Even being in prison isn't stopping him from destroying families.

https://www.fox13now.com/news/local-news/girl-kidnapped-after-warren-jeffs-revelation-found-safe-in-north-dakota

" A 10-year-old girl whom authorities said had been kidnapped following a "revelation" from imprisoned polygamist leader Warren Jeffs has been found safe in North Dakota,"


Dowayne Barlow said he had been forbidden from seeing his daughter after he left the Fundamentalist LDS Church. His former wife had primary custody of the girl and had left her in the care of her brother, Heber Jeffs (who is also a nephew of FLDS leader Warren Jeffs). Court documents said that when she told Jeffs she was taking her daughter, Heber Jeffs told her "he was cutting her off, and that she would 'not be allowed access to her child unless she was going to get back in the Church (FLDS) by writing to Helaman Jeffs or Warren Jeffs.'"

"Their disappearance follows a "revelation" in August by Warren Jeffs from his Texas prison cell, where he's serving a life sentence for child sexual assault related to underage "marriages." FOX 13 News reported in August that Jeffs was re-asserting control over the Utah-based FLDS Church, calling some people back into the faith and splitting families up. Over the years, Jeffs has cast out people from the church, separating men from their wives and children, and issued rigid edicts dictating faithful members' daily lives.

"Through Warren Jeffs’ revelation he commanded or ordered that the FLDS female members should quit their current employment or activities and ‘gather’ (essentially ‘shelter in place’) and prepare to move to a location or locations (unknown to your Affiant) as directed by Warren Jeffs and/or Helaman Jeffs," prosecutors wrote in the court documents."

And people continue to follow this whack-a-doodle like mindless sheep. It goes to show you that even if they leave the FLDS cult, the long arms of the cult leaders can still reach them to do damage through their families and associates.

I always felt that the COJCoLDS never did enough to put a stop to this nonsense when large numbers of FLDS were in southern Utah. They started the underage polygamy; they need to take responsibility for helping to clean up the mess they created.

summer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> And people continue to follow this whack-a-doodle
> like mindless sheep. It goes to show you that even
> if they leave the FLDS cult, the long arms of the
> cult leaders can still reach them to do damage
> through their families and associates.
>
> I always felt that the COJCoLDS never did enough
> to put a stop to this nonsense when large numbers
> of FLDS were in southern Utah. They started the
> underage polygamy; they need to take
> responsibility for helping to clean up the mess
> they created.

^^^^^

While I concur it is largely their fault, what could they do, since anybody in a breakway group has long rejected their authority.

What could they do? For starters they could get a reg revelation to undo all that Smith did in secret. They could place blame on Brigham Young for legitimizing Smith's faux marriages and about that Smith did wrong by those people and clarify that polygamy was never a principle. What city is they do...

None of that would mean anything to people that already reject the big church as having fallen into apostasy.

Summer wrote in part:

"I always felt that the COJCoLDS never did enough to put a stop to this nonsense when large numbers of FLDS were in southern Utah. They started the underage polygamy; they need to take responsibility for helping to clean up the mess they created."

It might be wise to read the following article from Slate (published in 2008) about the Short Creek raid and its aftermath in both Arizona and Utah.

https://slate.com/human-interest/2008/04/the-legacy-of-an-infamous-1953-raid-on-a-polygamous-enclave.html

(I attempted to post part of this article's texst, but it contained a word(s) [I don't know which one(s)] that are banned for use on this Board; nevertheless, it is very helpful in knowing why the LDS church is slow to condemn Warren Jeffs this time around).

blindguy: I read through the whole article to see if I could figure out the offending word for you but I don't know which one it could be.

You could perhaps ask Admin if you really wanted to post your excerpt.

Meanwhile, it's a good outline of the issues.

As always, it's mystifying and irritating (understatement) that governments can't seem to figure out how to put a stop to Jeffs et al and the abusive ways they inflict on women and children, including males.

