My wife thinks other men are more righteous than me.

My TBM wife admires righteous priesthood holders. She idolizes them (she has photos of some of them on her wall, men like Thomas S. Monson). She has them over to the house as home teachers, or bishopricks. She watches them in the stands at church. She sees them batpizing their children, weeping from the pulpit during talks, giving blessings, and talking at general conference. She reads their words daily. I am compared to those men for not behaving like them.

She doesn't know these men in a deep or personal matter, just what she sees at church and during meetings. She won't listen to me when I explain that they are men, too, and no more honest or hard-working than me. I've seen these men lose their temper, heard them say vulgar things. But on Sundays, the can pour on a tear-ful lesson and my wife swoons.

It makes me wonder about my self-worth. Sure, I earn an income that allows her to stay at home. Yes, I treat her and the children with love and patience. I cook, I clean, I do chores. I keep myself fit, active, healthy and encourage the same from her.

Despite this, nothing I do is enough to meet her need for a "spiritual leader" in the house. I am a not worthy enough. I'm a less than.

It would be depressing if I obsessed over it. (I don't, I'm sharing this for a point).

I wonder:

Is this any different from the OP earlier who was upset about her husband for looking at women other than her?

Is the poster of the first presidency in my bedroom worse than a pinup of a girl in a bikini on a bedroom wall? (for the record, I don't have any)

A woman might accuse a man of having a porn-addiction. Might a TBM woman have a righteous-leader addiction?

Any thoughts?

I would go more in depth, but I really need to run errands soon, so I'll think about your questions while I'm out and about.
This is definitely a diving, complicated, question about the social and cultural expectations and influences of men and women.

I will say this real quick: When you objectify someone, you strip them of their humanity and there's a difference between appreciation and objectification.

Itzpapalotl Wrote:
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> When you objectify someone, you strip them of their humanity and there's a difference between appreciation and objectification.


Well put^^^

Very well stated. I am in the same boat with the way my wife looks to these "great" men.

I have heard time and again how I wasn't doing things the "right" way when I was a believer. I have never been Mormon enough for her.

So while I understand that you are making a point. I think in all honestly that some of these men and women do treat these church leaders like they are something special.

What did I learn when I was in the church..... Church, then spouse.

I agree hopefulhusband. It's wrong to compare our spouse to others whether or not it's sexual in nature.

I feel for you. It never fails to amaze me how women shoot themselves in the foot over small things. They should try being single for several decades. I guess it's just a failure to appreciate what you have.

I think it's great that you are able to keep it in perspective. Perhaps one day she will come to her senses.

Thanks, Summer (and all the commenters).

I want to be clear: I'm not interested in leaving my wife over this. It's her "problem" not mine. The good far outweighs the bad.

The point I am trying to raise is this:

Many TBM women rant and rave about their husband's porn problems (overlooking their good qualities). Is this "problem" different from a TBM spouse who objectifies righteousness?

How would a TBM wife feel if she heard that I interrogated my wife about the fact she looked at a righteous leader with a smile on her face (is she ogling him?).

The heart-broken wife mentioned that she had considered putting controls on her computer to monitor/control him. Would it be acceptable for me to monitor/control my wife's church attendance or what Ensign articles she reads online ("what, hon? you're reading Ucktdorf again?").

How many men have been reported for porn problems by TBM spouses? How many TBM women have been reporting for righteous-leader worshipping problems?

Thanks for all the comments!!!

It's a very difficult situation when your reality based efforts have to compete with what ever fantasy that some one else can concoct.

After you fall asleep, does she look and you and sigh? Does she think about that RM who chatted her up at the Y, but when he found out she was 'taken', never spoke to her again, and now he's the youngest SP in AZ? Does she fantasize about being the woman behind the man on The Stand? Or about being The Bishop's Wife and having the young brides come to her for counseling?

Yeah, mormons have their own set of fairy tales...

"Marry in haste, repent at leisure." This should be the motto of BYU.

+1

On the previous thread, I wrote that I would like to hear the husband's version. The same goes here.

That said, however, it seems that you don't obsess about the situation for years on end, while the woman in the previous thread does obsess about her unrealistic expectations.

She is part of a community, and wants you to be part.
On the other hand, the TBM's grandkids thought my grandmother need to be TBM, even though she was better than any of the kids children as the Words of wisdom.

Couples can have some separate interests. But perhaps there may be some common ground. You might find another 'spiritual' community with the side goal of helping lead her way out. Something like the friends, or UU, or volunteering time at the non-mormon charity like a food bank.

If TBM's criticize these charities that you, as a couple, are volunteering at, then hopefully she will see the hypocritical side of the church. Jesus helped all, not just he believers. Actions by doing, not just talking about it.

I'd say it is similar to the poster in the other thread.

Mormonism paints a false ideal for men and for women. Life is better if spouses can be real and honest. Mormon marriages can reflect the Mormon idea of perfection which isn't perfection at all and is never obtainable.

Leaving Mormonism was so freeing to be because I no longer had to pretend to be someone else.

