http://www.deseretnews.com/article/865668355/Mormons-with-doubts-shouldnt-give-up-faith-without-intellectual-and-spiritual-kicking-and.html

It is really offensive for MORmONS to presume that those of us who "gave up the faith" did so without any attempt to reconcile the bogus claims of Joseph's Myth with reality. I know I tried the LDS prescription (Pay, Pray and Obey) for at least 10 years, w/o success, until my conscience finally, literally said outloud, "It is a fraud." In the middle of a sea of Penis Holders at General Priesthood Conference, in response to the PRofit saying, "It all boils down to the First Vision. It either happened the way Joseph Smith said it did, making it the greatest news since Jesus Christ, or it didn't and it is the biggest fraud ever foisted upon mankind."
I gathered up my sleeping teenage Son and left and never went back.

I know MORmONS,
Instead of bitching about those of us who "gave up the faith" (woke up from our Joseph's Myth induced delusion) How about just answering the serious questions posed by your recent admission that the founder of your church actually "married" his followers wives and teenage daughters as young as 14?

How the hell is it possible to defend that morally corrupt (evil) behavior, with zero justification theologically, morally, ethically?
How can you, in good conscience, continue to allow your children to sing the praises of a pedophile and a rapist, who violated every law ever recorded governing marriage, inckuding the one he authored and claimed came straight from God Allmighty?
Are you really THAT delusional, unethical, immoral, stupid?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/01/2016 09:03PM by koriwhore.

"It is really offensive for MORmONS to presume"

"Are you really THAT delusional, unethical, immoral, stupid?"



It is equally offensive for you to presume that Mormons are delusional, unethical, immoral, and stupid.

I think you understand that when you ask such aggressive, confrontational, and contextually disparate questions that you are boxing Mormons in. They are forced to fight you or run away because they don't understand what you are saying.

I respect the depth of your emotion and knowledge. I find your derision distasteful. It is my opinion that Mormons will gain more from your emotion and knowledge if it was not accompanied by that derision.

lied to, financially exploited, emotionally blackmailed.... I too, tend to get a bit aggressive toward those who support this con, protect, rationalize, sympatize with and enable this organzation all the while maligning the victims in order to protect their beleif system.

Seems to me that the only way to get through to some people it to stop being polite about it as you put the hard unvarnished truth forward.

If they don't like it.... tough

It seems to me you are confusing two different issues.

On the one hand, you are angry about the way the church treated you. A lot of us share your feelings. We also share your lack of patience and your "aggressive" instincts towards the church. On the other hand, however, you assert that confronting people is the only way to get through to them about the church's abuses.

I submit that those are radically different propositions. One can't proceed from the fact that something is emotionally rewarding to the conclusion that it is an effective means of convincing people.

Well put. That said, there probably is a subgroup of Mormons who will not respond to anything short of aggressively challenging their beliefs. For my part, I prefer to let those Mormons continue to believe whatever they choose.

sorry - i respectively don't agree with you....

if one is unable to express oneself without being judged, then there can be no recovery.....

What exactly are you disagreeing with? Do you disagree that it is disrespectful to indiscriminately call an entire group delusional, unethical, immoral, and stupid? Do you disagree with my opinion that derision isn't the best way to communicate an idea? And how did I disrupt the OP's prodigious ability to express an opinion?

wow.....

I know. Right?

That's fine to disagree.
I agree with the Cultural critics who gave 17Emmy's and a Grammy to comedians like Matt Stone and Trey Parker for making fun of MORONS, lol,
They're fucking immoral to stay in it at this point, 20years after Google and after their bogus Sex Cult was forced to admit that what the critics have been saying all along turns out to be true, Joseph really did rape little girls as young as a few months shy of 15. WTF? The PRofit became less ethical with taht statement, than a tobacco industry lawyer.
I agree with people like Bill Maher, Jon Stewart, Stephen Colbert, Lewis Black, and just about every other comedian when it comes to MORONISM. It's a fucking joke.
Can't wait for MORONISM to take center stage, AGAIN, so Bill Maher and every other comic can slam the shit out of MORMONs on a public stage.
I agree with Sam Harris, Richard Dawkins, and the Dead Horseman.
So I've got no problem being diametrically oppposed to you, and still appreciating your point of view.
I'm over being nice about the rapists who rape kids.
I'm done with being nice to people who think rape is cool, as long as you've got "Priesthood Authority" over somebody who's infinitely less powerful than you, due to their delusional beliefs.
The very definition of delusion is "Maintaining persistent beliefs, despite superior evidence to the contrary."
Mormons refuse to answer questions, even when I offer them money.
And they say you can buy anything with money, except an honest answer from a fucking MORmON.



