The Mormon Church just admitted that the Book of Mormon is NOT a "textbook of history" and "It is not a definitive work on ancient American agriculture or politics. It is not a record of all former inhabitants of the Western Hemisphere..."

http://www.deseretnews.com/…/The-Book-of-Mormon-is-a-miracu…



To which I say... "I want my youth back you lying son of a bitch! I also want every dime I spent on my mission lying to every one I saw about this damn book, plus damages for every hardship I've ever faced mental of physical because of this monumental lie".

They just admitted it? Nelson said that 24 years ago.

https://www.lds.org/ensign/1993/07/a-treasured-testament?lang=eng

The link you gave doesn't work.

Couldn't get the link to work, could you post again?

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/865657216/The-Book-of-Mormon-is-a-miraculous-miracle-says-President-Russell-M-Nelson-at-2016-Seminar-for.html?pg=all

[Edited to add:]

“It is not a textbook of history, although some history is found within its pages. It is not a definitive work on ancient American agriculture or politics. It is not a record of all former inhabitants of the Western Hemisphere, but only of particular groups of people.”

The quote by Nelson is simply a collection of straw man fallacies thrown together in a desperate attempt to address some of the many glaring problems found in the Book of Mormon:

Critics don't claim it's supposed to be a "TEXTBOOK of history," but the history it contains should be accurate. It isn't.

Critics don't claim it's supposed to be a "DEFINITIVE work on ancient American agriculture or politics," but information it contains on ancient American agriculture and politics should match up with what we know to be true. It doesn't.

Critics don't claim it's supposed to be "a record of ALL former inhabitants of the Western Hemisphere," but the story it tells about peoples who are alleged to have existed in the Americas should have some basis in reality. It hasn't.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/01/2016 05:49PM by lurking in.

lurking in Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "...although some
> history is found within its pages.

False.
Nothing, not a single thing, in the BoM can be linked with any actual history.

Lying sack.

I'm quite sure the American Hebrews were real???

"President Nelson said. “It is not a textbook of history, although some history is found within its pages. It is not a definitive work on ancient American agriculture or politics. It is not a record of all former inhabitants of the Western Hemisphere, but only of particular groups of people.”


:::::shaking head::::::::

Ezra T Benson must be rolling in his grave

I want to know on which page history is found, exactly. C'mon, Nelson, give us a clue.

Is is fact or Fiction?
History is Fact, history means it happened, so if it is not a work of history, then it can only be a work of fiction.

Like I said above though, the link I provided shows he is just repeating something he said 24 years ago.

Remember that ETB pushed the BOM back in the 1980's, not because it is history, nor because it is spiritual fodder, but rather because LDS HQ's inventories of BOMs were over-brimming.

Thus, wham!, Revelation: We must flood the world with the BOM.

Read Daymon Smith's book "The Book of Mammon", or listen to his Mormon Stories podcast.

Sad at the least, disgusting at the worst.

Neo-Galileo

2 Nephi 1:8 says:

"8 And behold, it is wisdom that this land should be kept as yet from the knowledge of other nations; for behold, many nations would overrun the land, that there would be no place for an inheritance."

Checkmate.

Well, that's a part that's not historical...

My own parents punished me for refusing to believe the BoM was non fiction. I hope they remember the shitty treatment they gave me. I sure do. Stupid old liars and abusers.

Your other son feels the same way.

I read that article, and of all the preaching-to-the-choir stuff I've read that rehashes the same stuff TBM's have been spoon-fed their entire lives, it takes the cake for stuff.

It's also in Nelson's article "How to be a Missionary":

https://www.lds.org/friend/2011/11/how-can-i-be-a-missionary-now?lang=eng&query=%22book+of+mormon%22+history+novel

"You can invite a friend to read the Book of Mormon. Explain that it is not a novel or a history book. It is another testament of Jesus Christ."

But this contradicts the official church website
http://www.mormonnewsroom.org/article/book-of-mormon
which says:
"Latter-day Saints also consider the Book of Mormon to be a record of great ancient-American civilizations."

and the angel that delivered the plates from which Joseph Smith translated the BoM said that it IS history::

"He [the angel] said there was a book deposited, written upon gold plates, giving an account of the former inhabitants of this continent, and the source from which they sprang."(PoGP, JS-Hist 1:34)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/01/2016 07:28PM by RPackham.

