Decades past "one drop of negro blood" would keep you from Priesthood and all the marvelous blessings it could bring.

How about Neanderthal DNA? Would that keep you from anything?
Tests now show it - unless you use Ancestry - they hide the truth.

How come Joe and the gang never mentioned Neanderthals? Or Denisovians? Maybe too difficult to spell, or pronounce?

[At the very least], "one drop of [black] blood" is a Homo Sapiens Sapiens characteristic we all--universally--share.

By this standard, no human being qualifies for the priesthood.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/03/2020 08:07PM by Tevai.

I would say that Joe and friends never mentioned Neanderthals because the Neanderthals theory is a pile of crap. To believe the idea that some half monkey creature had sex with human and created some new human variation takes a great deal of blind faith. I mean all we have to do to substantiate the hypothesis is find evidence of humans and gorillas mating with a successful pregnancy and then we'd know it was true!

Is there any evidence? evidence is what science is all about.

Tell us again how humans came from monkeys.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BL9S-TUikfg



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/03/2020 09:10PM by Dave the Atheist.

Would you believe that wolves and dogs can procreate? Or is that a fairly tale too?

Lot's Wife Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Would you believe that wolves and dogs can
> procreate? Or is that a fairly tale too?


Or fairly fairy? :P

You are a bad girl, Nightingale. A very bad girl!

Good girls go to heaven. Bad girls go everywhere.

Talk to my wife

I love to make their heads explode by telling them that all humans came from Africa.

Apparently the word on the street back then, the street that ran right by the slave market, was that ghawd so loved his good & faithful White children that he kept them free from the mark of Cain! And they gloried in their privilege.

And mormon ghawd explained to his oldie time prophets that if'n you was born with the mark of Cain uponst your hide, then you wasn't fit to enter no temple, no how, no way!

And then Braggin' Young said, after first spittin' in a spittoon, that even if you had just one drop of bad-mark blood coursing through your body, well then nope, no temple for you, kid. And if a White person should 'mingle' his/her seed with a Negro, well then both their lives were forfeit! Goldang it!!


But if dark skin was the mark (which it really wasn't cuz the Polynesians and the East Indians were exempted), then why wasn't light skin enough to have the blessings of the priesthood and the temple? If you had lovely White skin, why wasn't that enough? How come the Brazilian missionaries were taught to look for photos of the parents of their prospective converts to make sure there was no Negro ancestry? So it wasn't your personal skin color...because if they knew you had a Black parent or grandparent, no priesthood for you!

It was all about the genetics, as they understood it back then. It wasn't the skin tone, it was the LIPS! Okay, not really, no, it was all about Africa and Sub-Saharan Africans. There existed a very strong prejudice against the Negro and it was such that on just that fact those who were easily identified as having come from Africa were denied the temple.

And the excuse was that having lacked valor during some crucial events in the pre-existence, a penalty was put into play. Their lack of valor meant that they couldn't have the priesthood, or its blessings here on Earth. And so a brand new religious doctrine arose which the following excerpts ennoble:

  "The attitude of the Church with reference to Negroes remains as it has always stood. It is not a matter of the declaration of a policy but of direct commandment from the Lord…"
  1949 1st presidency statement.

  “The seeming discrimination by the Church toward the Negro is not something which originated with man; but goes back into the beginning with God….Revelation assures us that this plan antedates man’s mortal existence, extending back to man’s pre-existent state.”
  David O. McKay

Gross, huh?

And then on June 05, 1978, ghawd told Spence, '...From this moment on, the Negro can have the priesthood!' This logically meant that every African Black alive at that moment was not burdened with the curse, that he/she/they HAD been valiant! It also meant that the last sufferer of that curse had come to earth, obtained a shoddy body, lived unfit to go to the temple, and died. (How many infants died in Black Africa between June 01 and June 05? Obviously ghawd made sure they were sufferers of the curse because that's how he rolls.)


I get what the current church is trying to do: escape the consequences of the very simple logic that the old-timey prophets were fuckin' bigots who couldn't possibly have been communing with ghawd when they came up with the doctrine that allowed them to blame their fuckin' bigotry on White ghawd Jehovah, meaning, of course, they were not communing with ghawd. They fuckin' made it up, cuz they were fuckin' bigots!!

So now that a very healthy slice of the world's population advocates full rights for all humanity, rather than admit what fuckin' bigots the early prophets were, the church is trying to deny it ever happened.

And so we hear this:

"Oh, there might have been a touch of that there prejudice that was all the rage at the time, but certainly ghawd would never have advocated such prejudice and most definitely them there teachings that ghawd was keepin' score in the preexistence, well that's just crazy talk!! Haha! That's so funny! Where does something like that even get started? I'm sure I don't know!! Okay, let's just move along now..."

