My Wife was converted to Mormonism in college. I love my Wife very much. I am not a Mormon. I am a non-Christian. We have been married for almost 20 years.

I am seeking advice on how to get her out of the Mormon church without turning her against me. To me, Mormonism is a ridiculous cult, but I married my Wife because I love her. I have stayed married to her because of my love for her. Should I consider leaving "well enough alone", keeping my mouth shut (for the most part) as I have for almost 20 years?

Some members of her ward shun her for being married to a non-Mormon. I know, for a fact, she is picked on at church at times as well as looked down upon due to not being married to a Mormon. Some of them actually seem to like me, and accept me to some extent even though I refuse to convert to Mormonism. Some of them do seem to accept her (my Wife) do come to visit her, and are genuinely helpful at times if we need help in accomplishing something which requires additional help.

In the end, I know it's "my decision" on what I do, or do not do about this. However, in my honest opinion it's always a good idea to seek potentially sound advice from people who have "been there, done that".

Which is why I am posting here.

Thanking you all in advance,
Cecil.

See this thread:

http://exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,1796720

Excellent advice^^^^^^ best wishes from the Boner.

I agree with this. SusieQ gives excellent advice for making it work with a believing spouse.

To the OP: If your marriage has already worked for 20 years, why disturb things? The only thing I would do is to be supportive if you know that people at church are making unkind comments to her. Let her know that she deserves better than that.

She has to find her own way out, as I'm sure you know.

A few things that could facilitate it is if you take an active interest in the Mormon church. Tell her she has been a member for so long and since it is an important part of her life to her, you would like to understand it better.

You do this. You read the CES letter and the Mormon Church's own essays that attempt to downplay the ugly church history by sort of admitting to it all.

Because you have never been Mormon, it would be easy to ask your wife to explain them to you--she being the expert and all as a long time Mormon. She may instantly try to bring the missionaries over to explain. Tell her this is only for you and her, that you just need a few clarifications as you read.

The CES letter and the essays are loaded guns waiting to go off. You will see when you read them, or have you?

She may actually get to know why the church is a cult this way. She will be confronted with the facts coming from her own church sources. You will only be looking for explanations. You will have no visible agenda.

Then when she knows the truth, don't be surprised if she still wants to be Mormon. But now she will know, and she will remember what she learned and it will always be there like termites that you don't realize are eating away at things until it's too late.

Don't know if this will be helpful or is sound advice, but good luck and all the best to you.

show her the joseph smith papers and the article about the stone in the hat, complete with pictures. Tell her it is new information from the church leadership you thought she might be interested in. That should be enough to begin with. It will make her think - not talk yet - but think. Never diss her faith, she will put up the barriers she has been programmed to do, keep it minimal and her 'shelf' will do it's own creaking and cracking.

IMHO, you need to love your wife for who she is. Campaigns to change a spouse are generally disrespectful and damaging to the relationship. This is the prime message. If she won't engage with you on the topics, just let it go and enjoy your wife who also enjoys you.


I think you're better served with a campaign of self education, which will provide context and opportunity for discussions. Do not force any discussion on her. It's all the better if you let her bring topics up and go only as far as she is interested in going.

Without knowing you or your wife, I suggest starting with books like:

Rough Stone Rolling by Richard Bushman. This is considered a decent historical account of Joseph Smith from a believing perspective. In other words, it's not threatening to your wife.

I personally disliked the book's style and attitude, but it's a book that broke many Mormon's shelves and is still considered faith promoting anyway. So it's a good starting point. Even if you don't like it, stick with it as it's a strong basis for the rest of your education. Leave it around so she can see it and choose to look at it herself. Bring it up yourself ONLY once or twice and let her guide how much to talk about it.

Then something from Todd Compton, again a practicing mormon at the time the book was written and for years afterward. In Sacred Loneliness is the usual choice. Same practice as above. Let her see you reading it and give her the opportunity to pick it up on her own. Don't push it.

Work in some general religious content too.

Going Clear, the scientology documentary. Don't draw any parallels for her. Watch it when she's around if she won't watch it with you. Again, just to let ideas grow on their own.

Nova on PBS has run a couple of very good programs.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/ancient/bibles-buried-secrets.html
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/evolution/becoming-human.html This is a quality look at human evolution.

There's a transcript there or you can watch it there. Very damaging to Mormon doctrine. No Moses, No exodus, No conquest of Canaan, the forgery of Deuteronomy, Multiple Isaiahs.

Some other content worth a look along the way.