There's a polygamous Mormon sect here in British Columbia and the best you can say about those leaders is that they're not as bad as Jeffs, which is a very low bar indeed.

A few years ago I had overlooked renewing my car insurance, which was out of date by three days. I had the papers on my passenger seat (to theoretically remind myself and still I forgot to do it) when I was stopped by a police officer and handed a $600.00 ticket. I was across the street from my insurance agent at the time. Bad timing all 'round. The cop was regretful about having to give me a ticket and even offered to go to court with me if I wanted to contest the ticket. I couldn't do that as obviously I was guilty so how could I plead not guilty to try and get out of the fine, was my thinking, so I paid up but yow, it hurt.

I know it's terrible to drive without insurance but it was an oversight and would have been rectified quickly, as soon as I noticed my papers still sitting there reminding me to renew. But the $600.00 fine seemed enormous. The cop told me it's the highest fine you can get for a traffic offence.

My point is that regular folks have to abide by laws and when they don't they get dinged and sometimes it really hurts.

I cannot explain how even with abundant publicity about the plyg compounds the government doesn't deal with them decisively or at least try harder to protect the women and children and the young boys before they're of age to continue on the polygamous path.

Even with piles of evidence and guaranteed witnesses any charges against the plyg leaders in B.C. have never gone anywhere to date. It's like society values privacy and autonomy, or something, far above the rights and safety of children.

Anyway, thanks for the article. It's a good summary of the history and facts of the issues.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/14/2023 01:51PM by Nightingale.

A really sad note to append to your post, Nightie...

Your coverage was three days past its noted expiration date, but you were NOT without coverage... Per my experience, this quote from Google is accurate: "most car insurance companies have a grace period for late payments.  Car insurance grace periods can be up to 30 days..."

You should have gone to court.

Thanks for the thought EOD. But there is no grace period in B.C. The insurance is via the government (Insurance Corporation of British Columbia, a Crown corporation) and insurance is mandated, via them.

My sticking point was that if I wanted to show up in court I would have had to plead "not guilty" but I obviously *was* guilty, even if just of an oversight (and compounded by the fact that I'd had a highly distressful incident over Christmas so wasn't thinking straight at the time).

The officer's issue, and rightly so, was that if I'd been in an accident, without insurance, it could potentially have been financially devastating for both parties, myself and anybody I may have injured, not to mention totalling both vehicles.

So, yeah, I thought about contesting the ticket but couldn't get over that sticking point that my only defence was to plead not guilty and obviously I *was* guilty.

I learned something new at the time too. We have little stickies on our licence plate to indicate that our insurance is valid up to whatever date. The police cars now have some scanning device, the cop explained, so that if an uninsured car is nearby the scanner beeps and the police officer pounces.

It's such a cliché - I was at a McDonald's drive-thru getting breakfast and he was parked in their lot behind me, eating his McDonald's I assumed, when he got the beep about my tag. He pulled up beside me and ordered me to drive across the street so we didn't hold other people up while he wrote me a ticket. He told me THREE TIMES to make sure I didn't drive off (as if I would ever even think of such a thing but of course he didn't know me). He pulled out fast and crossed the street before I had even finished paying for my egg McMuffin and then he sat there watching me as I pulled out and crossed over too. That just made me more nervous, like I was rushing and upset and maybe I was going to cause an accident or break another traffic rule right in front of him. Fortunately, traffic was light and I got over to the assigned meeting spot without screwing up anything else.

I think he had already started the ticketing process and then we talked for a while. I said I had had a bad Christmas and the insurance renewal had just slipped my mind. He got less officious and more friendly and we had a nice chat. It seemed that he was sorry in the end because he could tell I wasn't a master criminal and it was an honest oversight and also I told him the $600.00 fine was really going to hurt. But I think at that point he couldn't retract the ticket he had produced so in the end we parted on friendly terms and both went back to our now-cold breakfasts. That was the final insult!

Anyway, that is my very long story about a basically insignificant event.

Sorry for derailing this important thread. Weird how seemingly totally unrelated subjects, or incidental comments, can evoke a memory.

