New member here and newly exploring breaking down conditioning. I actually have been inactive since November 2018. It's not the first time I've been inactive although I was raised in the church and baptized at 8, etc.

The thing I have noticed both times I have gone inactive, is the recognition of a sort of.... The only way I can describe it, is an infantilization in mindset. Like, when I was in the church, I was in it to win it, abstaining from all the stuff you are supposed to avoid and totally obedient to the words of the prophets. At the time, especially this last time(2016-2018), I found a wellspring of motivation to self-improvement and industrious nature. I went to BYU-I for a year and had all these plans.

Looking back...there's something very childish and naive about the way I looked at the world. Like, I could do anything with the Spirit and it made me charge after things that I don't actually want(I was going to be an English teacher. Um...Andy, you hate kids? What are you doing?). It made me look at problems in a very simplified light, as if you can just choose yourself out of depression or gender dysphoria(both which I suffer with). Now that I've been watching a few ExMo youtube channels, I realize how it never occurred to me to question the highly edited books "Teachings of the Presidents" that we'd get every so often, nor did I even think to look at inconsistencies in things current and past prophets said to contradict each other. Like a little kid, blindly obedient, yet I'm 33.

Is this unique to Mormonism or is this something cult related, you think? Do you know what I am talking about? Like, it's more than simply clean living, but as if not watching R rated movies reduces your understanding of humanity, human nature, the grittiness of reality and human experience. Not that those are good teaching tools, but that in general, lack of exposure brings with it an innocence/ignorance that I have only recognized once I've shed the coat.

This is the first exmo group I've been in, the first time I've considered myself ex- rather than simply "inactive"(the CES letter is what finally did it). I'm a transman and for the first time in my life feeling genuinely myself. I just wanted to commiserate on this "childish mindset" thing because in watching videos now, I go through my old thoughts and analyze them and I am surprised to find how little I actually questioned or doubted or even searched. I was told a thing and I trusted and it feels like something about the culture of the church insulated me and kept me from truly SEEING the world as it is.

I know exactly what you are talking about. BIC here and couldn't have wanted to be the perfect Mormon more.


When I saw the infantilization you speak of was on my mission. The difference between us the Mormons and the very sophisticated people of the country I went to was remarkable. I knew right away I could learn more from them than they could from me.

Then, BYU. OMG and Shuckie Darn! Talk about infantilization. It was unbearable. Can you imagine living that way for eternity?



Luckily I finally figured out the church was a lie just when I was so sick of the sickeningly syrupy arrogance of Mormon behavior even vomiting wouldn't have helped.

"Then, BYU. OMG and Shuckie Darn! Talk about infantilization. It was unbearable. Can you imagine living that way for eternity?"


Yes! I went to Rexburg, Idaho and the school and town are very "take it for granted" Mormon. It felt very isolated with a lack of connection or coherence about why people sin or why they might want to sin.

Are "infantile" and "juvenile" similar? Related?

I know I'm not "infantile" (although a nice set of ꙭ does draw one's eyes...), but in comparing myself to others, I've never attained "adulthood".

And TBMs definitely don't appreciate laughter as I do.

Fart cushions in the temple is what I'm all about! Screw you, Even Jesus, and the donkey you rode in on! (Actually, no, not the donkey!) Okay, maybe I am infantile...

The church stunts its members emotionally because it wants them to be childlike and dependent on the church. The infantilization is actually codified in the BOM.

Mosiah 3:19
"For the natural man is an enemy to God, and has been from the fall of Adam, and will be, forever and ever, unless he yields to the enticings of the Holy Spirit, and putteth off the natural man and becometh a saint through the atonement of Christ the Lord, and becometh as a child, submissive, meek, humble, patient, full of love, willing to submit to all things which the Lord seeth fit to inflict upon him, even as a child doth submit to his father."

