I think I'll be with my parents
> and my dogs and my grandparents and friends who
> have passed away.

I would consider myself an apatheist because God, or whatever there is out there, has never bothered to reveal itself to me, despite years of prayer and trying. Because God did not care enough to reveal itself to me, I see no reason to care about it as well as no reason to believe in it.

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Posted by: Razortooth ( )
Date: January 01, 2020 03:03PM

Considering all the character flaws exhibited by the god of the Old Testament, why would I want him for a next door neighbor?

As for for having a perfect afterlife, nothing beats nonexistence.

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Posted by: elderolddog ( )
Date: January 01, 2020 05:58PM

Nonexistence worked fine for us before we were born! I've heard no complaints...

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Posted by: olderelder ( )
Date: January 01, 2020 05:57PM

I'm supposed to build my life around a promise of free stuff? That seems rather shallow.

And what if there's the catch that everything is free but there's nothing I want?

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Posted by: Dave the Atheist ( )
Date: January 01, 2020 07:33PM


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Posted by: Beth ( )
Date: January 01, 2020 09:04PM


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Posted by: donbagley ( )
Date: January 02, 2020 01:58PM

No, because I already learned that, and my answer was what brought me here.

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Posted by: Finally Free! ( )
Date: January 02, 2020 02:54PM

There are a lot of problems with your question. One, you assume that the heaven you describe is desirable, as others have pointed out, it isn't. An eternity of having everything perfectly supplied would get old quick. Sitting around with nothing to do for eternity sounds incredibly boring.

And who wants God as their neighbor? I mean really think about what that would mean. This is the guy who created imperfect beings, then got mad at them for being imperfect and killed 99% of them in a horrific flood (assuming you're talking about the god of the Bible). The guy who's plan to redeem his imperfect creations involves killing his own, perfect, sinless, son also in a horrific manner. He can't even be bothered to provide a proper, clearly worded instruction manual, but happily condemns people when they don't guess right. If he were to come over and borrow a cup of sugar, I'd be worried he'd flay me if I didn't choose the right cup.

Next, you don't define what "whatever it took" means. Each religion has it's own idea of what it takes to reach their version of heaven, including killing every non-believer of their faith they meet. So, your question isn't clear.

It's also non-sense. You're asking people who don't believe in a concept what they would do if said concept, as you define it actually existed, with no proof. You might as well ask, if Santa actually provided the perfect gift at Christmas, would you be extra good to avoid getting coal?

It feels like a trap question. You offer a vague, leading question, expecting us to answer a certain way. To what end? If heaven actually existed and there was verifiable proof that it existed, how do you think most people would react? Would their be atheists at all in that scenario?

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Posted by: oxymormon ( )
Date: January 03, 2020 10:12PM

What if you get to heaven, and gawd says: “Sorry...the Jews were RIGHT!”?
How will it feel to know that your devotion to Jeebus was for nothing?!

I don’t care if the scenario in the OP is true...I’d still rather go to hell, thanks.

ETA: this is my honest answer.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/03/2020 10:18PM by oxymormon.

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Posted by: Anziano Young ( )
Date: January 05, 2020 09:51PM

A man died and found himself at the Pearly Gates. "Congratulations," St. Peter told him, "you've made it into heaven! Let me give you the tour."

The man followed St. Peter into an endless corridor lined with windowless doors. St. Peter opened one. "Have a look inside."

The man looked in and saw a swanky cocktail party, full of people drinking, talking, and laughing with each other. "Who are all these people?" he asked. "These are the Episcopalians," St. Peter replied.

At the next door, the man saw an infinite dance party with crowds of people dancing and laughing inside. "Who are they?" "These are the Pentecostals."

At the third door, the man peered in and saw a white room with row upon row of eternal, hard-backed pews. Here and there, small groups of people were scattered, all sitting quietly with their arms folded. "Who are they?" he asked again.

"Shh! They're Mormon. They think they're the only ones here."

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Posted by: Beth ( )
Date: January 10, 2020 10:39PM


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Posted by: caffiend ( )
Date: January 11, 2020 08:14PM

And all sorts of religious groups have been identified as "they think they're the only ones here."

Sophisticated theologians know that only Unitarians go to Heaven.

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Posted by: Theodore ( )
Date: January 05, 2020 11:40AM

Translated to White Theist English:

If you learned that in Wakanda, all things were free of charge, never wore out, became better with age and that you could live right next door to the Black Panther, would you do whatever it took to enjoy these things?

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Posted by: elderolddog ( )
Date: January 05, 2020 12:15PM

Wakanda question is this?

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Posted by: Wally Prince ( )
Date: January 06, 2020 01:27AM

Screen Name Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Please answer this honestly.
>
> If you learned that in heaven, all things were
> free of charge, never wore out, became better with
> age and that you could live right next door to God
> Almighty, would you do whatever it took to enjoy these things?"

Every clause of this question is problematical.