The mormons have never had a conduit to ghawd; they've made all kinda shit up and their inability to get it right today is simply additional evidence that they continue to make it up. It's fun being around for the mormon finale.

Why the hell am I telling you guys?!  Oh, well, it felt good!

You said bad words.

I know.

I did post a warning, so you weren't caught by surprise; you had your smelling salts handy, I'm sure. Plucky is thy middle name!

I ripped my pearls clean off, thank you very much!

  

I see it and I feel like throwing up. <-- NOT an exaggeration.

How does one say black in spanish ?

What you meant to ask is "How is black pronounced in Spanish?"

How is it spelled ?

Dave, I don't know Spanish. I do know what it's like to be called every negative word associated with being of African ancestry.

Dave, if you're about to say that every person who called my father a "negro" was a native Spanish speaker, man. SMDH

When did negro become a bad word ?

I have black grandchildren. Am I supposed to love them less because their skin color is not the same as mine ?

It's a question of sensitivities. The word "negro" is closely associated with certain periods and practices in the US, and there are very few African-Americans who feel comfortable with it.

How about Charlize Theron. She is "African American" and not black/negro/whatever?

She can call herself whatever she wants, as may you. The question is whether I respect her enough to honor her preferences.

I believe you and I apologize. I dithered about repeating it, but it's the word the old timey mormons loved to carry on about.

I hear you

Joseph had the education of a middle school plagiarizer. His material was already written for him.

Warrior, I would love to have some references to show JS already had material written for him.

I am actually struggling with the authenticity of the BofM right now and would like to find references that show he could have plagiarized the BofM.

The CES Letter & Letter to My Wife discuss these issues. They're not "anti-mormon"; the church simply smears them with that label to scare believers away from reading them.

Also, look here for a bunch of parallels between the BOM and contemporaneous books like "The Late War" and "The First Book of Napoleon":

http://www.mormonthink.com/josephweb.htm

If your patriarchal blessing said that you are from the tribe of Ephraim or Manasseh, you have that one drop of cursed blood.

The Bible says (Gen 42) that Ephraim's parents were Joseph and Asenath, the daughter of the high priest of On. Since Egyptians were cursed with the non-priesthood (BoA), and that curse descended to all their offspring ("one drop") anyone who is a descendant of either Ephraim or Manasseh is ineligible for the priesthood.

Not too many Mormon make that connection to Gen 42.

One drop rule ...


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One-drop_rule

Dude. C'mon.

And the race of the child follows the race of the mother because we can't have those light bright children of slave masters passing for white, right? No. They became house slaves sleeping in the hall outside massah's bedroom door. And then *they* get raped because of proximity if nothing else.

Lots of women died in childbirth, so why put your wife in danger when you can rape a slave?

Puhhhleaze do not try to school me about being black.

I'm just letting people know where the one drop rule came from. It is evil history but it is still history.

"Puhhhleaze do not try to school me about being black."

C'mon Beth. Perhaps you could learn from that great Nevada mormon, Cliven Bundy. The guy that started the standoff with the BLM 5 years ago. Started a CNN interview with this gem;

"I want to tell you one more thing I know about the Negro,”

Maybe you could give him a call. Gain some insight from a 70+ year old mormon white guy. He might be able to give you a unique perspective. Be open minded......

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2014/04/cliven-bundy-wants-to-tell-you-all-about-the-negro/361152/



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/03/2020 11:34PM by stillanon.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Was that the guy that came to Oregon and trashed the wildlife preserve?

That was his upstanding mormon son, Ammon Bundy. Whom was also present at the Nevada standoff. That's where another upstanding Utah mormon, LaVoy Finicum, got shot and killed when he ran from and then pulled a gun on the FBI.

There's a Frontline (ProPublica?) documentary about both, I think.

What I remember most is a ton of people flooding the town, and the residents were like, "Um...so. We're all for the 2nd Amendment, and we get the grazing thing. But we'd feel a whole lot better if some of y'all would, like, leave. And take that howitzer with you."

But they did leave--then went to the Kentucky state house last week.

My favorite part was, when those "patriots" put out a call for supplies from their fan base. People from all over sent them dicks. It got so bad, they sent out a plea to stop sending them dildos. The founder of the game "Cards Against Humanity" sent them a 55 gallon drum of lube. America!


https://mashable.com/2016/01/13/oregon-militia-dildos/

*poof*



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/05/2020 10:33PM by Lot's Wife.

Re the doctrine in question (from NY Times article):

“It was Smith’s successor, Brigham Young, who adopted the policies that now haunt the church. He described black people as cursed with dark skin as punishment for Cain’s murder of his brother. “Any man having one drop of the seed of Cane in him cannot hold the priesthood,” he declared in 1852. Young deemed black-white intermarriage so sinful that he suggested that a man could atone for it only by having “his head cut off” and spilling “his blood upon the ground.” Other Mormon leaders convinced themselves that the pre-existent spirits of black people had sinned in heaven by supporting Lucifer in his rebellion against God.

