Here in Bellevue, WA I ran into 3 female mishies. We talked about LDS music....they asked me what is my favorite Hymn. I said "Praise to the Man".

One of them said the hymn is NOT speaking of Joseph Smith, but rather talking about Jesus. So I googled the lyrics on my cell phone, and we read them aloud. Obviously the "man" in the song is Joseph Smith.

They STILL said no, the man is Jesus. This kind of thing is absolutely crazy....what other lies do they tell to their contacts?

Sounds more like delusions or deep denial than lies.

The word "lie" gets thrown around with wild abandon here. It'd be nice to see a little nuance.

Verse one would then have Jesus anointing himself to open the last dispensation, and verse four calls Joseph by name.

It isn't about Jesus and never was.

Mormonism is not what you see and hear in mormonism!


1. Praise to the man who communed with Jehovah!
Jesus anointed that Prophet and Seer.
Blessed to open the last dispensation,
Kings shall extol him, and nations revere.

4. Sacrifice brings forth the blessings of heaven;
Earth must atone for the blood of that man.
Wake up the world for the conflict of justice.
Millions shall know "Brother Joseph" again.

So, "Praise to the man who communed with Jehovah," means Jesus talking to Jesus? Hmm.

And Jesus anointed himself?

Maybe they mean he annoys himself

So either Jesus came back as Joseph for one more round of trying to get his pathetic church up and running or the sister missionaries can't face the obvious--which is how you stay Mormon, which is a full time job.

(Only word that comes to mind now) Rancid....

Were the 'sisters' wearing masks???


btw: Is ChurchCo still sending mishes on long trips to their assignments? The safety of COVID traveling is, well, you know...

I guess lots of mishes that were 'serving' before COVID kicked in will need to travel home via air.

The original version of Verse 2 read -

"Long shall his blood, which was shed by assassins;
Stain Illinois, while the earth lauds his fame."

https://www.hymnwiki.org/Praise_to_the_Man

https://archive.org/details/reliefsocietyson00reli/page/n35/mode/2up

I don't think Jesus died in Illinois.

I disagree with BOJ here. The girls are IMO straight-up lying and should be called out for it.

You've come a long way out of mormonism if you can hear the melody and think of this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xqeYKf8tdsU


You're totally cured if you ever get this one pegged into your brain:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L_OHaipe9KU

Ah, memories of my trips to Scotland. Thanks for sharing.

this Question / controversy is Clearly a matter for the attention of Mr. Nelson;

Is the supply of ink adequate & fresh batteries in his pen?

Gosh I hope so, there are many issues calling out for his guidance - attention;

'Where there is no vision, the people perish' Proverbs 29:18

O Wait...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/22/2020 04:14PM by GNPE.

They are lying.

2014 talk all about JS
https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/general-conference/2014/10/joseph-smith?lang=eng&para=38

"The opening hymn was Praise to the Man. They were singing of the Prophet Joseph Smith"

That snippet has been removed from the official talk.

Why?

Because LDS Corp is whitewashing their JS idolatry. The synopsis of the talk "Joseph Smith" is all about Jesus Christ choosing JS.

That's why the church can never be trusted or believed.

(My attempt to be 'fair')


We of the long-tooth Notice the turn-around in mostly subtle nuances such as this, youngers Don't.

(I have a g.daughter "serving" a mission now, I wouldn't wish to saddle her with the naming / category of being a liar / telling lies <which is an intentional act>)

I realize that you love your granddaughter, but when you are selling something, isn't it your job to know your product? If the missionaries went to daily seminary class in high school, wouldn't this have been discussed somewhere along the way?

summer, with respect:

If you're saying / suggesting that seminary & other church education gives a balanced view of ChurchCo, the development (changes) of teachings, perspectives, and outright, 180 degree changes in ^^^^, I gotta call NO on that;

professional salespeople, Yes, I agree, but this suggested analogy Fails Horribly.

edited to add: Mormons live in a Bubble, even SS teachers, speakers in SMs often don't notice the sometimes subtle, sometimes Not Subtle ways thing change in Morland; add to that the effective avoidance of 'being pinned down' (an LDS art in itself!) > a unique type of head-in-sand situation.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/22/2020 10:45PM by GNPE.

So, you think that their lack of knowledge reflects a general downgrading of Joseph Smith? Heck, I'm a nevermo and even I know that "Praise to the Man" is about Joseph Smith.

That's crazy when you show them the lyrics and they still insist it's Jesus that they're singing about.
I heard that the church is being pressured into talking more about Jesus than JS now for appearances sake.
Wonder if it's that, them being pressured to outright lie.
Probably like you can't say " Mormon" anymore.

