I grew up with (and say): "CongraJUlations"...

This probably depends on local dialect all over the United States (or maybe, all over North America).

My parents say it with the D. They grew up in mormonland.

I say it with a T. I grew up in a PNW city.

I think the time, place, and culture influence this.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/11/2016 02:21AM by madalice.

Beth Wrote:
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> n/t

Hi!!

:D

What about congratCHEWlations?

Basically, it all goes back to the tongue having a hard time making the T-to-U transition. Some things are just easier to write than to speak.

Much of the time these days I cut through the crap and just say Mazel Tov. It works like a charm. ;))

With Congrats, I grew up saying it more with the d sound. These days I tend to put the t sound into it more, perhaps owing to living on the East Coast. The dialect here is somewhat different than my childhood home back in the Morridor.

To a loved one, why not: Congranulations, sugar!

Many sound combinations in a language (not just English) end up in shortcuts by combining into something other than the original individual sounds. A typical conversation in America:

"Jeetjet?
"No, jew?
"Notchit. Squeet!"

Translation:
"Did you eat yet?
"No, did you?
"Not yet. Let's go eat."

who asked this very question: "Mr. Catnip, what means 'squeet?' "

He didn't have a clue, so he had her back up the conversation so he could get a sense of the context.

Turns out it was lunchtime, so it was "Let's go eat."

We have stayed in touch with her for years. She is now married to a German guy. They emigrated to Canada 10 years ago, so they both speak excellent English. They have an adorable little boy, now 7, who is fluent in Portuguese, German and English.

I visited them in Berlin when I was in Europe some 10 years ago (arrived on 9/11/06!) Her then graduate-student husband was majoring in both Spanish (he spoke Castilian) and American literature. So when the three of us were out and about, on bus or metro, we conversed in either English or Spanish, since my German has long since been rusted to shreds. It was fun.

It's probably for the same reasons many Americans say LID/del (my computer won't make the upside-down e schwa sound for this site), SED/del for "settle," and graj/u/a/shun instead of grad/u/a/shun. There's also "comfortable," which is correctly pronounced /cumf/tur/bul (again, I can't use this program for the schwa sound).Then there's the preferred pronunciation of "often," which is of/fen. Consult a standard American -English dictionary (i.e. Merriam Webster et al) if you don't believe that of/fen is the actual preferred pronunciation. Of/ten, with the "t" pronounced, has become an acceptable alternate pronunciation in more recent decades primarily because of years of mispronunciation with the /t/ included. Long-term misuse often results in an errant pronunciation (or, for that matter, an errant grammatical usage) receiving acceptable secondary pronunciation (or usage) status. (A grammatical example would be the virtual disappearance of the word "whom" from all but the most formal of written english.)

Then we have the English words and names "Worcestershire," pronounced WOOS/ter/shur and "Gloucester," pronounced GLOS/ter. There's also the less common Great Bringhamton, pronounced Great BRING/tun."

The reasons for discrepancy between spelling and pronunciation are primarily two-fold. Reason number one is that the English language is an incredibly eclectic language, which changed every time a new conqueror took over England, and further adapted each time the English language was taken to a new land. Not only were new words introduced based on the language of the most recent conquerors, but pronunciations of existing words were often adapted. Secondly, the English themselves have a tendency to say things in the easiest way there is for the mouth to produce the sounds and combine them to form words. If you think about it, when does the long sound of the letter "u" sound more like "yoo" and when does it sound more like "oo"? It depends entirely upon the preceding letter or sound, and whether the sound is more easily pronounced as "OO" following the letter, or whether it's equally simple to pronounce it as "Yoo." That's why we have "oo" in "tune" and "clue," but "yoo" in "funeral" and "cue."

No committee ever sat down together and came up with these rules, by the way. It's just how the language evolved over time.

This info came from my wife. She was a dual English and math undergraduate major, and, as such, is far more of a linguist than am I.

> No committee ever sat down together
> and came up with these rules, by the
> way. It's just how the language
> evolved over time.

Doc, ask the wife if there was ever any truth to what I was told in Mexico while on my mission, that Spanish grammar rules are/were overseen by a committee in Spain. Wikipedia does not list such an organization for Spanish, but there is one for a whole bunch of languages, including Portuguese...

Pronunciation of words in Spanish is a tangled web... What you see on paper is often not what you hear.

congrations on your thred OPie

There is often a tendency for sounds to take on characteristics of their neighbors. The "t" sound does not have vocal fold (= vocal cord) vibration associated with it in its most basic version but in the word we're talking about it's sandwiched between two vowel sounds that do have vocal fold vibration. It's more efficient for us to just keep the vibration going, which turns the "t" sound into a "d" (those two sounds are otherwise identical--the only difference is whether the vocal folds are moving or not).

I don't know.

Ask me me on Wenzday.

I even spelled it wrong for years. I always heard and said it with a D.