The History of God by Karen Armstrong. Big, detailed dense book. Lots of interesting bits, but a difficult read.

Much of Bart Ehrman. Misquoting Jesus, Jesus Interrupted, Forged. His later works are not as tight. I still liked How Jesus Became God.

Richard Carrier--While disputed and inflammatory, I still think his Proving History and On the Historicity of Jesus are worth the time. He strongly dismantles the New Testament

Need to get back to work outside, appreciate all the sound advice, and will definitely consider everything you folks have said.

Especially about not antagonizing her, or disrespecting her in anyway which would endanger our marriage. I love her enough to have remained with her almost 20 years. I guess (in the end) simply trying to provide her with alternative written viewpoints will suffice.

All you can do is wait and listen for openings in the conversation. If your wife expresses distaste for what's going on at church or mentions what bothers her about doctrine or church history, step in and keep her talking and thinking on those topics. If she finds polygamy hurtful to women, you can encourage her to read about the subject in more depth.

You don't have to help her in her callings or attend with her, but it usually doesn't work if you openly push or complain about her church. Mormons often take this as personally insulting.

Get her a "Cuddlekins Tapir Stuffed Animal" (cute as fetch) and have a discussion about pre-columbian horses.

http://www.stuffedsafari.com/Cuddlekins-Tapir-Stuffed-Animal-by-Wild-Republic-p/wr-13453.htm

Imagine you are a golf fanatic, but your wife thought it was a silly pointless game and a waste of money. How would you want her to handle it?

I think that the best way to influence anyone is by example. She has been married to you for 20 years and she is still an active Mormon.

My advice?

Leave well alone.

The cult of Mormonism can mean a member gives a huge amount of time and energy to doing what the organization requires, is indoctrinated as to what they will read, watch, and do, and is trained to see and judge the world a certain way.

Only you can decide to what extent your wife is devoted to the church and if her devotion is making it difficult for the two of you to have the kind of life together that you want.

If you do want some things to change in this respect, I personally think that honesty is still the best policy.

In my opinion I think its worth a shot. HOWEVER, don't push it. If she gets really upset and defensive then you need to back down and respect her freedom to believe and practice her religion.

How I would try and get her out is to have her read the Letter to the CES Director:

http://cesletter.com/

The CES Letter was written by a faithful and devout Mormon who came across information he did not have answers to. He wrote to one of the educational directors in the church who did not respond because he had no answers either. Its a great summary of many of the historical, doctrinal and scriptural problems in Mormonism.

http://mormonessays.com/

The Essays are straight from the church. They ADMIT many of these problems but try to come up with excuses. Most Mormon don't know these essays exist but they are right on the church's own website.

Print the CES Letter and the essays. Ask her to read the CES Letter because you would like to know what she thinks and to see if she has answers for the issues raised. If she pushes back and refuses to read it then give her the essays telling her the are DIRECTLY from the church so they are APPROVED CHURCH SOURCES that have "answers" to many of these issues raised.

If she reads some or all of these documents, then you have a very high chance she could lose her belief in the church. However, if she refuses to read them then you are probably out of luck in getting her out. If she refuses to read them, then I suggest leaving them lie around the house until she gets curious enough ON HER OWN to read them.

Mormons are incredibly defensive and insecure about the church. You need to tread very carefully when discussing the church with her. Do NOT argue or pressure her to DEFEND the church. You are not going to be able to talk her out of the church. You CAN provide her evidence that might convince her to leave the church. Its tricky. She needs to research on her own and come to her own conclusions. Be the conduit to the info to research but be careful how you approach it.

If you have both loved each other for the past 20 years, why worry about changing her beliefs? I have seen many couples in your situation make it work and I have never heard of other members putting them down for not being married to a Mormon. If anything they give them even more support and friendship. But then I live in California; perhaps the attitude is different in Utah?

Why rock the boat now?

How would you feel if the tables were turned and your wife suddenly became determined to take you INTO the church?

What you're proposing is reverse-proselytizing. I wouldn't do it, unless you get clear signals from her that she's interested in hearing a different point of view.

A good, strong, and loving marriage is a beautiful thing. Think very carefully before you rewrite the rules in yours.

"Some members of her ward shun her for being married to a non-Mormon. I know, for a fact, she is picked on at church at times as well as looked down upon due to not being married to a Mormon."

Just let the Mormons in her ward do your work for you. Keep on contrasting their behavior with yours. If their holier-than-thou asshattery doesn't drive her out, most likely nothing will.