I think the situation that you are in is pretty common place in the church. "Hero Worship" for want of a better term is actively, although usually with subtlety encouraged.

Women with "less active" and/or "less valiant" husbands seem to fall into an unhealthy co-dependent relationship with the organization, personified by whomever they happen to be most enamored with at the time.

It's almost like Roman Catholic Nuns clinging to their faith as "Brides of Christ" or something...

Doesn't seem healthy. The guys in this situation still have all the responsibilities, stress, etc and none of the kudos.

hopefulhusband:

I forgot to add that I just wanted to say that you sound like a stand up guy, and I empathize with the frustration I am sure you
are subjected to in your personal life.

Of all the things I have not gotten beyond, I have gotten beyond this one. It angers me that DW sometimes objectifies men like Eyring et al. as spiritual leaders. I'm quick to point out that this, of all things, does not arouse my jealousy or feelings of inferiority. If I want to feel inferior, there are a host of other things to drive this. But not Mormon leaders. I identify them as sniveling and dishonest twits and am never afraid to say it. If my wife admires them more, she's deluded and weak.

I am very content NOT to be like them, or like the bishop, his counselors, or the stake president. Our stake president, for example, is a wealthy physician, admired by all the women. But we are privy to how he and his family live at home. In real life, they are dirty and disgusting, their home a vile and unsanitary nightmare. Although I make less and am less handsome, am I not better for my cleanliness skills and can-do attitude at home? I certainly think so. Do Eyring or Uukdork clean their own toilets, scrub their own shower stalls? I doubt it. I do. Am I not better? Yes.

Maybe hopefulhusband should put up some pictures on the wall of women he admires like Rosa Parks, Virginia Apgar, Dorothy Hodgkin who developed protein crystallography,if you like literature maybe Marilynne Robinson, or Virginia Wolf, then talk about how driven and independent they are, how determined to make a difference in the world.

^THIS^

Love this idea... For every "hero" she has on the wall that makes you feel inferior, you get to put your own "heroine"... Whether she's inspiring, smart or just damn sexy.

Awesome!

This is a great idea, but you forgot one.


Princes Leia :)

+100

I would put the female pics above her men pics!

hopefulhusband Wrote:
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> Any thoughts?

Does she fantasize about having sex with any of them?

She's never shared that with me. She has shared that she wishes she was married to a righteous church leader.

So....sex, I don't know. She does fantasize about being married to one.

If a TBM agrees she can monitor my computer or bring up things that happened 9 years ago (per the other OP about her husband) would that same person have a problem if I monitored her Ensign reading, church attendance? Could I guilt her or interrogate her (like the other OP did)?

It's an interesting question to me.

Are "righteous fantasies" ok and carnal ones wrong?

Isn't the problem envy/lusting after what you don't have? (whether it's a TBM wanting to be married to a wealthy doctor SP or the husband ogling a cute cheerleader)?

I don't think it's different. People can be addicted to drama or romantic gestures as much as they can be addicted to visual stimuli.

If she's a healthy libido? Definitively, yes.

You do sound like a great guy and I think you have a very valid point. My mother always wanted a more active mormon man and my parents argued endlessly, but I know she never wanted anyone else nor did she worship mormon leaders.

I think it would be interesting if these women could live with one of these righteous men for a while!!!! See what they are really like in daily life.

I can honestly say that my gay ex is a better man than these mormon guys and I would have stayed with him forever.

You have to learn in life what really matters.

These women who give up a good man for such superficial reasons just really blows my mind. They have NO CLUE what there is out there.

10 yrs. after the dust has settled and we are on the same page, happy. I realize now she had an affair on me with the church. It can be overcome but it is rough.

What a great question - definitely thought-provoking! Love reading something like this that makes me rethink things from a different angle. Fascinating stuff - I hadn't thought about it this way.

Whether in jest, or not, we often state that in the temple the couple is marrying the church. So as long as both are TBM, the third member of their marriage doesn't become a bone of contention. But then one of them 'divorces' the church and the TBM spouse now has his/her loyalties strained. In the mind of the TBM, only the church can get him/her to heaven and the apostate is now an impediment.

There is a limit to 'for better or for worse' when you marry in the temple...

Maybe this is how Joseph Smith managed to seduce so many married women!

^^ This.

It makes sense.

Hopefulhusband, I would really love to have a heart to heart with your wife. You sound a lot like my husband; loving, sensitive, kind, hardworking, and desiring to give all that you have and are to her and your children. I would like to share with her my story of life with my husband, and how I have come to think of him as the most perfect man I know.

She should have pictures of YOU on her walls... pictures of YOU as her boyfriend, crazy in love. Pictures of YOU as her groom giving her your heart, the protection of your body, and the whole of your life! Pictures of YOU holding each newborn baby with the joy of fatherhood twinkling in your eyes! Pictures of YOU working around your farm providing for her every need and every comfort! Pictures of YOU, together, with HER, maturing in your depth of love for each other!

Yes, I would like have a heart to heart with your wife....

I love the picture idea! Thanks for giving me a great decorating idea!