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 12/01/2016 09:00PM by koriwhore.

OK, be my editor.
Edit my question to make it more clear,

"Are you really THAT delusional, unethical, immoral, stupid?"

What words should I take out of that question?

#1. Delusion: Maintaining persistent beliefs despite superior evidence to the contrary.

#2. Unethical: not morally correct

#3. Immoral: not conforming to accepted standards of morality.

#4. Stupid: lacking common sense.

Anybody who has no problem with singing the praises of a pervert who raped his follower's wives and teenage daughters not only meets all of the above definitions, I don't want them around my wife and kids.

I don't want them teaching my kids that they should emulate a rapist and a con man, llike Joseph SMith, who is no better than Warren Jeffs.
They might as well tell my kids that they should follow Warren Jeffs, right to prison for the rest of his life.

Fuck that.
Fuck MORONISM!!!
It's an abusive cult and people like you should be ashemed of yourselves for defending rape culture, which is what it is.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/01/2016 09:13PM by koriwhore.

Dichotomous thinking is fun.

How about an honest answer, for once, out of a Mormon?

You can buy you anything in this world with money,
except an honest answer from a MORmON, to a serious question,

"How can you justify the fact, which your church just admitted, after lying by omission for 170 years, that Joseph Smith "Married" 11 of his follower's wives?"

How the hell is that even possible to marry another man's wife? When there never has been a law in all of Civilization, ever recorded, that allowed that kind of adulterous, morally and ethically WRONG, behavior.

We only have laws that condemn abusing your power to fuck your follower's wives and teenage daughters as adultery.

If you occupy some middle ground on that issue, I'd suggest you grow a GD backbone.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/01/2016 10:37PM by koriwhore.

That is really the problem isn't it. You go into the situation expecting dishonestly. Individual Mormons are honest in their belief and devotion. They are sincere. They are wrong but that doesn't change that they are honest in their belief.

The organization is evil and tends to breed people who mirror the organization. That doesn't mean that every Mormon is deviant to the same degree as its leaders.

I drink to much, like Joseph. I cheated on my wife, like Joseph. I quit my church, like Joseph. I look at porn, like Joseph. Sure I didn't start a church around my various vices like Joseph, but still I'm not a good man.

I know so many good people, better than I am. There are so many of these good people who are Mormon. And they worship a man who raped children so I guess I'm good.

Black and White thinking is fun but it is not reality. Very few things are black and white.


Focus that energy in hating the organization that robs these good people of their capacity to do good.

There can be no real "intellectual kicking and screaming" on the way out; only lame apologetics and irrational rationalizations can save a questioning member from a personal faith crisis over Mormonism.

[Edited for clarity]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/01/2016 04:20PM by lurking in.

"Most people who decide to leave the church really end up leaving a cartoon of the church"


Blame the victim, much? I think they ironically miss the fact that what the church sells*is* a feel-good propaganda cartoon.

As missionaries, do you think you sold a "cartoon" of the church?

Is GC a "cartoon" of the church.

Are all those church produced movies and paintings "cartoons" of JS?

I did leave a cartoon of the Church, just as soon as I found out that it was a cartoon, and the real Church was a thousand times worse.

Wait a minute.

The missionaries NEVER tell anyone not to be baptized "without
intellectual and spiritual kicking and screaming." They never
say, "look in to all sides of it and check with those on the
other side before committing." They never say "only get
baptized as a last resort."

There are two things I like about the Church: its face.

Very good point.

As for adultery and rape by Joseph Smith , all my husband has to say about it is " If God says it's ok,then it's ok "

And, as my brother the institute director pointed out, if God
said he was to do it and he had to lie openly to do it then the
lying is also OK.

That is how MORmON "principle" and MORmON Jesus work.

That's an honest way of lying,

God didn't say it was OK.

He said it wasn't OK, so it's not OK.

God said it right in the 10 Commandments, twice.
As if that's not enough,

It even says it in the D&C:132:61, 5 different times, in one verse, which, Joseph claimed, came straight from God's lips.


