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Posted by: tombs1 ( )
Date: October 20, 2010 12:47PM

This is a topic that has been posted on here many times, but I want to give my explanation for why none have come forward, that it is all a bunch of Horse shit (at least in modern times).
The First Presidency and Quarom of the twelve are all suposed to have a perfect knowledge and suposidly speak face to face with god himself.
I am sure at least one of them has a hard time believing in Mormonism, or does not believe in it at all, but for one reason or another keeps it to themselfes.
Lets say that there are two factions among those fifteen, the faithful and those in the closet.
The faithful, are those who really believe or just continue to keep buying into all of the madness of mormonism out of blind faith like many people do all their lives.
The faithful are probably divided further into two factions. Those who really are just trying to have faith and believe that they are doing good, and those who all the power, prestige, and perks go to their heads.
Now The Doubters: There are a lot of reasons why the doubters (of whom their is probably at least one among the fifteen)stay quit. But I am sure this is probably the main one. If one of those men came forward, and went on TV saying that The Church is all a lie, it would probably just uterly destroy hundreds of thousands of people. I have no doubt that it would lead to a lot of suicides, and also you have to take into account the hundreds of thousands of people who make a living working for the church (CES employees, Desert Book Store, ETC). They would all probably lose their jobs and their lives would be ruined.
That is the main reason why I think no one in the first presidency or the twelve has done what a lot of peole wish/hope they would, and why it might not be as easy as one would think. I know that if I were that one "Closet Doubter" in that position, I "MIGHT" be hesitant to come forward publicly.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/20/2010 12:48PM by tombs1.

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Posted by: Duder ( )
Date: October 20, 2010 01:33PM

I swear Neal A. Maxwell said something close to a confession in a conferece talk about 15 years ago. I'm paraphrasing from memory, but he said something along these lines:

"I understand many members of the church believe that apostles have regular interaction with the savior. I know for a fact that He lives and He loves us and guides this church even though I personally have never seen Jesus or spoken face-to-face with Jesus. My knowledge of Him today is every bit as sure and sound as it will be when I do see Him and speak with Him face to face."

So, Maxwell was trying to suggest that apostles still operate to some degree on faith - like they ask the membership to do. At the same time, though, Maxwell seemed to acknowledge that a big reason why the membership exercises faith is because the apostles perpetuate the myth that Jesus is literally directing the leadership of the church.

They know that they are not any more "inspired" than the local ward chorister, but they happily claim to be inspired, and let the followers believe in myths, half-truths, and absolute lies.

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Posted by: Makurosu ( )
Date: October 25, 2010 10:43AM

He spoke at the BYU Marriott Center once around 1993-95 and told a full house that he is one of Jesus's "special witnesses" and that as such he does not have faith. He has knowledge that the Church's claims are true and that if anyone in the audience lacks a testimony they could rely on his until they get their own. Then he stood at the podium and looked around the audience to let that sink in. I was sitting in the audience, and it had quite an effect. This was about the same time he said all that crap in private to Steve Benson about having warm feelings and a copy of one of the pages of the Book of Mormon manuscript and that being how he knows the Church is true. The guy was a lying rat just like the rest of them.

I think these guys stay in so that they don't ruin their families' lives. I don't think they have enough of a conscience to care what would happen to people within Mormon society. If they were beholden to any money they get from the Church, they could just write tell-all to be released after they die. I think they have large families and dozens of grandchildren and great grandchildren, and they know all their lives would be ruined if they ever repudiated the Mormon church.

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Posted by: Res Ipsa Loquitur ( )
Date: October 20, 2010 01:49PM

If an apostle ever did come forward, he would be subjecting himself and his family to relentless and merciless character assassination. TSCC authorities have no scruples against destroying the reputation of the man or woman who speaks honestly. They would call him a sinner, an apostate, mentally ill, whatever. They would say that everything he previously said was true, and that Satan had recently got hold of his heart to make him change his mind. The spin would go on and on, and frankly I doubt that many TBM's would lose any sleep over it. Some would feel anger toward the apostle, some pity, but very few would question because the rest of the authorities tell them not to and spoon feed them an easy explanation. TBM authorities are experts at spin and damage control as it relates to contrary evidence, and this would be no different. I think only the Profit could have the kind of effect tombs1 describes because LDS theology clearly indicates that the Profit could never lead the church astray--that Gawd would remove the Profit from office before he could do so. Thus, if a Profit said it was malarkey, then many people (though probably not all) would listen.

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Posted by: steve benson ( )
Date: October 25, 2010 08:08AM

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Posted by: maria ( )
Date: October 20, 2010 02:02PM

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Posted by: elee ( )
Date: October 20, 2010 02:22PM

Personally, I think weak links and doubters are weeded out well before being promoted to that level of leadership.

What they really believe, I have no idea. But make no mistake: The Big 15 are all Party Aparatchiks.

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Posted by: another guy ( )
Date: October 25, 2010 09:35AM

I've sometimes wondered what would happen if there was a document found - that was shown to be legitimate in every way - in which Joseph Smith wrote that it was all a fraud, a joke, and that he was very sorry. I see now that it wouldn't matter - those who have faith (or who want others to think they have faith) will continue to believe and act as if it's all true. In fact, the proof has been found - and documented - that JS was a fraud (specifically - but not limited to - the 'translation' of the Book of Abraham), and they continue to believe and act as if they had faith.

Even if the current Prophet got up in General Conference and made the announcement and 'testified' that the church was a sham, and admitted that Joseph Smith was a con man who sought fame, self-glory, and sexual favors, it wouldn't make much difference to the 'faithful'. His talk would be expunged the next day and changed so that it would be appropriately 'correlated' to the current message and standards, and the faithful would slowly 'forget' what was said, and go on with their programmed lives....

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Posted by: ExMormonRon ( )
Date: October 25, 2010 10:27AM

Since when do folks bite the hands that feed?

Just wonderin'...


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Posted by: downsouth ( )
Date: October 25, 2010 10:37AM

As has been mentioned on the board before: The Oklahoma City, OK temple president. That's pretty high up if you ask me. Why has he not been more vocal?
People never want to be told they have been lied to. There is a certain characteristic (gene if you will), that allows us to step back and look at a situation from an 'outside' point of view.

There was a time of anger when I left but I now my good friend and get together often without church coming up. When it does, it's more of a joke of "I'm right, you're wrong". I don't take offense and neither does he.

Would I like to see the system fail? - YES. Am I out to destroy it? - No. Do I take shots when they are offered? - you betcha.

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