Mormons are deluded into their thought patterns, such as 'Follow the Prophet', lots of us agree that the Mormon 'guy behind the curtain' is one of the most effective propaganda conduits on the face of the planet!

Compare 'Dear Leader' in N. Korea, Putin, & other contemporary leaders, it's difficult to understate how effective the results of this are....

Us olders remember how George Romney was denigrated for telling the truth about how the military upper echelon leaders (attempted to) brainwash him into the POV that the Viet Nam war was winnable?

Hockeyrat Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I heard that the church is being pressured into
> talking more about Jesus than JS now for
> appearances sake.


Yep. Didn't they start changing the signs on the chapels to make the word "Jesus" more prominent about, IDK, 15 years ago? What happens when a peculiar people try to go mainstream?

There's an indication of a bit of a reading comprehension deficit if a person can read the lyrics of "Praise to the Man" and reach the conclusion that the "man" referenced in the hymn is Jesus.

Hockeyrat Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> That's crazy when you show them the lyrics and
> they still insist it's Jesus that they're singing
> about.
> I heard that the church is being pressured into
> talking more about Jesus than JS now for
> appearances sake.
> Wonder if it's that, them being pressured to
> outright lie.
> Probably like you can't say " Mormon" anymore.

Of course they'd love to forget this verse

Mingling with gods he can plan for his brothern
Death shall not conquer the hero again.

So we have gods plainly taught in the hymn.

Did you ask them how magnets work ?

Were they drinking Faygo?

Dammit ! You made me google Faygo. I've never heard of it. Looks like a semi-local drink that is marketed in the midwest and not in the west.

Hmmmm...

When I read your first comment I thought, "Effin magnets! How do they work?", and then I drank some Faygo.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_-agl0pOQfs

"How do magnets work" is a mormon joke about their online chat website. You would immediately get disconnected if you asked that question.

⸘Really‽

I used to ask them about miscegenation and blood atonement.

The last line of verse four is a bit of a non sequitur if the hymn is about Jesus. My guess that their statements were made in ignorance, but I obviously cannot know.

Can one be excused for accepting the training necessary to be ignorant?

"'Praise to the Man' (originally titled 'Joseph Smith') is a poem written as a tribute to Joseph Smith by Latter Day Saint leader and hymn writer William W. Phelps. ... It was first published anonymously in the church newspaper Times and Seasons in August 1844, approximately one month after Smith was killed."


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Praise_to_the_Man#:~:text=%22Praise%20to%20the%20Man%22%20(,Phelps.&text=It%20was%20first%20published%20anonymously,month%20after%20Smith%20was%20killed.

elderolddog Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Can one be excused for accepting the training
> necessary to be ignorant?
>


I would think so if the training were sufficiently lame. It would be interesting to know if anyone in authority actually told this to the young woman who said it, or if she was leaning unto her own understanding, so to speak, when she insisted the song was about Heysuess.

Praise to the Jesus who talked to the Jesus. That actually makes as much sense as most of their other doctrine.

there is not a like button or thumbs up so I have to resort to this .....however, your comment deserves a thumbs up

As much sense as singing it to “Scotland the Brave”.

(my final comment on this?)

I agree the actual words of the Hymn don't support their statement.

we've plainly seen how mormons ignore the Facts of any situation to accommodate what they're told (beliefs, doctrines, etc.)
in church & other church situations...

Anyone who actually, literally believes with understanding all the twists & turns in Church History, the numerous contradictions, the constant changes, etc. ... How might that work?

Magnify that by the naiveté of young missionaries who think their mission is to save souls;

Lying For The Lord?

Once again, the (BS) believer's club of MORmONISM strikes, those sisters are regurgitating something that came down from their MORmON leaders, something to fool potential converts, something that is right in line with the current MORmON theme of abandon the name MORmON so that LDS Inc and its MORmON church (criminal enterprise SCAM) can pretend to be more like conventional Christianity, which now apparently includes de emphasizing the MORmON worship of Joseph Smith .......at least on the surface.

I think most of our displeasure regarding ChurchCo is best placed on the org itself, the missionaries & other rank-and-file aren't important to the MoRoyalty or to local leaders except as tithe-payers & butts in the pews....


Mormonism does a thorough job of de-humanizing 99% of its members, I see little purpose in pinning our dis-satisfaction with Mo Things on them, either family or friends or anyone at the bottom of the Mo food chain...

ChurchCo exploits these people, I see no reason to validate that.

I agree, it's never the "poor bloody infantry's" fault ;-), however infuriating they might be , particularly if they're family members, but at what level do we consider them to be "in on the scam"?