61 And again, as pertaining to the law of the priesthood—if any man espouse a virgin, and desire to espouse another, and the first give her consent (Strike 1, Emma never gave her consent when she was never even aware of the adultery her cheating husband committed behind her back), and if he espouse the second, and they are virgins (Strike 2, when it comes to Polyandry, obviously another man's wife is not virgin material), and have vowed to no other man (Strike 3, not OK then, right?), then is he justified; he cannot commit adultery for they are given unto him (Strike 4, how many ways can you violate a simple GD law? a married wife cant and never can marry another man's wife); for he cannot commit adultery with that that belongeth unto him and to no one else(Checkmate).

If that's the same God that gave Joseph permission to fuck other men's wives, that Pagan Porn God is not only a pimp, but a liar and a hypocrite.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/01/2016 11:11PM by koriwhore.

<< who violated every law ever recorded governing marriage,<<

In this post-war-on-poverty-world (1965) there are lots of confusing marriage situations, it seems to me that men and women are increasingly raising other peoples children, everyone seems to be paying and receiving child support from who knows who. Women now have kids each from a different man. And there's a rise in autism and adhd. Everyone has a disability now, everyone is a special snowflake. 72% of black children are born to single parent households.

Joe didn't do anything new. His trouble is that it's all recorded, but polygamy/polandry/mistresses or whatever we want to call it is the norm in society today.

Rather than paint all Mormons with too broad a brush (I am, after all, married to one who I love very much), it helps me to make a distinction between the rank-and-file members and those who are, or aspire to be, in positions of authority.

koriwhore, if you enjoy strengthening people's testimonies by presenting the face of the "angry apostate" they are taught to expect, by all means continue. If you really want to help people out of the church, your efforts might be better spent doing what the missionaries are taught to do: build relationships of trust, determine when people are ready to receive your message, present the message, resolve concerns, rinse and repeat.

About 4 1/2 years ago, a coworker I respect, but who hasn't seen the inside of an LDS church for decades, mentioned to me in passing that his great-great-grandfather was an apostle who had been sent on a mission by Brigham Young because Brigham wanted to marry his wife. I smiled pleasantly but didn't say anything. He wasn't trying to destroy my faith, just relating a family story. What I didn't tell him was that, in my mind, I thought, "if this is true, Brigham Young couldn't have been a true prophet." After he left my office, I did an Internet search and didn't find anything, so I chalked it up as a family tradition that may have missing details.

About a year later, I was reading History of the Church while waiting for the Frontrunner after attending the temple. I read that Joseph Smith and his buddies drank wine right before he was murdered. It wasn't so much the wine that bothered me, but that it was purchased in Carthage, where Joseph had said all the residents were enemies. D&C 27:3-4 came to mind (an angel commanded JS not to purchase wine from his enemies). That led me to FAIR, where I discovered an article by Brian Hales that admitted Joseph Smith married other men's wives. I knew D&C 132 said plural wives must be virgins, so I thought, "if this is true, Joseph Smith couldn't be a true prophet." One of the first things that came to mind was my coworker's story about Brigham Young. This time, my quest to confirm through LDS-friendly sources not only was successful, but led me to all the other disturbing facts that get mentioned here, and ultimately led me and my family to resign from the church. Eventually, I told my coworker, who had forgotten all about telling me his Brigham Young story.

My main point is, I wasn't willing immediately to admit, when confronted with disturbing facts, that the church might not be true. I think that's a natural defense mechanism. But that doesn't mean what he said didn't have an impact on me. If you want to tell people the truth about the church, don't expect them to admit right away they're in a fraudulent religion. If they're ready, they will figure it out.

I just want an honest answer, to my serious question from a MORmON, for once in my life.
Until such time as I get an honest answer from a MORmON, I'm going to keep hunting down the worlds biggest army of Doomsday Sex CULT recruiters and confronting them on why they're out lying to gullible people, trying to convince them to sing the praises of a sexual predator and a Con Man.
You follow their example as you please, since we all know what marvelous results they've acheived after 150 yrs of the worlds biggest brainwashing effort.

Really, Koriwhore? All you want is an honest answer to your serious question?

You told us the question you wanted to ask Mormons. In fact, you told us twice. It was,

"Are you really THAT delusional, unethical, immoral, stupid?"

That is not a serious question and it does not deserve any response at all.