NG:
First, I did send an email to the site administrator. We'll see if I hear a response.

Second, one other thought has crossed my mind on this subject. If the parties involved had red, black, brown, or yellow skin, public sympathy for these people in the U.S. would be a lot less.

Blindguy, a corollary to your
second point: The color of one's
skin determines one's belief in
the following statement:


"The law is colorblind."

Blindguy reminds me of that old literary device: the blind prophet, he who can see what the seeing cannot.

It's an old Greek motif. You'll notice that Homer is often portrayed as blind, meaning that he can see the logic of the night, the reason beyond normal human perception. Shakespeare used a variant of the metaphor: the fool whose ramblings turn out, in the fullness of time, to explain the entire play. Thus there is a parallel between blindguy and our endlessly loquacious but sometimes insightful Jesus.

All of which is a convoluted and needlessly pretentious way of saying that blindguy sometimes sees and expresses things with crystal clarity. There is no question that in many Western countries authority looks, and functions, very differently depending on one's skin color.

I enjoyed the way you expressed that, LW. Clever.

I agree re blindguy too.


Lot's Wife Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> There is no question that in many Western
> countries authority looks, and functions, very
> differently depending on one's skin color.

I have never thought of this in relation to the polygamy issue. I have struggled for ages to figure out why Winston Blackmore et al here in B.C. were never convicted for polygamy and other obvious offences and, indeed, why the investigation was closed despite overwhelming concrete visible evidence of illegal activity at Bountiful.

It's appalling to think it could be because they are White men. I would, obviously, hope not.

I hate to admit you could be right though, even here in Canada, where many of us default to the myth that we're not racist.

I think it's not as pervasive and obvious or as widespread as in other countries but that actually intensifies the urgency of the issue. We have to bring it out into the light and call it what it is.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/14/2023 02:56PM by Nightingale.

I was addressing your experience with the traffic cop more than interactions involving polygs. Most dark people fear traffic stops deeply and viscerally; they worry with considerable reason that they will be treated unfairly or, in the United States, killed. I daresay your experience with the officer would probably not have occurred if you were an African American or Latino American in the United States.

Stepping back a bit, there are multiple forms of racism. Yes, one is the overt and aggressive sort that we all, or most of us, condemn. But there is also a subtle and invidious form that is in some senses close to universal, meaning the natural tendency of people to feel more comfortable with those who look like them.

I'm reminded of an experience some years ago when an old Ghanaian friend visited my family. My daughter was at the time nearly two years old. As the visit ended, I said, names changed, "Okay Samantha, give Kwaku his goodbye kiss so he can go." My daughter then crawled up on his lap and planted a sloppy kiss on his cheek. Kwaku started to cry. I looked quizzically at him and he explained, "white children don't kiss black men."

Is the anxiety of little children when interacting with people of different races racism? Not overtly, not intentionally, not even consciously. So let's call it benign racism, born not of malice but of inevitably limited contact.

In my experience white Canadians, like white Scandinavians, embody very little malicious racism. But is it possible for anyone fully to avoid the benign racism of intuitive comfort? I don't think it is. It may in that sense be that your interaction with the officer was facilitated by skin color in a way that would not have happened if you were, say, from Afghanistan or Pakistan.

But the world would be a much better place if we all were as open-minded and open-hearted as many Canadian white people, with their naively benign racism, are. That would get us 70% of the way towards a truly race-blind and fair society.

Lot's Wife Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I was addressing your experience with the traffic
> cop more than interactions involving polygs.

Oh. {{slaps self}} That zoomed totally over my head. I was thinking you meant if Jeffs, Blackmore et al were not White men the police would swarm in and shut them down tout de suite (right away).


> Most dark people fear traffic stops deeply and
> viscerally; they worry with considerable reason
> that they will be treated unfairly or, in the
> United States, killed. I daresay your experience
> with the officer would probably not have occurred
> if you were an African American or Latino American
> in the United States.