The purposeful use of the word "inflict" is also telling. I'm not aware of that word ever being used in a positive sense, but rather only in the context of pain and punishment, similar to "endure to the end." The church programs and grooms mormons to practically expect to be abused, and to take it all without complaint ("murmuring is bad"). It's truly sinister and malicious.

" . . . stunts it's members emotionally . . " I would add mentally.

Anyway---You gave me a horrible flashback of seeing an entire group of Mormon middle age adults singing "I Am Child of God" and the congregation was eating it up with not a dry eye in the house---well except for me as I was only there out of duty that day.

presenting. I have noticed, (and recently been thinking about) how our TBM UT family do not seem like adults in their interactions.

Someone once wrote on this board that "immaturity is pandemic" in Utah.

Yes, it is.

the Mormon brand of expecting perfection is a sure path to disappointment & depression.

the Q guys gotta know what they're doing, just like a person (guy) grooms another for obedience to sexual & other forms of control - performance to meet their twisted needs / desires.


ChurchCo is Pure Evil.

Mormonism infantiles adults because they're not allowed to do adult things like have coffee, watch certain movies, and do things typical adults do. They're also not allowed to read books written for adults, so many TBM's are obsessed with Harry Potter, Twilight, and other things written for teens. It's also why they're obsessed with anything Disney as it's the safe form of entertainment that adults can do without being judged.

These are all really good points and makes me feel reassured that I'm not the only one who saw this.

The church wants the members to be dependent upon it, the way children are dependent upon parents. This was made clear when Elder Poleman, in a conference talk, said that as we grow in the gospel we become less dependent upon the institutional church. He had to re-record a censored version of the talk, removing any hint of the idea members could ever get along with less attachment to the church and the brethren.

That's how Mormonism and cults work.

Mormonism only works when you don't think/ aren't thinking.

When you are it's a whole other world.

Life is more exciting when you are living it, as you, rather than just going through it to get to the end (like seemingly to many).

Welcome. Take off your shoes, please, and pull up a chair. Would you like something to drink?

Unless ye become as little children ye can in nowise enter into the kingdom of god.

My favorite scripture was "it is not meet that you are commanded in all things." Basically the exact opposite of the church today.

I Agree with Heartless; ChurchCo can't find a reasonable balance in Anything (as if they want to!!)

I believe he was mormon because it was his heritage. My sister just said that our heritage from his side of the family is they are all heretics. We get a big kick out of that. We were just talking about that earlier.

There were times my father couldn't figure out what the hell he'd done as we were free thinkers, even his 3 daughters.

All of my siblings were out of the church except one sister and my disabled brother long before I left. I was going to make it. I was going to prove I could do it. Then I found out my boyfriend was gay. I could never explain the insanity they put us through if I tried.

My sister who still goes, but doesn't believe except she believes in God and Jesus, but she said a new thing in church is PURE OBEDIENCE. What is that? What you are talking about. She is furious.

It is nice that I get to make MY OWN CHOICES. Like my exmo therapist said to me years ago, we tested mormonism to its limits and it failed us. We trusted them. We followed them and what did it get us? I'm 63. I quit going when I was about 38. I really quit believing at age 25.

It's rather insidious, as I go through information right now and imagine what my 80 year old grandfather would say(who has been a member in high standing and authority for years) in defense. He would call me prideful, trusting to my own authority and understanding, when in actuality, in my current research on this topic, it is stuff that has been said and put out by the church itself. Are prophets and apostles God's will and voice on this earth or not?

I feel like I'm watching a magic show wherein "my chosen card" has fallen from the sleeve of the magician before the trick has been finished, and he looks at me and says, "Maybe you should pray about this. What does the Spirit testify to you?"

There have been many complaints over the years about the YSA being infantilized -- both with the activities offered, and with the need for supervision of meetings and activities by a married couple, even if that married couple is younger than most of the YSAs.

ChurchCo: the Simon Says (corporation masking as a) religion.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/08/2020 01:56PM by GNPE.