Here is the first song I ever learned on the Piano..."Book of Mormon Stories". Here are the lyrics as still sung, taught and learned by every LDS child this very day....

18
Book of Mormon Stories

35395, Children's Songbook, The Gospel, Book of Mormon Stories, 118–19

1. Book of Mormon stories that my teacher tells to me
Are about the Lamanites in ancient history.
Long ago their fathers came from far across the sea,
Giv'n the land if they lived righteously.

2. Lamanites met others who were seeking liberty,
And the land soon welcomed all who wanted to be free.
Book of Mormon stories say that we must brothers be,
Giv'n the land if we live righteously.

3. Alma was rebellious, and he fought against the right.
Then one day an angel came to turn him to the light.
Struck before his brethren, Alma learned humility.
Then he taught in the land righteously.

4. Don't forget Abinadi, who stood before the king.
All chained up from head to toe, the gospel he did bring.
If he would deny it, then the king would set him free.
He was true, and he died righteously.

5. Ammon was a missionary serving Lamanites,
Tending King Lamoni's sheep for several days and nights.
Robbers came; he saved the sheep by fighting fearlessly.
He had learned he could live righteously.

6. Once two thousand sons of God were called to fight the foe.
Marching as an army into battle they did go.
They believed that Christ the Lord their guardian would be.
They had learned they should live righteously.

7. Samuel the Lamanite, high on the city wall,
Came to warn the people, and repentance was his call.
Arrows could not hit him, for a man of God was he,
And he taught in the land righteously.

8. After Christ was crucified and died for you and me,
He came forth to teach the truth to all who would be free.
Hands were laid upon each child. He blessed them tenderly,
And they lived in the land righteously.

Words and music: Elizabeth Fetzer Bates, b. 1909.


The children today are being taught as I was that the Book of Mormon was a literal history and "Samuel, Ammon, Lamoni etc were very real people, and if the people didn't obey god, they were punished. And now...it's no different than Harry Potter or Lord of the Rings...except the last two are more interesting. This is child abuse.

What a bunch of losers.

Disgusting losers.

And to go to lengths to translate the words he wants so that he can be redundant --- as if saying that it is a "miraculous miracle" somehow makes it even better than anyone might have thought otherwise. But is it a miraculously miraculous miracle? Or just a plain-old everyday miraculous miracle? I'm way too skeptical to accept something that's only a miraculous miracle. I really need at least two or three more miraculousities before I'm going to doubt my doubts and call in the missionaries.

Can these people really be thinking, at all? Did their script writers never go to college? Do they imagine that the church is really going to grow as a result of proclaiming nonsense publicly?

It's just a puzzling puzzle to me.

The afossils and their writers are playing to the audience that believes everything they afossils utter.

There is no need to try to placate all us apostate non-tithe payers.

It's miraculous that so many people still believe in it.

Leaving Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It's miraculous that so many people still believe
> in it.

You think the afossils go over the church finances and mutter to themselves about how much ghawd loves them?

That and when they look at the admiring sheep at GC it brings tears to their eyes.

"Let me quote a very powerful comment from President Ezra Taft Benson, who said, “The Book of Mormon is the keystone of [our] testimony. Just as the arch crumbles if the keystone is removed, so does all the Church stand or fall with the truthfulness of the Book of Mormon. The enemies of the Church understand this clearly. This is why they go to such great lengths to try to disprove the Book of Mormon, for if it can be discredited, the Prophet Joseph Smith goes with it. So does our claim to priesthood keys, and revelation, and the restored Church..."

...church. Because the Book of Mormon is nothing more than a bloody, violent story.

Nelson said, "It is not a record of all former inhabitants of the Western Hemisphere, but only of particular groups of people."

This idea would surprise JS and many other church leaders. It was invented, along with the Limited Geography Theory, only when it became obvious just how ridiculous and indefensible the traditional "empty land" assumption truly was. Even Nelson doesn't have that much faith.