Not sure why this particular word was hard for me to get right.

Topper Wrote:
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> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R9bOxvpDP2o

Nevermo question...

Is Melchizedek supposed to be from Hebrew?

If so, the Hebrew letter "ch" is NOT pronounced "k" (which is a perfectly good Hebrew letter all by itself ("kof" in English transliteration).

(I have always felt affection for "kof", ever since I learned how to write it in Hebrew---because the Hebrew letter "kof" is not only visually beautiful in a very classicly simple way, it is instantly recognizable, and regardless of where in a word it appears.)

"ch" is another Hebrew letter entirely (actually: it is TWO different Hebrew letters, depending on where it appears in a word), and it is pronounced as a very rough "h," like someone clearing their throat as they say it, and though the "roughness" is softened somewhat in actual Hebrew speech, the "ch" sound is still a distinctly DIFFERENT sound than is an English-language "k" sound). (In speech, the two different sounds CANNOT be mistaken for each other---they are THAT different.)

I am very glad you posted this, Topper, because I (a nevermo) never knew if the "ch" was an English-language "k," or if it was a Hebrew (German, Dutch, etc.) "rough h."

From now on, when I see "Melchizedek," I will mentally replace the "ch" with a Hebrew "kof."

Many thanks!!!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/11/2016 04:24PM by Tevai.

I say it with the 't'

In answer to the question, I suppose it is because most also say "eggsit instead of exit or "telavision" instead of telEvision or "mountuns" instead of mountains. But then I listen with an English accent.

Heard Texans say "impordant" or 'impordent' instead of important. Seems its a regional dialect pronunciation.

My blood literally boils when I hear that

Li ber ary & Feb ru ary are often short-circuited;

long time PNW individuals of 'back in the day' at least learned to pronounce all of the syllables.


(says me born in Sea at tle)


When I started with Utahns with their twang, it drove me CRAZY!

har ses to ride

coors to drive.


Canadians might have it just as bad:

Sault Sainte Marie: Soo Saint Marie



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 10/20/2018 09:27PM by GNPE.

GNPE Wrote:
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> Li ber ary & Feb ru ary are often
> short-circuited;
>
> long time PNW individuals of 'back in the day' at
> least learned to pronounce all of the syllables.
>
>
> (says me born in Sea at tle)
>
>
> When I started with Utahns with their twang, it
> drove me CRAZY!
>
> har ses to ride
>
> coors to drive.
>
>
> Canadians might have it just as bad:
>
> Sault Sainte Marie: Soo Saint Marie

Library. Li-bra-ry.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/21/2018 02:15AM by lisadee.

Henry Higgins in "My Fair Lady" hit the nail on the head.

Why can't the English teach their children how to speak?
This verbal class distinction by now should be antique!!!!
If you spoke as she does sir
In stead of the way you do
Why you might be selling flowers too!!

Most of my neighbors pay a membership fee to shop at 'Cosco'even if the sign out front says Costco. However, the true believers don't shoot Cosco on Sunday.

Most of the neighbors wouldn't think of shooting Cosco. They shop. Dang autocorrect!

In February (Feb roo air ee) I say congraTulations

In Feb you air ee I say
congraDulations

Canadians (at least the ones I know) and I suppose UKers don't pronounce Wednesday as Wenzday, but just as it is spelled, though they do swallow that middle syllable a bit. The first "d" is definitely there.

Wedsday?

That Utah accent was new to me, coming from Oregon -- not Or-e-gone. argh...

American/Spanish Fork was Fark

corn was carn

mountain was mow'tn

Lots more...

phases were different - can you "tend" my children, no such thing as babysitting

Then there was the radio announcer that didn't know how to say cougar so he advertised the bank's new "cow-gar" checks..

Then the Texans like to keep it simple and just drop a bunch of syllables.. South Carolina does it also.

Fayetteville does not have three syllables - only two..



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/21/2018 09:16PM by SusieQ#1.

slammingsam Wrote:
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> n/t

We are a bunch of dummies.
They ask a lot of questions.

P.S. I am not them

I didn't want her to learn my Philly accent. She was born in San Diego while I was in the Navy, and I was away from home for about seven years.

I enunciated damn near every T and G and ing and syllable in every word. I learned to say "water" instead of "wudder." I did develop a CA coastal accent of drawing out words some and sometimes "talking up" where declaratory statements sound like questions. Still, that was preferable to that Philly accent.

When I got out of the Navy and moved back to the Delaware Valley, I said, "water" and my mother said, "WaTer? WaTER?! Who do you think you are?" <-- and yeah. I think I just stared at her kind of confused.

I’m not comfterbull with this topic.

Regional accent. I’m pretty sure I say it with a “t.

I’m Canadian. I say Wenzday. Of course it’s Soo Ste. Marie. We tend to call it The Soo.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/22/2018 12:13PM by Greyfort.

Why do mormons put "T"s in words that have no "T"s ?