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Posted by: elderolddog ( )
Date: February 23, 2021 10:30PM

...asking for a friend.

And yes, being both would be ideal (I try not to brag), but for the sake of this discussion, which of the two would you chose? Even if you didn't have to...

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Posted by: Dave the Atheist ( )
Date: February 23, 2021 10:54PM

Wrongness never was happiness.

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Posted by: Kylo Rey ( )
Date: February 24, 2021 04:48PM

Dave the Atheist Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Wrongness never was happiness.

I used to think there would be a nuclear war in the eighties. I am happy that I was wrong.

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Posted by: Lot's Wife ( )
Date: February 24, 2021 05:16PM

What were you saying about paranoid fantasy just now?

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Posted by: Kylo Rey ( )
Date: February 24, 2021 06:24PM

Lot's Wife Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> What were you saying about paranoid fantasy just
> now?

The world came *very* close to having to going nuclear according to sources on both sides. Then there were various incidents in Berlin we did know about at the time. The Cold War was no fantasy. Nor was the Bay of Pigs or Operation Able Archer in the early eighties which terrified the Soviets.

I'm happy it never happened. But it was no more a fantasy then than climate change is now. I doubt a full scale world war will happen in the near future. At least I hope not.

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Posted by: elderolddog ( )
Date: February 24, 2021 06:30PM

Oh, crap! Way to jinx us...

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Posted by: bradley ( )
Date: February 27, 2021 12:38PM

There are plenty of ways civilization could have ended over the last 10,000 years. Asteroid, coronal mass ejection, x-ray burst from a super nova, supervolcano, etc. But it didn’t. Maybe it’s not supposed to.

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Posted by: Humberto ( )
Date: February 23, 2021 11:04PM

Sometimes it's a challenge to achieve either. I'll take whatever one is easier to get in the moment. Because I believe in being "efficient". Or as my wife calls it, "lazy". But I think those are synonyms, aren't they?

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Posted by: Lethbridge Reprobate ( )
Date: February 23, 2021 11:12PM

Happiness has proven elusive but right gives me a certain satisfaction.

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Posted by: Kathleen ( )
Date: February 23, 2021 11:35PM

Right.

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Posted by: ziller ( )
Date: February 23, 2021 11:49PM

¿ why not both ? ~

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Posted by: Lot's Wife ( )
Date: February 24, 2021 12:13AM

I'm right happy, Guv.

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Posted by: cindysue ( )
Date: February 24, 2021 12:18AM

go with happy on the chance i might be wrong.

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Posted by: Susan I/S ( )
Date: February 24, 2021 02:13AM

Well, it depends on exactly what you mean. If you mean right about LDSInc I would rather be right than "happy" and deluded. If you are talking about bickering with Hubby about putting the top sheet on the bed pattern down I would rather be happy.

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Posted by: Lot's Wife ( )
Date: February 24, 2021 02:26AM

There is a peace that comes with shedding the cognitive dissonance. That peace, or rather that surrender of unhappiness, is an unobtrusive sort of joy.

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Posted by: CL2 ( )
Date: February 24, 2021 09:41AM

right about there being an afterlife, but I have nothing to prove to anyone else. Never have. I just want level. Not happy. No ups, no downs. Some peace for a change.

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Posted by: elderolddog ( )
Date: February 24, 2021 09:50AM

“Blessed are the Level, for their pace never varies, even is their stride, and forward is their direction.”
--Ancient Mexican saying it, hoping for the best for you

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Posted by: Susan I/S ( )
Date: February 24, 2021 11:46AM

That is beautiful. I am going to do something with this to remind me.

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Posted by: elderolddog ( )
Date: February 24, 2021 11:58AM

Thank you, but please realize that Mexicans drink a lot and so it's easy to get lost in the woods and end up not having the slightest idea where you are or where you're going.

But 'intent' is usually an issue that a jury, if not the court, will take into consideration. Good intentions are nice. You can't make much money with them in many venues, but, yeah, very nice.

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Posted by: CL2 ( )
Date: February 24, 2021 12:28PM

It was so nice outside the past few days here in Cache County, Utah, and I woke up to snow. So I needed the laugh!

And thanks for the thought above. I like it, too.

I remember gemini agreeing with me about the "level." Try out a straight/gay marriage and then you just want LEVEL. Please! I still don't have level even if I've worked through all the gay/straight marriage business.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/24/2021 12:29PM by cl2.

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Posted by: gemini ( )
Date: February 24, 2021 01:38PM

Yes, I did. I am approaching level but I still have huge flashbacks, especially now that I am working on my scrapbooks from college and early married life...what a different perspective I have now on that time of my life! Yikes!