Joseph Smith History 1:34
"[Moroni] said there was a book deposited, written upon gold plates, giving an account of the former inhabitants of this continent, and the source from whence they sprang. He also said that the fulness of the everlasting Gospel was contained in it, as delivered by the Savior to the ancient inhabitants;"

Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation, Vol. 3, p. 209:
"INSPIRED NATURE OF BOOK OF MORMON. The Book of Mormon is the sacred history of the ancient inhabitants of the American continent; it contains the predictions of their prophets, the commandments of the Lord to them, and the history and destiny of those ancient peoples…"

Joseph Fielding Smith, The Restoration of All Things, p. 93:
"According to the word of the Lord to Joseph Smith the continent of America was given to Joseph and his posterity as an everlasting inheritance. That is what is meant by the branches running over the wall. The Book of Mormon professes to be the history, in large part, of these children of Joseph who were led out of Jerusalem six hundred years B.C. to this land fulfilling this patriarchal promise."

Teachings of Ezra Taft Benson, p. 576:
"The Book of Mormon chronicles the rise and fall of two mighty civilizations in America that failed to give heed to this decree, and thus met with destruction. The Book of Mormon declares that God deliberately kept the American continent hidden until the Holy Roman Empire had broken up and the various nations had established themselves as independent kingdoms. Keeping America hidden until this time was no accident."

Orson Pratt, January 2, 1859, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 7, p. 33:
"…[The Book of Mormon] professes to contain the history of part of the tribe of Joseph, who came out of the land of Jerusalem 600 years before Christ, and colonized the American continent. These Indian tribes are their descendants…"

George Q. Cannon, July 21, 1867, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 19, pp. 202-03:
"…But God, our Heavenly Father, reserved this – the land of promise – for the especial purpose of building up his kingdom in the latter days. As the 'Book of Mormon' informs us, it has been hid from the eyes of the generations of men for this purpose. If it had not been thus hidden the nations of the earth would have overrun the land until there would have been no foothold found for the establishment of the kingdom of God upon it. But the Lord concealed it, from the days of the flood, from the eyes of men, excepting those whom he led hither; as we are informed by the 'Book of Mormon' that no nation after the flood, knew anything about this land…"

Brigham Young, April 24, 1870, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 13, p. 335:
"Here is the Book of Mormon. We believe it contains the history of the Aborigines of our continent, just as the Old Testament contains the history of the Jewish nation…"

Orson Pratt, November 27, 1870, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 14, pp. 298-99:
"…we have something tangible, something contained in the form of a revelation; it is not a mere verbal message by the voice of an angel, but an entire record, a sacred history of the western world, of one half of our globe, detailing the wars of the people of this continent, the same as the Jewish record contains the history of the wars and doings of the Jews of the eastern continent…"

Orson Pratt, November 15, 1874, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 17, p. 274:
"[The Book of Mormon] pretends to be a history of the coming of a small colony, two or three families, from the city of Jerusalem, led by the hand of the Lord. They built a ship by the command of the Lord, and were guided by his hand across the ocean; they landed on the western coast of South America, about six hundred years before Christ; and after that they worked their way up towards the narrow strip of land we call the Isthmus, and founded settlements and, finally, about fifty years before Christ, sent forth their colonies into the north wing of the continent, which we call North America, and in process of time the whole land became peopled and overspread with millions of people…"

George Q. Cannon, Conference Report, April 1898, p. 84:
"…but through the long centuries that elapsed from the confusion of tongues at the Tower of Babel, when the inhabitants of the earth were scattered, until the time that Columbus, inspired of God, went from court to court, pleading with the governments of nations to give him the means to penetrate the ocean and find what he supposed was the Indies – during all that time the knowledge of this land was kept from all the nations of the earth…"

Anthony W. Ivins, Conference Report, April 1904, p. 55:
"…Then came Moroni with the record contained in the Book of Mormon, lifting the veil from off this great continent of ours, and giving to us the key by which the mysteries of these great ruins in Mexico, Central America and Northern South America (many of which I have seen myself) may be unlocked, and by which the hand-dealings of God with the mighty peoples who have occupied the American continent are known…"

Orson F. Whitney, Conference Report, October 1916, p. 52:
"…An angel reveals the hidden past of the American continent – the Book of Mormon, containing the fulness of the gospel, a history of the Americas in prehistoric times, and a prophecy of their wondrous future…"

