As I've mentioned before, my sister is part of a community inter-faith group that includes Mormons. She tells me about interactions that would make you laugh and make you wince. She mentioned the other day that she had asked whether a Mormon ward building could be used as an overnight "cold weather shelter" for people who are homeless. There would be professional trained, monitored staff provided who would supervise overnight, provide food, meet medical and security needs, tidy up in the morning and ensure the building was then vacated. The whole system is overseen by government agencies.

The answer was no, due to "nobody being allowed to stay in an LDS building overnight".

I had never heard this before. I assume it's a safety, security and/or insurance issue. Fair enough. But the optics aren't good. Temperatures are below zero. We've had snow and endless pelting rain. Shelter beds are in short supply. Meanwhile, big useful spaces remain empty that could be used to provide warm, dry, friendly environments for people who are in great need.

The LDS phrase "large and spacious building" came unbidden into my head. Never having become all that familiar with the BoM and Mormon teachings, I didn't know what it was. Assumed maybe something to do with temples, tabernacles, or other Mormon holy places.

I was thinking that "large and spacious building" is a perfect description of the stake centre where my ward met. Big overspill area at the back of the chapel. Plenty of room for basketball to keep the mishies happy. Fully-equipped kitchen. Several large washrooms. Empty most days and always overnight.

I just looked it up. Turns out it's a metaphor.

LDS explanation of the “large and spacious building”:

https://bookofmormonstudynotes.blog/2019/11/21/what-did-the-great-and-spacious-building-represent/


Excerpts:

“After seeing the crucifixion of the Savior, Nephi saw many people fighting against the twelve apostles whom Jesus had chosen. He saw those people gathered in a “large and spacious building, like unto the building which my father saw.” An angel explained to him that this building represented “the world and the wisdom thereof.” Then, the angel said that the people in that building would “fight against the twelve apostles of the Lamb” (1 Nephi 11:35).

“Nephi explained that this building represented “the pride of the world.” He also saw its ultimate fate: “It fell, and the fall thereof was exceedingly great.” Since it had no foundation and floated in the air, its fall is not hard to visualize. Since it was a large building, it’s not hard to believe that the fall was massive.

“Lest the connection to the apostles be lost, the angel made the following observation after the building fell: “Thus shall be the destruction of all nations, kindreds, tongues, and people that shall fight against the twelve apostles of the Lamb” (1 Nephi 11:36).

“Shortly afterward, in the same vision, Nephi saw his own descendants fighting against the descendants of his brothers. The angel again referred to the building, reminding Nephi that
“the large and spacious building, which thy father saw, is vain imaginations and the pride of the children of men.” Nephi saw that his descendants would be overpowered and destroyed because of their pride (1 Nephi 12:18-19).”

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Gordon B. Hinckley had his "little flecks of history" (Blacks banned from holding the priesthood). Russell M. Nelson has his large and spacious buildings. They could embody Christian principles such as compassion as well as reverence for Jesus, who purportedly used his divine power to feed the hungry and heal the sick and afflicted, which is apt in these circumstances.

Imagine how it could be. LDS buildings that are alive, hubs, beehives, community assets. Places known for good.

Instead, they're just a metaphor.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/25/2020 07:02PM by Nightingale.

Thus my surprise in the other thread that a ward building was supposedly used as a temporary shelter, after the neighborhood explosion...

The explosion was in the early morning. The story suggests that people used the ward building that same morning.

If so, who opened it, which keyholder went down and unlocked the doors? Who authorized him to do so? If it was one of the building's bishops, well then, well played Sir Bishop! Maybe he'll get a bit of a talking to from his immediate supervisor, his SP, and maybe he won't...

If it wasn't the bishop and that person took it upon himself or <gasp!> herself to unlock the doors, heads will roll!!!


And then there is mention of the other religious organization that opened up their building the next evening... No way the mormon building was open overnight.

That's why your thread caught my eye, appearing just when I was going to post about the reason for refusing to provide a community shelter being that nobody's allowed in LDS buildings overnight. That's why I was triple-checking to see if it had been an overnight situation in the midst of the explosion disaster you mentioned.

It's ringing a faint bell in my head that "insurance" is the main reason given for a lot of things that aren't allowed - such as big, empty kitchens in ward buildings because there's no cooking allowed (am I remembering that correctly?)

I can see that - but maybe the insurance could be changed? Maybe it could be part of the price paid to do some community outreach. Other churches do it.

The church is self-insured. Publicly used kitchens might have strict health department codes that TSCC would rather not have to deal with.

There’s no reason that the Church can’t allow overnight use. They might want to keep gentiles out of the chapel, but some minimal planning can control that.

Here's a thought: The early morning Seminary teacher got to the chapel and unlocked the doors and the displaced neighbors just assumed that a church would welcome those needing succor.

I can just him or her trying to get people to leave and then having it hit him that he was making a mockery of the role Christians are supposed to play, what with the kids, as well as the neighbors, wondering, "what the hell kinda Christianity do these here mormons practice?"

What babyloncansuckit said.

There was a major forest fire near Rockport Reservoir east of Park City a few years ago, forcing some significant multiday exacuations. The local stake center was volunteered as an emergency shelter for a few days.

This is very unusual for them. I can think of a couple of reasons why they allowed the building to be used as an emergency shelter.
1) there was literally nothing else available within 15 miles in either direction.
2) many, perhaps a majority of the displaced people were members of that stake.

Call me cynical, but I think the second reason was the more important.

fires last summer, but it isn't a regular thing.

I do remember we actually had a mutual sleep over at the church (it wasn't a stake center, an old building).

Things have become more strict, maybe because of the laws.

The big and spacious building, the biggest one, is the conference center. What about the temples?

Do you think they care about the homeless? The mormon leadership doesn't have much empathy. They only care about themselves.

cl2 Wrote:
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> Do you think they care about the homeless?

No. Unfortunately. Seems not.


>The mormon leadership doesn't have much empathy.

Sad, isn't it.

All the buildings. All the money. All the missed opportunities. All the futile busy-work.

It’s a business, not a religion. They just use religion as a tax shelter. How many businesses open up their facilities for use as a temporary shelter?

I think the message about the great and spacious building came from your future self. Your psychic connection with yourself across time would be strong, like a mother to her child. Or the church’s “rescind Holy Ghost” software has a bug.

What??? No more stake Beehive slumber parties? Back in the 60’s that was the highlight of our year. One year we even watched zombie movies. Those were the days. When we could have activities just for fun and fellowship. No faith-promoting ulterior motive required.