>> "If you learned that in heaven...."

Atheism isn't a rejection and hatred of heaven and "God Almighty" in circumstances where heaven and God are known to exist. It's simply a refusal to pretend to believe in things that have never been proven to exist in circumstances where unproven claims about such things are all over the place and contradict each other. Once the initial premise of this hypothesis is accepted, the whole reason for the question ceases to be relevant. If an atheist "learns" that heaven and God Almighty exist, they are no longer an atheist.


>> "all things were free of charge, never wore out, became better with age and that you could live right next door to God Almighty"

Well, that's the essence of most religious views of heaven. No specifics, but just the promise that everything is wonderful all the time. The promise also assumes that living right next door to God Almighty is a wonderful thing, but nobody who actually has lived right next door to God Almighty has ever appeared to tell us what that entails exactly. It's just wonderful because some people who never experienced it have claimed that it's wonderful. Supposedly there were wars in heaven when all spirits were living in God's presence and some angels were cast down and punished by God for rebelliousness. Doesn't really sound like it's all lollipops, gumdrops, taffy rainbows and unicorns...even according to the Bible.


>> "would you do whatever it took to enjoy these things?"

This is perhaps the worst clause of the question. What does "whatever it took" mean? How many people would you need to kill on God's orders? Read the Old Testament and all the slaughters that were supposedly ordered by God Almighty. The "whatever it took" concept is open-ended. Sell your soul? At what point does it become impossible to distinguish between the bargains made with the devil vs. the bargains made with "God Almighty"?

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Posted by: Done & Done ( )
Date: January 06, 2020 10:16AM

How many people do you have to kill on God's orders? in order to enjoy these things.

That's the question isn't it! What do you have to do to fulfill your own selfish desires?

Will you shun your own family?

Will you attempt to take away the rights of others?

Will you make the gay youth feel the need to kill themselves? To be desolate and afraid?

Will you treat women like seconds? Veils over faces and subservience praised?




This entire question is about "Survival of the Greediest."

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Posted by: Anziano Young ( )
Date: January 06, 2020 11:00AM

that his big problem with religion in general, and Christianity in particular, is its requirement of selfishness. Sure, they talk a lot about being nice to other people, helping the poor, spreading the faith, etc. But when it comes down to it, a Christian is a Christian because *they* want to get to heaven. That's the end game.

For Mormons, their Plan of Salvation seems on the surface to be focused on families, but ultimately it's a man and his wife (and wife and wife and wife) who go through the temple, get the right passwords, are sealed, and then can get into the Celestial Kingdom. There's no selflessness required. If your children are lost, they're lost. Lazarus and the rich man.

I was on my way out of Mormonism at the time, and I had never thought of this before he made this remark.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/06/2020 11:01AM by Anziano Young.

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Posted by: Screen Name ( )
Date: January 10, 2020 05:18PM

Thank you for the collective kick in the butt. Seriously.

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Posted by: Phil in Roy ( )
Date: January 06, 2020 10:32AM

And what do I have to do? Grovel? Besides, "right next door" would be rather crowded. Head of a pin?

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Posted by: Mother Who Knows ( )
Date: January 10, 2020 05:54PM

Am I too simple to consider the answer to your question a no-brainer?

I would go on living my life, as I am now.

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Posted by: GregS ( )
Date: January 10, 2020 06:48PM

Yeah, that's my issue, too. God or no God, it's not going to change how I conduct myself or life my life on a daily basis.

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Posted by: Lot's Wife ( )
Date: January 10, 2020 06:52PM

> God or no God, it's
> not going to change how I conduct myself or life
> my life on a daily basis.

This has to be right. Moral behavior is moral behavior. If acts matter, God shouldn't care about belief.

If all that maters is belief, the implication is that non-believers are actually more moral than believers because they aren't susceptible to manipulation by religious leaders.

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Posted by: elderolddog ( )
Date: January 10, 2020 07:47PM

I probably wouldn't because I'm kinda dumb that way, but a lot of people out there put up with serious shit for serious money...

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Posted by: Phazer ( )
Date: January 10, 2020 08:28PM

I don't feel there is a reason to worship anybody. There hasn't been a good reason to do so or think the God way is any better than what I'm doing now.

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Posted by: Screen Name ( )
Date: January 11, 2020 07:56PM

I worship Neil Peart, Herb Alpert, Eric Clapton, Dudumel and prolly three thousand others.

Worship is due to anyone who can out-perform God.

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Posted by: saucie ( )
Date: January 10, 2020 10:58PM

Nothing about this scenario is something I'd like to be a part

of. Not only do I not believe in a Ghawd but I think the mere

concept of a ghawd is primitive .

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Posted by: Tevai ( )
Date: January 10, 2020 11:13PM

The question postulates that "heaven" exists--which I don't believe, for at least a couple of reasons.