Spencer W. Kimball, Conference Report, October 1959, pp. 57-58, 60:
"The Lord calls you 'Lamanites,' a name which has a pleasant ring, for many of the grandest people ever to live upon the earth were so called. In a limited sense, the name signifies the descendants of Laman and Lemuel, sons of your first American parent, Lehi; but you undoubtedly possess also the blood of the other sons, Sam, Nephi, and Jacob. And you likely have some Jewish blood from Mulek, son of Zedekiah, king of Judah… When your prophet Lehi led you out of Jerusalem about 600 years B.C., you brought with you the best of the culture of Egypt and Palestine and of the then known world… When Columbus came, your tribes had covered the islands of the Pacific and the Americas from Tierra del Fuego to Point Barrow…"

A. Theodore Tuttle, Conference Report, April 1965, p. 30:
"The Book of Mormon is the word of God and is a record of his ministry among the ancestors of these Indians. Columbus named them Indians. He thought he had discovered the Indies. In reality they are Lamanites… Today these people, whose ancestors saw the Risen Christ, number in the millions. They range from Canada to la Tierra del Fuego. In North America many dwell on reservations. Thousands are scattered throughout Mexico and Central America. In South America they live in the jungle and on the tops of the Andes. The blood of this chosen people flows in the veins of many of those who live south of the Rio Grande."

Excellent quotes. Mormonism's lies have finally caught up with them. Try as they might, they are stuck with their previous "word of god" statements whether they will ever honestly admit it or not.

In any case, it's all just one big crock of bullshit from beginning to end.

Ahhm, blah blah today's prophet overrides former blah spew gurgle.......

That's the bullsh!tiest bullsh!t I've heard today. It's the kind of language you hear when somebody is talking down to their audience like they're children. Or maybe when you're talking about the truliest most truest book ever brimming over with truthiness it inspires such brilliant twists of phrases?

The paragraph that made me giggle is this:

"The Book of Mormon serves as a clarifier of doctrine. 'It refutes many myths. At the same time, it affirms truths previously obscured and reveals many glorious facts of the doctrine of Christ lost or previously unknown,' he said."

Like heck it does! It is one of the biggest myths and hoaxes in modern day times perpetrated on millions of unsuspecting believers in its faux religion.

Ballard is currently the highest ranking apostle serving. His career before being called to the GA was a businessman, salesman (car,) and other enterprises. He was a highly skilled salesman, before he started his second career as a church official.

He's a sincere believer, but sincerely deluded as a man of faith in a false prophet/gospel.

What doctrine does the BoM clarify? What truth previously obscured does it reveal? What myths does it refute?

Priesthood? Temples? God was once a man? God has a body? Men can become Gods? Pre-existence? Baptism for the dead? Three levels of heaven? Eternal marriage?

None of the doctrines unique to Mormonism are actually in the Book of Mormon.

Indeed.

And:

"The good things about Mormonism are not unique, and the unique things about Mormonism are not good."

Neo-Galileo

For me the failure of the Book of Mormon doesn't lie in its historicity or lack thereof. It lies in the fact that, for me, it does not inspire. It's devoid of art, power, nuance, complexity, irony, metaphor, archetype. It's 97% "Nephi did this and then Fred did this and then God showed up and said this and then Ralph said this and then Alma did this and then God dropped by again and then Gomer did this." It's a several-hundred-page deposition. The reading of a rich uncle's will in court contains more intrigue, suspense, and ramification.

Conclusion: God, and the Creation thus spawned, are boring. My personal experience contradicts such a sad assertion.

Of course we should not forget the words of the book itself, which used to say, "all were destroyed except the lamanites and they are the principal ancestors of the American Indians." This is just another attempt to salvage The Book of Mormon and inoculate the coming generations against the facts which show that it is nothing more than myth. When I went on my mission to Central America In 1973, I was told over and over that everyone we were teaching were descendants of the Lamanites from The Book of Mormon. When we went to visit the ruins at Copan, we all marveled about the ingenuity of the Nephites or lamanites or whomever. Now, It's just a matter of a little word play and we're expected to swallow it hook, line & sinker. I'm so glad I'm out.

By the way, if the Book of Mormon Is a doctrinal clarifier, then please explain to me why nothing is mentioned in the book about the Celestial Kingdom. The book is nothing more than a Protestant rehashing of Christian doctrine that was prevalent in Smith's day.

This will be archived. It is amazing how TSCC has morphed over the years.