“The priesthood ban had sweeping ecclesiastical consequences for black Mormons. They could not participate in the sacred ordinances, like the endowment ceremony (which prepares one for the afterlife) and sealings (which formally bind a family together), rites that Smith and Young taught were necessary to obtain celestial glory.

“Of course, while perhaps unusual in its fervor and particular in its theories, the rhetoric of Mormon leaders was lamentably within the mainstream of white American opinion. White Christians of many denominational stripes used repugnant language to justify slavery and the inferiority of black people. Most accepted theories that the sins of Cain and Ham had cursed an entire race. Indeed, those white Americans who today express outrage over Mormon racism should remind themselves of their own forebears’ sins before casting stones at the Latter-day Saints.”

https://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/19/opinion/sunday/racism-and-the-mormon-church.html

----

Because this was Mormon doctrine, the subject line of this thread is seemingly not out of line. However, certain comments could well be. And, as with most things, intent is everything.

I continue to be amazed, and dismayed, that before I chose to be baptized in the Mormon Church, I had NO CLUE about its racist doctrine. In fact, I didn't even find out in my three years in the church. I only stumbled across this fact after finding RfM. I was horrified at the time that I didn't know. My sister's children are mixed race. I felt like I had betrayed them. I slap myself for my ignorance.

And I'm sorry.

Don't feel sad, sweet darling. You didn't go out and say, "I think I'll join a religion that doesn't care for brown people much."

You're my girl, and I love you. And none of the crap stuff they teach is on you, okay? It's not your burden to bear.

Thank you, Beth. Your kind words mean a lot.

Carry on. (I too am riveted by the ducks, etc). :)

In fact, that's a good title for your bio: Ducks etc. I would buy it! (I love understated titles and wording, especially for significant and amazing accounts of various lives).



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/05/2020 03:02PM by Nightingale.

Many of us did not know of the actual statements and teachings before joining when younger.
Even reading of the dark skin marker on "Lamanites" did not really register back then.
When we finally moved to Utah and ran into folks who would actually go up and touch the skin of a black person in the store - and then look at their finger like they thought the color would come off, we were shocked. In asking one good member about that attitude(Brigham City) we were even more shocked when they came back with "We know a negro"...

Started looking much more closely, asking questions and looking and in short order we were out of State and out of LDS completely.

The original post was not completely 'tongue in cheek' - but more a commentary of willful ignorance.

The missionary who baptized me was white ..... many years later he takes a DNA test and guess what .... he has blac blood in one of his lines ....oops ...i guess he didnt really have the authority to baptize me, shall i class my baptism null and void?
Where was the power of discernment when he got the priesthood???????????

My eldest son did the 'send me your spit' thing and is 3% Sub-Saharan African.

Now the question (that I don't care about) is, was it from his mom, the Anglo, or was it from me, the Mexican?

Jesus can tell me, later.

is the ^^^^^ phrase found in MORmON literature?

Chapter 3
Mormonism’s Negro Doctrine: An Historical Overview
Lester E. Bush, Jr.

“any man having one drop of the seed of [Cain]
… in him cannot hold the priesthood and if no other Prophet ever spake it before I will say it now in the name of Jesus Christ I know it is true and others know it …

–Brigham Young, 1852

http://signaturebookslibrary.org/neither-white-nor-black-03/


The above article makes liberal use of the word 'Negro'. I don't quickly see, in any reference I have perused this week, the exact phrase "negro blood" related to this Mormon doctrine. That doesn't mean it's absolutely not there. Someone else more familiar than I am will hopefully weigh in.

I think it is well known that the biblical Cain was "black" and is used as a metaphor to denote sin, in my experience. Therefore, "seed of Cain" is derogatory, at best.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/05/2020 10:28PM by Nightingale.

Found this from a quick google search:

"We must not inter-marry with the Negro. Why? If I were to marry a Negro woman and have children by her, my children would all be cursed as to the priesthood… If there is one drop of Negro blood in my children, as I have read to you, they receive the curse." (Race Problems — As They Affect the Church, speech by Mark E. Petersen, BYU, August 27, 1954)

"When informed that a black Mormon in Massachusetts had married a white woman, Brigham Young told the apostles in December 1847 that he would have both of them killed 'if they were far away from the Gentiles.'"(The Mormon Hierarchy: Extensions of Power, Vol. 2, pages 246-247)

https://www.exmormon.org/d6/drupal/bloodatn

"Smith's successor Brigham Young publicly taught on at least three occasions (1847,[17] 1852,[45] and 1865[46]) that the punishment for black-white interracial marriage was death, and that killing a black-white interracial couple and their children as part of a blood atonement would be a blessing to them.[29]:37,39[47] He further stated his belief that interracial children should remain childless "like a mule".[17] Young taught that the moment the church consents to white members having children with black individuals the church would go to destruction,[29]:37[48] and that, "Any man having one drop of the seed of Cane in him cannot hold the priesthood."[49] Young also taught that people who had children with a black person would be cursed to the priesthood.[29]:37