Mormonism: confounding Mormons, and the world, with inaccuracies, assumptions, broad generalizations, hype, lies, and bs, since its inception.

This is clearly Mormon opposite day - character means you can, and probably will, leave TMC, and it's BS forever, and probably sooner than later, if you haven't already.

These dummies sure make it a lot easier for those with (at least half a wit) a sincere desire for truth, to progress.

I kicked and screamed for a very long time before leaving the church. It was a difficult process. All of my family had preceded my departure and I was very determined to remain in the church, but reason and intellect won out in the long run. Once I was satisfied that the church was not, as it claimed, the true church; I then departed and joined with my family on our journey to the outside together. It was liberating knowing that, in my mind, I had done the investigative work and the only recourse was leaving the church behind. Mine was not an easy way out because I wanted the church to be all that it claims to be, but that is not the case so left I did.

And let's not forget how you get kicked and screamed at AFTER
you leave the cult. If there's anything they hate more than a
doubter, it's an "apostate."

It doesn't take much intelligence to leave the cult.

Ultimately we all have to decide what our goal is. Do we want to encourage people to question and leave the church or do we want to vent our rage? They are different things.

Runrunrun notes that "if one is unable to express oneself without being judged," then there can be no recovery....." I think that is right, at least for a lot of people. But the way this thread started, before Koriwhore edited the OP, is with the implication that his approach would help people leave the church. That is wrong. The church thrives on opposition.

Moreover, if being able to express oneself "without being judged" is essential to recovery, then deriding the church to church members is silly. Of course we are judged, quite harshly, when we attack the church aggressively in conversation with TBMs. The place for nonjudgmental expression of pain and rage is in therapy or with sympathetic family and friends.

My concern is that we confuse what is necessary for our own recoveries and what is necessary for Mormons' seeing the truth and initiating their own recoveries. I see a problem with expressing our sense of betrayal and rage in places and ways that reinforce others' commitment to the church. That seems selfish.

I choose to continue to ask MORmONS the kinds of serious questions that compelled me to actually think about how evil and batshit crazy my beliefs were, until I get an honest answer out of a MORmON, for once in my life.
Which seems like the most responsible thing to do, in response to being threatened with discipline for asking serious questions.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/03/2016 10:27AM by koriwhore.

"Are you really THAT delusional, unethical, immoral, stupid?"

That, again, is the serious question you have told us multiple times you intend to ask Mormons. It is a self-indulgent question that is not really aimed at dialogue or persuasion. It is like your juvenile and ethically dubious surreptitious recordings of ambushes of missionaries: designed to make you feel good and to embarrass others while actually driving most of your targets defensively back into the false certainties of Mormonism.

The CES approach, and USN77's approach, of opening the door and letting the church's inhumanity and dishonesty push people into questioning the doctrine and leaving the faith, is the honest and effective strategy. Repeating endlessly lazy phrases like "MORmON," "sing the praises," "Doomsday Sex CULT recruiters," is not effective at anything but perhaps gratifying some need in you. You asked above for someone to edit your posts. I suggest you start you start with these mindless mantras.

You are of course free to say anything that makes you feel good, but don't patronize us by claiming that you are an effective foe of the church.

You're right. It is a serious question, but the ones before it were even more serious questions.
You glossed over answering those questions and instead jumped to the last question.
Interesting.


Meanwhile women are failing Art Class at BYU for exposing their shoulders.
While they watch white, viriginal and delightsome BYU cheerleaders expose far more every Saturday cheering on a team representing a Cult that names their universities named after a child rapist and a cuckold bull who stole his followers Wives and made babies with them, after sending them off on a wild adventure overseas, in the 19th Century, 8 times.
How more hypocritical can you possibly be?
While they're forced to sing praises to a man they know had sex with other men's wives and teenage daughters.

By defending an abusive Doomsday sex CULT you normalize an intitutionalized CULTure of rape.

By singing praises to a man who raped his followers children, Mormons are helping to maintain the institution of child rape.

I'm long past being nice to people who enable child rape on a regular basis and say NOTHING about it, because they want to be nice. That's called group think, herd mentality, tribalism, and we've run out of time for that kind of thinking.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 12/03/2016 04:07PM by koriwhore.

Of course that's the question I reproduced. Why? Because that is the one, in this thread, that you found most deserving of repetition and defense. You made that choice, not I.