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Posted by: Done & Done ( )
Date: February 24, 2021 10:12AM

I don't know what the hell happiness even is. If happiness is supposed to be a state of being, then I am really at a loss.

But to answer the question, I don't think ignorance is bliss. I think ignorance is dangerous to yourself and others. If ignorance makes you happy then you are living in a "fool's paradise." Not really a goal of mine.

Being happy at the expense of having knowledge is like being high because of a drug not because of an accomplishment or a serendipitous circumstance.


You forgot to say "in twenty five words or less" so you get this.

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Posted by: elderolddog ( )
Date: February 24, 2021 10:33AM

"Being 'stupid' in 25 words or less literally takes no talent at all! Here, hold my beer while I show you how it's done, Jack."
--Exactly 25 Words

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Posted by: Susan I/S ( )
Date: February 24, 2021 11:47AM

Happiness is being able to take a deep breath.

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Posted by: elderolddog ( )
Date: February 24, 2021 11:55AM

Hahahahaha! ...as you're running from the grizzly bear who pulled your name out of the hat! Lots of deep breaths, lots of happiness!

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Posted by: Done & Done ( )
Date: February 24, 2021 12:06PM

All the time, but especially in these times. A deep breath can be hard to come by and not just because of the covid.

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Posted by: elderolddog ( )
Date: February 24, 2021 12:26PM

"Deep Breaths as a Statement of Being. You look at the Deep Breath and the Deep Breath looks at you."
--Fred N. Itchie

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Posted by: Done & Done ( )
Date: February 24, 2021 12:45PM

OMG. Hahahahahah hah ha ha ah ha.

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Posted by: Kathleen ( )
Date: February 24, 2021 12:55PM

Now, that’s funny!

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Posted by: Humberto ( )
Date: February 24, 2021 12:57PM

I suddenly feel like oxygen is out to get me.

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Posted by: Lot's Wife ( )
Date: February 27, 2021 01:32AM

It’s not the oxygen that should worry you: it’s EOD’s breath.

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Posted by: schrodingerscat ( )
Date: February 24, 2021 01:16PM

As Americans, we're inculcated from birth to believe these truths to be self-evident, that our God given right to the "pursuit of Happiness" is as unalienable as our right to Liberty and Life itself, because it was enshrined into our National identity and our Declaration of Independence on the 4th of July, 1776.

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."

Ironically, continually pursuing happiness, as if it's this elusive external thing we'll catch one day in the future, makes us miserable. Why?

https://www.psycom.net/why-pursuing-happiness-makes-us-miserable/#

"The problem is, this notion of happiness becomes a constant chase and we’re always moving the target, says human behavior expert Patrick Wanis, PhD. “We place our happiness somewhere off in the future and therefore we’re never able to enjoy where we are now because we’re always thinking we’re only going to be happy when we get to be, do, or have something.”

We Don’t Know What Makes Us Happy
Since money worries make us stressed, we assume more money might be the key to happiness. But, we’re wrong. Research shows that just enough money to get us a little above the poverty line does increase happiness, but beyond that, it has no correlation to happiness, says Richmond, Virginia-based therapist Susan J. Buniva, MSW, LCSW.

“It is an illusion that external events or circumstances like wealth or marriage will create happiness,” she says. “When we look outside ourselves for happiness, we no longer have agency over our own happiness and count on others to make us happy or we depend on things to fill us up,” Buniva says.

We Might Not Even Know What Happiness Is
The other problem is that the pursuit of happiness is also often based on the idea that happiness means joyfulness and excitement, says Ontario, Canada-based clinical psychologist Jennifer Barbera, PhD. But humans aren’t designed to stay perpetually excited or joyful. “If one is focused on the pursuit of happiness, even if happiness is momentarily achieved, what is one to do when these feelings wax and wane? “This can become a trap because a person who sets a strong intention to strive for happiness may then feel disappointed and less happy when they run into the reality that joy and excitement cannot last indefinitely,” Dr. Barbera says.

Happiness Is An Elusive Goal
When happiness is seen as somewhere off in the future, it’s always out of your grasp, Dr. Wanis says. “If you’re not able to be in the present moment, you’re actually avoiding experiencing what’s happening right now, which is not always going to be joy, happiness, or pleasure. It can be pain; it can be sadness; it can be loss. It can be disappointment. We end up repressing, denying, or distracting ourselves from these feelings so we can keep focusing on this elusive goal,” Dr. Wanis says.

