Who do you give them to in Heaven and why are they required? I never went through the temple,but I am aware of the signs and tokens and since no one else will discuss temple matters I have come here.

Joseph copied the Masononic temple rituals and anything else he could copy from them since he was "Master Copier Extraordinaire."

The Masons had secret handshakes and so now the Mormons have them. The Masons I believe use them in their temples to establish hierarchy. I believe Joseph jazzed it up a bit by making them necessary to get into the CK. You gotta have a gimmick. That is lesson number one and Joe knew it very well.

It's like little boys playing games with secret codes and magic words.

Just think what the temple ritual would be like if Joseph Smith had joined a bowling league instead of the Masons......


Strike not secret.

Eight year olds, Dude.

I would still be in just for the shoes and shirts

My understanding was that the handshakes were not symbolic, but literal. There would actually be a veil or portal at the CK entrance where you had to demonstrate that you knew them, or no entry; if not, there would be no point to learning them in the first place.

At the temple veil, before you were admitted you also had to give the officiant the "five points of fellowship" while giving the Sure Sign of the Nail:

Instep to instep
Knee to knee
Breast to breast
Right hand to back (reaching around through a hole in the veil)
Mouth to cheek/ear (whispering "health in the navel" etc)

Again, this was understood to be practice for something that would actually, literally happen one day. The five points were removed at the same time as the penalties, for the same reasons (too disturbing and weird).

As to your dance partner when it supposedly counted? Never fully explained. Most said Jesus (2 Nephi 9:41), but others insisted on Joseph Smith. Doesn't matter any more, does it?

"Right hand to back"

Oops, that should be "Left hand to back." The right hand was busy with the sure sign.

Sorry about that. It was 37 years ago for me.

to be much worse than the washing and anointing. Some old guy with bad breath feeling me up is what it felt like. I had no idea what he looked like and when I did see him (the few times I went), he was usually someone I wouldn't want touching me.

If you need the ridiculousness of the signs and tokens in the temple, I want no part of the CK (as if it exists). The temple was not only disappointment, but hideous.

"Your endowment is, to receive all those ordinances in the House of the Lord, which are necessary for you, after you have departed this life, to enable you to walk back to the presence of the Father, passing the angels who stand as sentinels, being enabled to give them the key words, the signs and tokens, pertaining to the Holy Priesthood, and gain your eternal exaltation in spite of earth and hell." (Journal of Discourses 2:31).

That idea of having to give the signs and tokens to "sentinels" along the way to the CK was also reiterated in the temple.

On my first temple trip, I wondered why an all-knowing "god" would require me to give secret handshakes and passwords to get into heaven -- wouldn't "god" already know it was me, and that I'd done the temple stuff, without "testing?"

Crack went the shelf.

Yeah, no kidding!

The tokens and secret handshakes were intended to be taken as being literal. If you learned them, you could use them as secret keys to get in to the celestial kingdom. So you had to keep going back to the temple to memorize them, so that you could go by memory, to get in to the celestial kingdom after you die. Of course, you can't keep going back to the temple unless you're a tithe payer. It was just a scam to get your money.

I had a now deceased drinking buddy who was a 33rd degree Mason and 86 when we met. He showed me their secret handshake and said it was so if you got a flat tire or something in a strange town you could maybe get a discount if the mechanic was also a Mason and you could identify each other.
The handshake was the sure sign of the nail.
Hope I haven't offended any Masons here...

I actually saw an old guy introduce himself with a handshake and the sign of the nail. DH didn't react at all (although he had, himself, been a temple worker years before.)

When I asked him about it after church, DH said "Did he? Really? You mean people besides Mormons know this stuff?" No wonder he didn't react. He probably didn't there was any meaning in what the old guy was doing.

It's called "The Sure Sign of Getting Nailed."

As far as I can tell, there is no point at which these tokens will be required. When we die (according to the church) we go to the spirit world. The spirit world is not he celestial kingdom, so you wouldn't need them there. We wait in the spirit world for the resurrection. When we are resurrected we will have our perfect celestial body, but hat happens on Earth. I don't think they had a chance to think this one through before Joseph Smith was killed.

Xlnt point, slayermeg'!

The worse part for the really faithful TBM's is that they'll *still* have callings even when they're dead--from 'Gospel Fundamentals': "Our Father in Heaven’s prophets have told us that missionaries will be sent from among the righteous in the spirit world to teach the gospel to all the spirits of the dead people. Many will accept the gospel and repent."

That sucks for non-mo's because there are no front doors to slam in the Spirit World.

Of course, to get back to the OP "handshakes" question, 'GF' also seems to make the signs and tokens redundant because: "Jesus loves us very much, but He is a just judge and must judge us by the kind of lives we lived. All we have thought or said or done is recorded, both in our minds and in records that have been kept. Jesus knows all of our deeds, and when we stand before Him we will remember them, too."
So if Jesus knows every time we jerked off, or made fun of Donny Osmond's purple socks, or felt our girlfriend's boobs, then he can certainly tell those sentinel angels if we're good to go or not without a stupid handshake--maybe it's just more busy work for the angels.....

Xlnt point, slayermeg'!

The worse part for the really faithful TBM's is that they'll *still* have callings even when they're dead--from 'Gospel Fundamentals': "Our Father in Heaven’s prophets have told us that missionaries will be sent from among the righteous in the spirit world to teach the gospel to all the spirits of the dead people. Many will accept the gospel and repent."

That sucks for non-mo's because there are no front doors to slam in the Spirit World.

Anyway, to get back to the OP "handshakes" question, 'GF' also seems to make the signs and tokens redundant because: "Jesus loves us very much, but He is a just judge and must judge us by the kind of lives we lived. All we have thought or said or done is recorded, both in our minds and in records that have been kept. Jesus knows all of our deeds, and when we stand before Him we will remember them, too."
So if Jesus knows every time we jerked off, or made fun of Donny Osmond's purple socks, or felt our girlfriend's boobs, then he can certainly tell those sentinel angels if we're good to go or not without a stupid handshake--maybe it's just more busy work for the angels.....

Bottom line is that when Joseph Smith & Co. came up with "restored" doctrine, they were too-clever-by-half and kept adding & adding on layers that only muddled it more--I mean seriously: pre-existence, mortality, spirit world, celestial kingdom...how many times does your spirit have to get jerked around and "taught" and judged and thrown into yet another plane of existence!?

Sorry: double post. This "database connection failed" thing is driving me nuts; I guess the unedited version went through anyway!

You'll need both your garments and the handshakes to make it through the angel ghetto. If you're not wearing your colors or can't give the correct gang signs, you'll be in big trouble with the homies. That's why I plan to be buried with a few vials of crack, so I have something to trade.

When women go thru the veil... are they giving the signs/tokens to another woman?

I've been thinking about this from the perspective of Joseph Smith; a real con man of dubious nature. In part, he introduced these stolen rituals and practices as a way to slide (fool, deceive, cheat, trick, defraud, hoodwink, dupe, outwit and beguile) into heaven.

Can you imagine the smile on ole Joey's face and the chuckle he kept silent as he watched his stolen mason ideas being taken seriously by the members?

I personally think he lived for these moments and, OF COURSE, the catching of the mounting dollars as they flowed to him. I think he IMMENSELY enjoyed fooling his silly followers and could not wait to come up with his next con. He lived for these moments, and, OF COURSE, his captured maidens. Let's see....what can I pull off now?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/12/2017 12:34PM by presleynfactsrock.