Below you say that you never claimed to be an effective foe of the church. That is not true. If we were to go back and look at your posts and your videos of accosting missionaries, we would see extensive claims by you that you were tearing the church down. We would see you claim that if anyone had done that to you when you were a missionary, you would have left the church. And we would see denunciations of the moderate approach embodied in the CES letter and other conscientious efforts to facilitate people's departure from the church. You have declared numerous times that yours is the proper attitude to adopt when trying to drive people from the church.

The problem, Koriwhore, is that we read your posts. We know and recall what you say.

I just want answers.
You obviously have none.
Just like the MORmON's you defend.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/03/2016 09:30PM by koriwhore.

That's right, Kori, I defend Mormons. Thanks for that insight.

You are attacking me for asking the questions Mormons refuse to even hear.
Thats the same way my Bishop acted. Tgreatened me with "discipline for asking serious questions.
You act exactly like my exwife who threatened me with divorce for speaking truth to our children. My truth.
Where I live, we actually believe and respect freedom far more than bogus myths which deserve our derision.

Kori, I want the church to implode. I want its members freed and the next generation of kids to live without the crushing burden that we and so many others have borne. But that does not mean I have to approve of your tactics which, in my view, reinforce the church's worldview.

And no, I don't think that personal rage--yours, mine, or anyone else's--justifies doing things that push people further into the church's clutches.

Having to face difficult quetions helped me to wake up and smell the coffee.
I don't think people who sing praises to a pedophile, rapist ought to be confortable with their world views.
I don't approve of your tactics.
I approve of the tactics of the people who speak the truth, like the makers of The Book of Mormon on Broadway. I agree with the critcis. We should poke fun at stupid ideas.
That's great that you disagree with my tactics, because Richard Dawkins and Sam Harris agree with me, not you.
I'm in great company.
You're not.
It's not time to be nice to people who look the other way when there's abuse going on in the Sex Cult we managed to escape.
I only speak up for those who've been silenced by this evil institution.
If you choose silence,
That's your choice.
Not mine.
I choose to excercise my freedom of speech to speak out to protect others from this abusive Sex Cult that forces its members to sing praises to a creep no better than Warren Jeffs.
That normalizes rape culture, sexism, and homophobia, all at once.
Congratulations on choosing to be nice to enablers of sex abuse. That's a really responsible choice.
So far it hasn't worked with Mormons.
I've cost the abusive Sex Cult of Joseph's Myth millions for their abuse and and I've got proof of plenty more.
And its ongoing, as is the cover up.
What the fuck have you done?
Except tell the whistle blowers to remain silent!
Uh bite me.



Edited 6 time(s). Last edit at 12/03/2016 11:08PM by koriwhore.

"Uh bite me?"

You do yourself no favors, Kori.

I'm glad cowards like you don't agree with me.
If you want me to remain silent, you can go pound salt.
with all the other enablers.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/04/2016 12:34AM by koriwhore.

You don't know a thing about me, you buffoon.

I just know you're criticizing me for me criticizing Mormons, who enabled the abuse of my friends and family. That makes you enemy #2 in my book, a coward who won't stand up for what's right.
Enemy #1 is those evil bastards you're protecting by manipulating whistle blowers, like me into silence.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 12/04/2016 12:46AM by koriwhore.

No, I am criticizing you for strengthening the church and driving people back into it, for your remarkable and Pyrrhic self-indulgence. I am expressing regret at your lack of introspection and inability to engage in civil discourse.

You're affraid I'm strengthening the church by asking questions?
But not nearly as affraid of the 90,000 Cult Brainwashers out there recruiting every day going door to door to convince people to sing the praises of a child rapist?
And to carry around pornographic pictures of God sporting a hard on?
And I'm somehow the bad guy here because I point it out the obvious to them?
I do it out of empathy for them.
I wish somebody had pointed out those things sooner to me.
But they were all like you,
too polite to bring up things like rape, and erections in the same sentence.
Either that or just plain cowards, too afraid of the social costs of speaking the truth.
I'm not.
I got nothing to lose.

Yeah, earlier tonight you said you make no claims to be an effective foe of the church. Yet in our latest exchanges you have--again--made essentially that claim multiple times.

But more importantly, let's be frank: you are not doing this out of empathy for Mormons. You get offended when anyone asks you to step back and think about your actions; you rage, you curse, you belittle. This is about you and your anger.