The hunt for happiness doesn’t need to involve chasing after something; it’s more about seeing what’s already here and learning to appreciate by trying these kinds of mindfulness strategies.

1. Live in alignment with your values.
2. Try to be completely engaged in something you enjoy.
3. Look for a sense of significance.

Or like the Buddha said,
"The key to happiness is,
expect nothing and
appreciate everything."

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Posted by: elderolddog ( )
Date: February 24, 2021 04:45PM

Any advice for the Canadians (Canadiennes, cuz it looks funny!), British & Expats, our new Swedish member, the Australians, y etcetera...?

Although if you don't think they count towards your bonus points, I'm cool with that.


To cover all the bases, here's the Preamble to the UN's Universal Declaration of Human Rights:

Whereas recognition of the inherent dignity and of the equal and inalienable rights of all members of the human family is the foundation of freedom, justice and peace in the world,

Whereas disregard and contempt for human rights have resulted in barbarous acts which have outraged the conscience of mankind, and the advent of a world in which human beings shall enjoy freedom of speech and belief and freedom from fear and want has been proclaimed as the highest aspiration of the common people,

Whereas it is essential, if man is not to be compelled to have recourse, as a last resort, to rebellion against tyranny and oppression, that human rights should be protected by the rule of law,

Whereas it is essential to promote the development of friendly relations between nations,

Whereas the peoples of the United Nations have in the Charter reaffirmed their faith in fundamental human rights, in the dignity and worth of the human person and in the equal rights of men and women and have determined to promote social progress and better standards of life in larger freedom,

Whereas Member States have pledged themselves to achieve, in co-operation with the United Nations, the promotion of universal respect for and observance of human rights and fundamental freedoms,

Whereas a common understanding of these rights and freedoms is of the greatest importance for the full realization of this pledge,

Now, Therefore THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY proclaims THIS UNIVERSAL DECLARATION OF HUMAN RIGHTS as a common standard of achievement for all peoples and all nations, to the end that every individual and every organ of society, keeping this Declaration constantly in mind, shall strive by teaching and education to promote respect for these rights and freedoms and by progressive measures, national and international, to secure their universal and effective recognition and observance, both among the peoples of Member States themselves and among the peoples of territories under their jurisdiction."


Then they list 30 Articles. I think they pretty much covered all the important issues. They even made it clear that your right to rub your belly while patting your head is inviolate!

Good people, those UN'ers!

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Posted by: Mother Who Knows ( )
Date: February 26, 2021 05:44AM

Schrodingerscat, I copied your post to show my children.

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Posted by: schrodingerscat ( )
Date: February 26, 2021 12:18PM

Mother Who Knows Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Schrodingerscat, I copied your post to show my
> children.

Nice. That was the point of one of the greatest lectures I ever heard in college. My Psych 101 Professor showed the Bruce Springsteen video, "Glory Days" and said, "You're probably thinking to yourself, man I can't wait until this class is over so I can go to lunch! Or, you might be thinking, Man I can't wait until this quarter is over so I can go on Spring Break! or Man I can't wait until this year is over so I can graduate and get a job! or Man I can't wait until I get a job and get married! Or Man I can't wait until I get a house with a white picket fence! Or Man I can't wait until I retire! But you're here right now for the next half an hour, so why not enjoy it and learn as much as you possibly can? Because you might get to your destination and find out it doesn't make you happy or fulfilled and you wasted your whole life making yourself miserable for what?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/26/2021 12:19PM by schrodingerscat.

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Posted by: Richard Foxe ( )
Date: February 26, 2021 07:51PM

This is the central dictum of the ego (A Course in Miracles). This relates to the OP: be careful that your sense of "right" is not the ego's present snap-shot of "according to what I presently know." The ego does NOT know: it is woefully blinkered, selfishly distorting, and bound to the latest tidbit of skewed information. It has separation, limitation, and dissatisfaction as its primal qualities, and its "painted rice cakes do not satisfy hunger."

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Posted by: Dr. No ( )
Date: February 24, 2021 05:31PM

That way more time to work on that happy stuuff ;-)

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Posted by: summer ( )
Date: February 24, 2021 05:41PM

Being right about what, exactly?

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Posted by: elderolddog ( )
Date: February 24, 2021 06:10PM

> Being right about what, exactly?

Way to go, Summer! Mostly I have been noodling around with The Cat's need/desire to be on the right side of history.

