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Posted by: knotheadusc ( )
Date: October 19, 2010 03:39PM

I'm a nevermo, so the concept of "pridefulness" is kind of foreign to me. To me, being full of pride was to be proud, not prideful. In any case, my husband's very alienated TBM daughter hasn't spoken to him since 2004. In 2006, she sent him a hateful letter demanding that he give her up for adoption to her mother's third husband because apparently she thinks my husband (her bio dad) is "prideful".

So, I guess I'm just wondering what that's supposed to mean. Because my husband is one of the most modest, down-to-earth people I've ever known. What does it mean to be prideful if you're a Mormon?

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Posted by: 3X ( )
Date: October 19, 2010 03:52PM

Two differing orientations:

1. The prideful mormon orientation: "Our church is true, yours is not. Our prophets are true, yours are not. We are the only authentic religion on the planet, blah, blah, blah."

2. The pridefulness mormons accuse others of exhibiting; generally this is a reference to "a prideful intellect" - IE, daring to use even common-sense to dismiss mormonism as bullshit-supreme. *

* Can you believe it, the mormon functionary sent out to "salvage" myself decades ago accused me of this very flaw. He became totally flustered when I told him, "seems to me _you_ are the prideful one."

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Posted by: knotheadusc ( )
Date: October 19, 2010 04:24PM

How does the concept of having a "prideful intellect" fly when the Mormons also say "the glory of God is intelligence"... I probably got that quote wrong, and if I did, I'm sure someone here will set me straight!

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Posted by: 3X ( )
Date: October 19, 2010 05:09PM

knotheadusc Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> How does the concept of having a "prideful
> intellect" fly when the Mormons also say "the
> glory of God is intelligence"... I probably got
> that quote wrong, and if I did, I'm sure someone
> here will set me straight!


Easy: intelligence used to critically inspect mormonism is, by definition, misused.

As mormonism is known to be perfect, critical examination is unnecessary, and is, in fact, an insult to the Creator. *

(blech)

* What could be more insulting than to insist that He/She/It has _anything_ to do with a moronic pseudo-religion?

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Posted by: CA girl ( )
Date: October 19, 2010 04:46PM

equals: If you don't knuckle under and do everything the church tells you to, then it's because you are too full of pride to humble yourself and be instructed of God. Being full of pride, technically, will keep you out of heaven because you think you know better than God. You need to put aside everything you are that is in contrary to what God (i.e. the Mormon Church) tells you to do/be/think and just do as you are told. Then you are considered humble, like a little child, and worthy of heaven.

In Mormonism, pride has nothing to do with concepts like modesty and humility. It's just another way to bully the members and keep them in line.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/19/2010 04:46PM by CA girl.

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Posted by: badseed ( )
Date: October 19, 2010 04:50PM

"In Mormonism, pride has nothing to do with concepts like modesty and humility. It's just another way to bully the members and keep them in line."

CA Girl is right on. It's just a way to dismiss another point of view....if it disagrees with your own.

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Posted by: Stormy ( )
Date: October 22, 2010 12:56AM

Being willfull also is not a nice label given to someone by Mormons...that's what I was told I was..willfull..and I think they were right...oh throw in prideful, stubborn, and unable to understand or want to understand the "True Church"..GUILTY..

STORMY

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Posted by: amos ( )
Date: October 19, 2010 05:08PM

the Legend of Lucifer is that he was a senior and favored "son of the morning", meaning one of the first few spirit offspring of our resurrected father in heaven.
His start down the path to devildom was pride. He was then jealous of Jesus' winning plan and devised a prideful plan of his own, which was voted down. His pride mushroomed into eternal rage and he vowed to fight the father and the son to the end. He recruited a third of the rest of the father's offspring to join him as devil's angels, and they were forever banished. But they were given a job on earth first, to tempt and torment man, which service they dutifully perform without pay.
The cliche "pride precedes the fall" in Mormonism means the devil, since Mormons have the unique doctrine that the devil started out good then went bad.
For a mormon to say you're prideful is a major slam, tantamount to calling you evil.

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Posted by: knotheadusc ( )
Date: October 19, 2010 05:38PM

Given the mean-spirited and disrespectful tone of the rest of my husband's then 12 year old daughter's letter, I guess slamming him by calling him "prideful" was right in line.

Personally, I think she ought to start using a dictionary and a mirror.

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Posted by: The exmo formerly known as Br. Vreeland ( )
Date: October 20, 2010 06:10AM

I told him of my doubts about Mormonism specifically and Christianity in general. I also told him of some early research I'd done into Buddhism. He warned me I was descending into "pridefullness" and that it was a dangerous game. One that will only lead to a result similar to the one earned by Lucifer. He said my time would be better spent listening to my elders and praying for forgiveness for thinking I knew better than the prophet.