"Blood atonement is the doctrine that some crimes are so heinous that the atonement of Jesus does not apply, including miscegenation. Instead, to atone for these sins, the perpetrators should be killed in a way that would allow their blood to be shed upon the ground as a sacrificial offering. This doctrine was the most widespread during the Mormon Reformation. Examples of Young's teaching on this and interracial relationships include the following:


"1847 — Young heard of a Mormon family composed of a black man Enoch Lovejoy Lewis (son of ordained priesthood holder Kwaku Walker Lewis), a white woman Mary Matilda Webster, and their interracial child living in Massachusetts and responded that if the family wasn't living so close to non-Mormons "they would all have to be killed" since the law is that black and white seed should not be "amalgamated".[17]

"1852 — As territory governor, Young stated before the territory legislature that if a white man had children with a black woman, he should request to have his head chopped off. He continued saying that if someone were to kill the man, woman and any children of such a union, that it would be a blessing to them and "it would do a great deal towards atoning for the sin".[50][45]

"1865 — In a speech in the Salt Lake Tabernacle Young repeated the teaching of death as punishment for black and white individuals producing interracial offspring, stating that this penalty would always be in place.[46][29]:42–43 In regards to the 1865 statement, the LDS apologist organization FairMormon argues that "Brigham Young's comments were a condemnation of abuse and rape of helpless black women, and not an overtly racist statement condemning interracial marriage."[51]

"Interracial marriages of William McCary
In 1847, former slave[52]:100 and Mormon convert William McCary drew the ire of Brigham Young and others in Nauvoo for his marriage to the white Mormon Lucy Stanton, and his later alleged mixed-race polygamous sealings to other white women without authorization.[52]:98[53]:227–228 McCary claimed Native American heritage in order to marry Stanton and avoid the greater stigma that the few black people in Nauvoo faced.[52]:107–108,113 The most common interpretation of the interracial events around McCary and his excommunication is that they contributed to or precipitated the subsequent ban of black members from temple ordinances and priesthood authority.[52]:98,117 McCary elicited the first recorded general authority statement connecting race and the priesthood when the apostle Parley Pratt referred to him as the "black man who has got the blood of Ham in him which linege [sic] was cursed as regards the priesthood."[53]:228

"Lynching of Thomas Coleman
In 1866 Thomas Coleman, a black member of the LDS church, was murdered in Salt Lake City after it was discovered that he was courting a white woman. His throat was slit so deeply from ear to ear that he was nearly decapitated, and his right breast was slit open, similar to the penalties illustrated in the temple ritual and taught by Brigham Young. He was castrated and a note warning black men to stay away from white women was pinned to his chest. Historian Michael Quinn states that this murder was a fulfillment of Young's 1852 teaching that the penalty for miscegenation was decapitation.[54] FairMormon argues that Coleman's death may have been unrelated to Young's teachings or temple penalties, since Coleman was not an endowed member.[55]"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interracial_marriage_and_The_Church_of_Jesus_Christ_of_Latter-day_Saints#Brigham_Young

the BackStory on this is a familiar one in MORMON lore; when something blows up, quietly retreat; Very Quietly.

Who is black ?



https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/jefferson/mixed/onedrop.html

Begin forwarded message:

From: XXXXXXX
Subject: RE: Hi, Professor -- I have a question
Date: October 17, 2011 at 12:59:47 PM PDT
To: XXXXXXX

Wow, yes your memory is correct. I doubt many people can remember a conversation a dozen years back.

Irish were considered ‘colored’ and cast as a distinct (and inferior) race. Early English travel logs of Ireland described them as bestial (I think Giraldus Cambrensis The Topography of Ireland has some of this sort of thing in it). A good source on the Irish as a race is a book called “How the Irish became White” It ought to be available pretty easily.

Hope that helps.

Best,

XXXXXXX

From: Beth
Sent: Monday, October 17, 2011 2:31 PM
To: XXXX
Subject: Hi, Professor -- I have a question

Dear Professor XXXX,

I was part of XXXXXXXs senior seminar (1999?) the year you came and guest lectured for a position at XXXXX. I enjoyed your lecture immensely, and I've been sharing something you taught me. I believe you said something to the effect that race is a social construct, and the first time it was used, the English used it to describe the Irish as other. I have two questions:

1. Is my memory reliable?

2. If so, do you have a primary source for this use of the word? I can't find anything through God Google.

Best wishes to you and to those you love,
Beth