There was a thread recently about "how hostile are you to mormons" and I reflected (but didn't post) that being a member of this forum has made me much more compassionate towards eventual missionary encounters and would probably offer them food ;-), but I think I'd have difficulty with the Mission President, particularly with regard to the self-righteousness I've seen described here.

At what level do people think we should start calling them out?

On the one hand, yes, they are victims. But on the other, the things they do and say as representatives of their beliefs are damaging and harmful. I was a judgemental prick as a TBM. Just because I was brainwashed into thinking that was love, doesn't absolve me from responsibility for things I said and did to shame others, to make them feel unworthy of God's love.

It's easy to think just because some families are happy that Mormonism is harmless. That the only ones who should be held accountable are leadership. I made choices while TBM. I put stuff on my shelf and kept going, helping the leaders spread their lies and defraud people out of time and money.

If a TBM has enough agency to become an exmo, then they have enough agency to make TBM choices for faith as well.

Wouldn't the other two lady missionaries correct the one who was confused/mistaken?

Hard to believe that one would "misspeak" and the other two would look on with disbelief, if not embarrassment.

the above two posts underline how complex & how well Morbots are bamboozled into compliance - conformity ChurchCo insists its members be / function at the minimum level of awareness.

I do like bringing things to people's attention-casually. That was very beneficial to me while on my mission and helped jump start some thinking for myself. I consider one very friendly and charming guy's questioning of my testimony to be the first minuscule step out of the cult. But the comment had to percolate for a long while.

If the encounter was friendly as the lyrics were read out loud, I Would suspect every time that missionary sings that song from here on out that she will recall the conversation and that may spark an "aha" moment like when the solution to a problem suddenly occurs to you in the shower.

Or she could have one of those steel trap-door mindsets where nothing gets in at all.

> Or she could have one of
> those steel trap-door
> mindsets where nothing
> gets in at all.


There are those who take pride in such an attribute!

Having been a missionary, I don't have a hell of a lot of sympathy for missionaries these days, 20yrs into Google Age. Ignorance is no excuse in the Google age. They lie through their teeth to defend the ignorant nonsense they are peddling. If they don't know, it's because they choose ignorance over truth.

your post seems to discount the propaganda & obfuscation that spews from the 15 & COB.

Reminds me of the accountant joke: 2 + 2 is whatever the client wants it to be...

It's so much a cover-up operation (starting with finances), their effect on young, impressionable minds most which have lived only with parents.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/23/2020 09:42PM by GNPE.

GNPE Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> your post seems to discount the propaganda &
> obfuscation that spews from the 15 & COB.
>
> Reminds me of the accountant joke: 2 + 2 is
> whatever the client wants it to be...
>
> It's so much a cover-up operation (starting with
> finances), their effect on young, impressionable
> minds most which have lived only with parents.

They're grown ass adults who grew up with Google at their fingertips and smart phones as appendages. I was hitch hiking across 3 continents at their age. My daughter was a soldier in the Army at their age, fighting a cyber war against our greatest enemies. And you're telling me they are too young to Google "Praise To The Man, Joseph Smith"?
ExMos need to quit coddling MORmON Missionaries.
Like Ayan Hirsi Ali said,"I cause CogDis, which will either drive them insane or drive them sane. I hope for the latter, which is all I can do to help them escape their mental bondage after all." 2007 Atheist Alliance International Conference

SC: I'm glad U didn't lead a sheltered life but I'm betting these gals did;

Being in ChurchCo, living with ChurchCo parents, attending ChurchCo seminary, RS, SM & SS removes the desire / motivation to do research into anything possibly contrary to what they've been spoon-fed.

attempting to hold them responsible is a minor degree of Blaming the Victims.

GNPE:

"attempting to hold them responsible is a minor degree of Blaming the Victims."

I agree. When you grow up in such an all-encompassing system, including all your family members and friends, it often takes an earth-shaking event to jar you into questioning things.


Soft Machine:

"...being a member of this forum has made me much more compassionate towards eventual missionary encounters..."

I'm glad, both that the forum has beneficial effects and that you would offer compassion (not surprisingly for you).

As a previous JW, going door to door, I was sometimes startled by what people said, but those who were measured in tone, difficult to fob off with facile responses and offering intriguing thoughts and questions made me think. I eventually got out, for a number of reasons, but non-JWs did have an impact. Being greeted by anger, contempt, impatience, dislike, etc, however, entrenched belief in the "work" we were doing, I can attest, as the leaders constantly framed such responses as coming from a hostile world against Jehovah God and his servants. Then, when it happens, you think that "prophecy" is being fulfilled. It helps you to shake it off. I never found that such reactions promoted thinking outside the JW box.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/24/2020 04:15PM by Nightingale.