Hey guys, been a while. I had a question that I figured this group would be able to answer better than anywhere else.

Do we have any definitive proof that Joseph Smith's early sacrament was more than just one little sip of wine and then pass? I just can't bring my self to think they didn't capitalize on using a mind relaxing substance as a sacrament... but I could be wrong.

At the very least, I figure there was no WAY Jesus and company were only sipping once!

Even FairMormon admits that TSCC used sacramental wine up to the early 20th century.

"In keeping with the change in emphasis, the First Presidency and Twelve substituted water for wine in the sacrament in their temple meetings, apparently beginning July 5, 1906."

https://www.fairmormon.org/answers/Mormon_ordinances/Sacrament/Method_of_administration

Knocks down the idea that Jesus drank grape juice.

I think part of the reason that the rituals were not to be spoken of was so that they could be different for different people.
For example, I suspect the s̶e̶c̶r̶e̶t̶ "sacred" rituals for certain sweet young things was much different than for the rank and file.
One only need to look at groups like the FLDS to see this still in play in modern times.

In other words, for certain special young ladies, I wouldn't be surprise if large quantities of sacramental wine was consumed to lower their resistance level.

No way to know how much was consumed in general, or on "special" occasions, because it was s̶e̶c̶r̶e̶t̶ "sacred".

https://www.sunstonemagazine.com/pdf/003-74-84.pdf

"Most people in Dixie drank wine socially. Them Dixie Saints didn't consider wine a sin - wine was an important part of the social pattern. The early colonists didn't drink often or much, maybe a glass a day. "It was a common drink, somewhat like Pepsi or Coke is today."

"But as the abuse of the Sacramental wine increased, wine was
abandoned in favor of water in sacramental services. A directive to this end was issued by the St. George Stake on
9 July 1892."

When I read the stories about angels and what-not appearing at early church meetings, I'm inclined to think there was some powerful stuff being passed around.

IIRC, Apostle William McLellin was disgusted that the dedication of the Kirtland temple was a "drunken orgy" because of the sacramental wine.

RPackham Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ... disgusted that
> the dedication of the Kirtland temple was a "drunken orgy" because of the sacramental wine.
>

Or because of the "saints"
.

BY sent settlers to St. George to produce wine for the sacrament. In spite of the church being small, production never met the requirement for all that wine. The church owned the vineyards for decades, but eventually sold them to someone like Welch's.