> I care about always being found
> on the right side of history.
  https://www.exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,2360140,2360147#msg-2360147

> I care about history.
> I care about always being found
> on the right side of history.
 https://www.exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,2359970,2360014#msg-2360014


So you got to the heart of the issue bothering me. Who doesn't want to be 'right'?

But what is 'right'?

And what if what everyone else says is 'right', isn't 'right' for you?

It is not in my nature to suggest to people how to live their lives. I was a lousy missionary. I don't think I preach any particular path here on RfM, other than to agree that the mormon way is not the right way, when you allow SLC & the COB to direct you. Lots of religions produce good people.

A casual review shows being 'right' to be in the minority as a choice in this silly survey, and even that is open to speculation as to the definition of 'right'.

There are those who believe there is a 'right' way to be, and maybe that's what 'happiness' is to the rest of us, 'happy' because we're in control or moving with the flow.

No man is an island, unless he wants to be.

Life, its ownself pretty much keeps to itself. I'm not aware of anyone being able to prove that they speak for it.

Now go forth and multiply and replenish the Earth...

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Posted by: schrodingerscat ( )
Date: February 24, 2021 08:07PM

elderolddog Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Who doesn't want to be 'right'?

Steve Jobs and Jeff Bezos,

"Scott says she was having a conversation about Steve Jobs with Andy Grove, the former CEO of Intel, and Grove remarked, "F-ing Steve always gets it right."

Scott replied, "Nobody's always right." But then Grove clarified: "I didn't say Steve is always right. I said he always gets it right. Like anyone, he is wrong all the time, but he insists--and not gently, either--that people tell him when he's wrong. So, he always gets it right in the end."

"In an interview with CNBC, Bezos remarked that he is much less interested in promoting people who are smart than he is about filling his organization with people who are right most of the time. "I don't care how smart they are," he said. "I want to see a track record of hard decisions that ended up being right."

In other words, Bezos gives leadership opportunities to those with a track record of delivering the best results--even when the right move challenges Bezos's own point of view. Like Jobs, what is most important to Bezos is not that he be right, but that his team gets to the right answers.

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/jeff-bezos-steve-jobs-didnt-care-being-right-heres-what-glazer/

>
> But what is 'right'?

The opposite of 'wrong'.

>
> And what if what everyone else says is 'right',
> isn't 'right' for you?

Either you're wrong, or everyone else is.

> It is not in my nature to suggest to people how to
> live their lives. I was a lousy missionary.

#metoo

> Now go forth and multiply and replenish the
> Earth...

The four F's are common motivation for all species.

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Posted by: summer ( )
Date: February 27, 2021 12:38AM

>> "In an interview with CNBC, Bezos remarked that he is much less interested in promoting people who are smart than he is about filling his organization with people who are right most of the time. "I don't care how smart they are," he said. "I want to see a track record of hard decisions that ended up being right."

That was my dad's philosophy of management. He felt that management was all about decision making, and that you don't need to make the correct decision all of the time. But you have to make correct decisions most of the time.

I would add to that, you can only make good decisions when you are in possession of all of the relevant facts.

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Posted by: Kathleen ( )
Date: February 27, 2021 01:28AM

My son always says, “Make a decision, and then make the decision work.”

He’s done well living by that.

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Posted by: bradley ( )
Date: February 27, 2021 12:58PM

“But what is 'right'?”

Rush is Right. Right dead.

In order for you to be right, someone else has to be wrong. Sometimes you should be wrong on purpose just so the other person gets to be right. Works great in relationships.

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Posted by: Adam the warrior ( )
Date: February 25, 2021 11:31PM

Happy for sure. Real happiness has eluded me since being a child.

I always said that even if any religion was the "correct" one if I feel miserable and controlled ghd whole time down to what I do to my private parts then I want no part of it. You can be miserable in a "true" or "God's real religion" but whats the point if you feel controlled and miserable and you have no identity or autonomy of your own.

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Posted by: moremany ( )
Date: February 26, 2021 01:13AM

elderolddog Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ...asking for a friend.
>
>... but for the sake of this discussion, which of the two would you chose? Even if you didn't have to... >

Who says we have to?
Asking for a friend.

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Posted by: Adam the Warrior ( )
Date: February 26, 2021 01:41PM

I wonder if asking for a friend is code for asking for myself.

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Posted by: Lot's Wife ( )
Date: February 26, 2021 02:22PM

I don't think so.

--Stating that for a friend.






;)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/26/2021 02:22PM by Lot's Wife.

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Posted by: bradley ( )
Date: February 27, 2021 12:21AM

Looking back at the pain and suffering I’ve gone through for the sake of my own sanity, I find sanity a bit over-rated.

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