1) "Heaven," as a concept, would entail the lifeforce, or "energy," [I don't know a better word to use] of a/all specific lifeform(s) to be sequestered away, after death, from the rest of the lifeforce, or "energy," of the universe....so every death would result in a reduction in total [energy or whatever]. This would be akin to digging up some valuable commodity (diamonds or emeralds, rare earths, petroleum, etc.), and then re-burying that commodity in a less accessible place than it was in when you found it. [I do realize that every new birth would simultaneously increase energy in the universe, but you need to ask: where was that energy before that entity was born? It had to come from somewhere--so where would that "somewhere" BE?]

2) "Heaven" does not accord with my own memories of what occurred in the interim between my immediate LAST life and THIS life. What I experienced (and what I remember, quite vividly--all things considered) is that I was in some unknown to me, but VERY comfortable, and favorable in every way, "place"--just floating around, feeling safe and warm and cared for....and that experience was also "interesting," too--though I can't explain why. It was a very, VERY nice darkness, which I found quite interesting (mostly, to me, it was NOT cold--and this meant a great deal to me at that particular time)--and then, at some point, I "opened my eyes" and I was in a crib (which I initially misinterpreted as a cage of some kind), in a room I did not recognize, in a place unknown to me, and there was this obviously very nice, but strange to me, woman who came in the room and began chatting with me--though I didn't understand what she was saying (I assumed it was really awful Dutch, because I could understand the meaning even if I didn't quite understand the words--but it was actually American English). And thus began my present life, from the viewpoint of my own consciousness of this life.

I think that all "animal" life (which includes us, and probably all of our cells, etc. as well) has some kind of "consciousness" which carries over....past death--from life, to life.

To me, the concept of "heaven" is unbelievable, and I have always felt this way (since early childhood, when the WORD "heaven" became part of my vocabulary). When the word was explained to me, and as I grew in understanding, the concept became more and more unbelievable to me.

Today, and to me, especially as an adult, the concept of heaven is roughly on the same level of believability as is Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny.

I do think there is purpose in life, and that however that purpose/energy/lifeforce may be expressed in any particular person/entity's experience, it certainly does not end with death.

And "heaven," as I understand the concept, would be nothing more than an endless, ostensibly eternal, warehousing of whatever ["energy," etc.] it is that--here on Earth--makes the difference between a live body and a body which is deceased.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/10/2020 11:24PM by Tevai.

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Posted by: imaworkinonit ( )
Date: January 11, 2020 12:12AM

Screen Name Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Please answer this honestly.

This plea is interesting. Why do you care what I honestly think? Are you looking for ideas? Guidance? Because I don't know what happens after death. I think this whole concept of heaven is something you actually need to ask of yourself.

>
> If you learned that in heaven, all things were
> free of charge, never wore out, became better with
> age and that you could live right next door to God
> Almighty, would you do whatever it took to enjoy
> these things?



Your description of heaven is mostly about free stuff and things. That's not what makes life (or afterlife) worthwhile. Frankly, it sounds boring. What do people do when they have nothing to work for, nothing to make or fix?

And if God's the guy in the old testament, NO, I don't want to be his neighbor. He's more likely to kill me or send a swarm of locusts than he is to invite me over for a cup of coffee.

And just for the record, I think religion needs to come up with a better afterlife. Streets paved with gold, playing the harp and wearing white, or even being the Goddess of my own planet? Also not my ideas of a great time. I've raised a family already and I don't want to raise a couple billion more kids.

So, no, I would not do whatever it took to have those things. I also question if it's really morality if you are just complying to get a reward or just to avoid being tortured for all eternity.

Recommended viewing: "The Good Place" (netflix, I think)


At core, the whole idea of this life being a test by an invisible being, that will result in eternal bliss (boring) or eternal damnation and torture (immoral and wrong) is bogus. Just live your best life and someday it will probably be all over. Leave the world better than you found it.

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Posted by: donbagley ( )
Date: January 11, 2020 12:30AM

All right, I'll bite.

Rod Serling debunked this myth by playing it out in one of his episodes. A man goes to the afterlife where he always wins when he gambles. He's a hit with the ladies and he lives in a hotel suite of quality. The lack of contrast reduces everything that's good to nothing special at all. In fact, it becomes boring and repetitive. The man has nothing going against him at all. Never. What kind of heaven is this? he wants to know.

Who said it was heaven? he's asked in response.

The point is that what you're describing is a sterile place. Nothing wears out, and there's no price to pay for anything. Therefore, nothing has value. Plus, you have to live next to a god? That would suck, the way they carry on.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/11/2020 12:32AM by donbagley.

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Posted by: Beth ( )
Date: January 11, 2020 12:41AM


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Posted by: schrodingerscat ( )
Date: January 11, 2020 05:23PM

I prefer this world to any "other world"
http://fnietzsche.com/uebermensch-this-worldliness
Longing for an other world robs you of appreciating this world, which is a paradise, compared to the known alternatives.

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