I entirely understand and respect that anger. You say, "I got nothing to lose." I sincerely hope that is not the case both for you personally and because that sense of futility inclines a person to act out of rage rather than reflection and strategy. Empathy would dictate a rational course of action, one aimed at the goal of weakening the church and helping as many members as possible rather than playing into the church's hands by doing exactly what the Q15 says we ex-Mormons do.

WHat's that ask honest answers and expect real answers?
So you're doing the bidding of the Q15 now, who refuse to answer questions?
Say what you will, I don't really care.
Like I said, You're my 2nd worst enemy, by demanding my silence, you're enabling the offenders. Don't you get it?
They should be exposed, everywhere they pop up, on social media, on the internet, in newpaper columns, they should be asked the obvious questions.
But people like you don't want people like me asking Mormons questions. You'd much rather the 90,000 Doomsday Sex Cult recruiters go unchallenged, because you want to give them milk and cookies instead of asking them serious questions.
Go for it.
I don't tell you not to give them milk and cookies instead of the truth.
So why are you telling me to not give them the truth and instead, just give them milk and cookies when they show up to my door trying to convince me and my family to buy Joseph's Abusive Myth?

Nope, Kori. I am not telling you to be silent. I wish you could grasp that.

You're just trying to manipulate me into silence by arguing that I'm a buffoon and just what the Bretheren warn MOrmons against becoming like.
I'd say I'd rather be what your revered Bretheren say I am, than a GD coward, who wont speak the truth if you had a mouth full of it.
Or like the Cowards who refuse to answer questions, who you protect by attacking me and expecting me to serve Missionaries milk and cookies and wipe their asses for them instead of asking them serious adult questions about the abusive CULT they're representing.

I'm not your enemy and you are not mine. We should agree on that much at least.

No. You chose to be my enemy when you accused me of being what the Brethren warned MORmONS of becoming.
If that's your paradigm, you're still stuck in a Mormon cult think mindset.
Who gives a flying fuck what a bunch of old lying sacks of shit in the Ivory Tower in SLC have to say about ExMormons?
I don't.
I could care less if all the old liars keeled over at once.
They're a pack of liars who defend child rape and singing praises to the guy who 'married other men's wives' as if that were ever sanctioned by God or man.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/04/2016 03:22AM by koriwhore.

I never "claimed that I was an effective foe" of the MORmON Crutch.
WTF?
I never even aspired to be an "effective foe" of the abusive sex CULT I was unfortunately born into.
I just wanted to get my kids free and clear of the abusive Doomsday Sex Cult I was born into, unfortunately, but it's an ongoing battle, since half of my family is MORmONs. They can't stand me and I pitty them.
The rest of us party like rockstars. Fuck 'em.
But I did volunteer my testimony on behalf of all the kids I knew who were abused by the Doomsday Sex CULT of Joseph's Myth.
And they did settle for Millions of Dollars and are experiencing Zero Pain at the moment, retired, living the life, thanks the the evil fucking bastards who looked the other way when they were being raped.
So I'd count that as a victory.
Want Proof.
Just ask.
I doubt this forum will allow it.

"Richard Williams, said people who make such claims often have an incomplete or simplified image of the church."

Translation: Yeah, those who doubt and question are simple minded, they ain't Mormon smart and church broke like us is.

The only peace I can get when considering the fraud that the church is, comes from my own resolve. That resolve is not perfect. I am still working on that. But If I were still a member and resigning just now, I would handle things very differently then I did then, over twenty-five years ago. My resolve tells me that I have zero influence in what they think about their cult, and what they think of me for leaving it. All that matters is how I judge myself. If I were resigning today, I would just send the resignation letter with strong leagal wording, and then set clear personal boundries with those who I know, and use whatever legal remedies are available for those who violate my boundries. I wouldn't debate doctrine, or listen to anyone who wants to persuade me to stay. If you don't give them a fight that is framed within their own rules and paradigms, and all you want is to leave, there isn't any fight to be had. Let them think what they want.

To be a mormon you must go over, under, around, and through reality.

You are a true Internet warrior, Dave. A beacon of truth and deep thinking. You bring honor to RFM with your posts.

https://kiwifarms.net/attachments/o5ufx2p-png.55132/

Your mom must be so proud having you live in her basement.