You mean he wouldn't have taken pity on me or offered to help me after the fact. I never thought of that. Yes, you could well be right. Perhaps more so in your country but I can't swear to that.

Even in Canada, though, I was definitely surprised that he actually offered to come to court for me! I mean, it was in his power to choose just a warning and no ticket so after his offer I was wishing that's the way he had gone. But I think he had already started the ticket, perhaps electronically, and then we talked afterwards and that's when he reconsidered but couldn't retract the ticket. That was my impression anyway.


> I'm reminded of an experience some years ago when
> an old Ghanaian friend visited my family. My
> daughter was at the time nearly two years old. As
> the visit ended, I said, names changed, "Okay
> Samantha, give Kwaku his goodbye kiss so he can
> go." My daughter then crawled up on his lap and
> planted a sloppy kiss on his cheek. Kwaku started
> to cry. I looked quizzically at him and he
> explained, "white children don't kiss black men."

Oh, so sad. And yes, completely outside our own experiences.


> In my experience white Canadians, like white
> Scandinavians, embody very little malicious
> racism. But is it possible for anyone fully to
> avoid the benign racism of intuitive comfort? I
> don't think it is. It may in that sense be that
> your interaction with the officer was facilitated
> by skin color in a way that would not have
> happened if you were, say, from Afghanistan or
> Pakistan.

I agree with your points.

And racism is racism, no matter the degree of malice, of course.

Benign, unconscious, mild. Whatever.


> But the world would be a much better place if we
> all were as open-minded and open-hearted as many
> Canadian white people, with their naively benign
> racism, are. That would get us 70% of the way
> towards a truly race-blind and fair society.


And naive even.

We can as a society, and in many cases do, feel some kind of superiority on this issue when it comes to comparison with our southern neighbour and all the upheaval there related to racism.

But. Then we have to examine our society and history when it comes to the Indigenous Peoples of Canada who are still dealing with the toxic double legacy of colonialism and racism.

I heard an Indigenous woman on a radio interview the other day and she was asked why the supremely negative effects persist. She responded by saying that "historic injustices have kept people wounded generation after generation".

That is a most important point that is often overlooked, misunderstood or even dismissed. I've only fairly recently understood the meaning and scope of that angle myself. The original attitudes, beliefs and acts that inflicted historic wrongs killed and wounded people, took their possessions and drastically changed their ways of life but it didn't end there. The attitudes in the dominant society become entrenched for one thing and continue on into subsequent generations. So too does the damage to the direct victims who become parents and pass on the trauma in various ways to their children, and so on down through the life cycles.

That is the way I understand it from some Métis women I know.

There is no doubt that lifelong learning is a necessity if one wishes to grow and learn.

We can celebrate graduating from high school and college/university but that is just the beginning of the journey.

The wack a doodle has spent his whole life emulating JS. So not only do the Fdls follow a wack a doodle the lds wack a doodles do too!

This was a front page story in the Minot Daily News, where the extradition hearing took place. I bet there's a lot of head scratching going on there about W T F is it with Utah?

Meanwhile the FLDS be like "y'all think that the mainstream LDS are brainwashed beyond all reason? I'll show you brainwashed. Hold my root beer."

If this were a movie screenplay, it'd be sent back to re-write because it is too weird to be believable. How could someone be that brainwashed and still be able to function in normal society.

Though I do suppose that Dowayne Barlow is not functioning all that well in normal society at the moment.

And "Dowayne"? Because what, "Dewayne" is not odd enough?

Warren Jeffs is the Energizer Bunny of Sexual & Religious abuse



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/14/2023 02:03PM by GNPE.

GNPE Wrote:
----------------------

> Warren Jeffs is the
> Energizer Bunny of
> Sexual & Religious
> abuse


He's even better than the Energizer Bunny, because where the Bunny keeps on going, Jeffs keeps on going and coming...

TYVM for quoting my post, eod; your check is in the mail...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/14/2023 02:25PM by GNPE.