Of course I didn't say I knew better. Rather, I was expressing my doubts in the only way I knew how. I took them to someone I thought would be able to give me a straight answer. As I rode my bike home he called my father, they were getting ready to ex him at the time, and told him what I had said. Nice fella that Bishop O.

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Posted by: MJ ( )
Date: October 19, 2010 05:25PM

http://lds.org/ldsorg/v/index.jsp?vgnextoid=2354fccf2b7db010VgnVCM1000004d82620aRCRD&locale=0&sourceId=d8ff27cd3f37b010VgnVCM1000004d82620a____

Slip this one past the next time someone says they are proud to be a Mormon!

Honestly, I think you are trying to split hairs. The way I understand the terms "prideful" and "pridefulness" is being full of pride, with "pridefulness" eluding to behaving in a "prideful" way.

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Posted by: thieves ( )
Date: October 20, 2010 05:59AM

the PROUD have no pride, rather they boastfully preside, reside
while the prideful have peace with themselves and don't hide
the truth of their devotion, their willingness to provide
a world of integrity where accountability is high
the PROUD do boast and look down with heavy eyes
opposed to acknowledging all those who hold them high
their world is temporary, transitory, filled with compromise
while the prideful take comfort in a job well done with a sigh
they don't seek the glory and aren't looking for a fight
the prideful let the wind brush across their face, why?
a greater purpose resides in them and they can't and won't deny
the PROUD mirror a world of their own without any compromise
preying on the weak, reeling in their take, weak minded
all credit to them while those who suffer are marginalized
while the prideful lift up the weak with hope in their minds
to carry themselves and this world a higher plane, blue sky

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Posted by: thieves ( )
Date: October 20, 2010 06:24AM

Or is it the other way around?

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Posted by: snowball ( )
Date: October 21, 2010 10:55PM

For Mormons prideful people don't follow the prophet. You can behave like the most arrogrant SOB in the world if you are doing the bidding of the Lard's annointed however.

When a Mormon says a person is proud, it probably just means they have their own ideas about things. Thinking = Pride.

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Posted by: Troy ( )
Date: October 21, 2010 11:10PM

That's why I'm such a despicable evildoer!;)

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Posted by: JoD3:360 ( )
Date: October 21, 2010 11:50PM

These are described as that condition where people are so sure of themselves that they refuse to look when the truth is pointed out to them. The continue to go in their old accustomed ways, refusing to acknowledge anything that runs contrary to their point of view. Refusing to admit when they are wrong.

Sounds an awful lot like those who browbeat us for telling them about the truth behind mormonism, don'tcha think?

Are they so afflicted with pridefulness that they would rather stumble about in darkness that to wonder why their prophet would marry 14yearold girls, or teach blood atonement, or say I don't know that we teach that, or have a prophets word changed because of public displeasure?

And what about those of us who know these things- are we unable to leave because of pride? Are we afraid that people will disrespect us? I know I was. The fear of how I would be perceived was very very powerful.

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Posted by: Tiff ( )
Date: October 22, 2010 12:00AM

That Mormons view true happiness and confidence as pridefulness.

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Posted by: imaworkinonit ( )
Date: October 22, 2010 01:32AM

She was hurling an insult to make him feel like an unfit father so he'd sign over his parental rights.

Your husband's daughter could have said any number of other untrue things. That was probably just what came to mind (and I always wonder in the case of alienated kids, if the custodial parent has been bad-mouthing the ex . . . afterall, WHAT KID goes around accusing people of being "proud")?

I remember a sibling of mine saying her kids would accuse her of being a bad mom they weren't getting their way. She'd just sarcastically patronize them and say something "maybe I am, but you still can't go . . . . "

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Posted by: knotheadusc ( )
Date: October 22, 2010 10:15AM

Oh yeah, there's no doubt whatsoever that the ex badmouths my husband. She badmouthed her first husband to her oldest son, too. At 19, he was going around bragging about how he'd "decided" to shut his bio dad out of his life at the age of 6.

It was pretty clear that my husband's daughters had no idea what adoption really meant legally. I think they thought it just meant they'd all have the same last name. The older daughter, who was 15 when this happened, said if my husband didn't sign those adoption papers, she'd never speak to him again... Never mind the fact that if he had signed them, they would no longer legally be family and there would be no reason for her to speak to him. I doubt they could be friends after something like that.

Anyway, I did always wonder why Mormons refer to being "prideful" instead of being "proud". I guess the explanations here make some sense. What it all comes down to is being scorned for not sticking with the program and having a mind of one's own.

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