According to the Indian Constitution, which is an incredible document if anyone is curious, people have the right to convert to the religion of their choice. But they do not have the right to entice others to change their choice of religion for any kind of reward, even if the rewards are hypothetical and in the hereafter. People are free to exercise their religion and discuss it with anyone, but proselytizing is actually seen as invasive to a person's privacy. So if someone tries to force their religion on someone else, the law has a lot of power to step in and prevent them from doing it.

You see, it is possible to learn from ages of senseless religious violence. India can do it, and now it's our turn.

To be quite honest, I'm getting tired of hearing so much about freedom of religion. I've dropped it from the list of rights that we call "human rights" in my own teaching. It is merely one of many possiblilities existing in the more fundamental human right that we call "the right to liberty." That is one that I will still call a "human right." But let's keep our liberties in perspective. That is my ever-present reminder that too much liberty is always possible and always a threat too. It has to be equally balanced for all. That is where the principle of justice comes in. If one liberty supercedes another, our commitment as a "just" society forces us to bring things back into balance.

When I give a lecture about human rights, I explain that what counts as a human right can only be something vital and indispensible to everyone, and therefore universalizable. In short, we can fit our theory of human rights to any human being on earth. That's the whole idea. Good philosophy has a sort of viral quality, so keeping a theory adaptable to diverse situations is what makes a philosopher's work successful. After all, hardly anyone ever got rich or famous doing philosophy while they were still alive. We have to create something that will outlive us.

I guess it's time for me to start a blog or something. I've been working on a whole theory of justice together for years that will take into consideration the threat that religion poses to people's human rights. We already have a lot of discussion about other forms of tyranny like fascism. Why should religion get a pass? To be quite honest, I'm not going to give it a pass. There's nothing special about religion that makes it unquestionable. We routinely question religions with respect to each other, why not question the whole idea of whether religion is any good in the first place!

Ok, I'll tone it down a little, but I'm serious about this. If somebody's religion is causing harm, however indirect, to anyone's human rights, we should not tolerate it for a minute. And if anyone can understand the potential harm that religion poses, it's an exmo.

This is for the child-brides of polygamy and anyone else who has had their rights stripped away in the name of God. And Bapu.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/23/2010 02:54AM by Troy.

Think about the mess that India has had to deal with thanks to religious violence. There is a whole class of society that has been denied recognition as human beings, all because of religion. They are the untouchables. The framers of the Indian Constitution were adamant about eliminating untouchability. Again, it's a fascinating document that is rich in historical importance. And it's online, of course. I don't have a link; you'll have to google it.

It's not that we have to adopt the Indian Constitution. We have our own and we can make it work the same way. We just have to put our minds to it. I've put my mind to it. Who's next?

India has produced two religions that are strictly and unquestionably committed to non-violence. They are Jainism and Buddhism, of course. Some Jains are so committed to non-violence that they won't even kill plants for food. They'll take the fruit, but not if it kills the plant. So root vegetables are not an option. We all know that Buddhism has no place whatsoever for violence and the suffering it causes. It's funny how neither of these religions has a god.

vegan cafe that doesn't use onions. It is owned by a Chinese couple. They say it kills bugs and worms when harvesting onions. But they use carrots and potatoes in their soups, so I guess onions do more damage when harvesting. Hmmm. I think they are Buddhist.

Great post!

I'd like to know more about their reasoning. I'm sure there's a long history behind their particular method.

I have to laugh at those who imagine freedom of religion means freedom from criticism. Sorry, that ain't the way it works.

I don't know the exact wording of the constitution, so "they do not have the right to entice others" seems fickle. I can understand not having the right to knock on doors, but enticing others towards the same point of view occurs.. well.. I'm trying to do it right now (even if I'm not trying to convert you to a religion).

But I agree with the rest of your post. It's not freedom of religion that matters, it's the other liberties: freedom of thought and expression, until those cause undue harm to others' freedoms.

I want to learn more about it. I've read their constitutional articles and I'm not entirely certain about it either. But I know some philosophers who are experts on the matter. I hope to spend some time working with them next year. I'll have a lot more to say about this in the future.

India is a religious shit hole despite those words in its constitution.

What those people need is some good old freedom FROM religion !

Well, go ahead and tell a billion people to give up Hinduism. Tell me how that works for you. I don't need to consult an astrologer to know that this approach is pointless. Count me out.

Some missionaries recently told me that Indian has just been opened up for them. Is this true? If so, doesn't it violate the constitution?

They could potentially get into a lot of trouble just by proclaiming the rewards of an afterlife as an enticement to convert people. I don't think the issue is being pressed that much these days, but it could and certain philosophers over there are doing just that. I really don't know how Mormon missionaries deal with this problem, or if they're even aware of it. Most people in India are probably about as well-versed in their constitution as Americans are, which is a level slightly above awareness that it even exists.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/23/2010 06:48PM by Troy.

A guy I went high school with is the president of the New Dehli mission--I wonder how they bend the rules over there?

I'm probably going to be living in India for a while. I'm intensely curious about this because I want to put some reins on religion in this country. Dave the Atheist may criticize India as a religious shit-hole, but is the US any better? Give me a break! Christians are every bit as wacky as Hindus in their metaphysics. Perhaps wackier.

Taking into consideration the fact that the drinking of Tes is as much if not more a part of their culture as ours, I'd be quite certain conversion rates in India are low to nonexistant.

As Dave the Atheist pointed out: Freedom FROM religion is a goal humanity should be aiming for.

Drinking of TEA, not 'Tes'

We just have to have a reasonable means. But when it comes to toleration of atheism, our own society is just about the worst thing on earth. In Hinduism, believing in the existence of some god is nothing to be rewarded for. It's just something people do. It's possible to be atheist and Hindu at the same time, but just try that in a Christian denomination!

Mormon missionaries have got a big problem on their hands if they want to tell Hindus that they can't be Hindu anymore if they convert to Mormonism. In the Hindu worldview, that isn't even comprehensible. It would be like me moving to France and saying that since I live there now, I'm no longer an American. One does not convert away from Hinduism like we can change religion in the west. It would be like changing one's native language. I recommend reading the works of Gora if anyone is curious about an atheist intellectual who came from the Brahmin caste. Here's his wiki link:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goparaju_Ramachandra_Rao



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/23/2010 06:44PM by Troy.