Imagine you're with a church member, and the subject of religion is brought up. You care about this person and want them to realize what kind of organization they're in. You can only say so much before they tune you out and turn on their anti-mormon filters. In two sentences, what is the thing you would say to them that would most likely help them see the truth? Something about TSCC history, something philisophical, real life experience? What's the most powerful thing to say?

(I'm partially asking out of curiousity, partly because situations like this have come up with me)

Don't know if these are very powerful. I see them as possibilities:

1) It's your life. Live authentically, why settle for less?

2) God is real. Don't squander a lifetime by following false prophets or pseudo religion.

3) Want truth? The answers are all around us - seek and ye shall find.

(Reality, like life, can't really be summarized in two sentences. Maybe it's a start.)

yeah, good reply. WORDS ARE SEEDS. Think of the words as seeds.

I could say a million different sentences to my TBM family members and they wouldn't hear any of them.

Unfortunately unless the person is already doubting and asking questions they aren't going to open to hearing anything that doesn't fit with their indoctrination. So I just don't try.

BUT if it felt like they WERE questioning and open I may share how I found out about the book, 'View of the Hebrews' published 2 years before Joe Smith wrote the BoM, with the author from the same little town in NY. The LDS church owns the only 2 remaining copies, one is in the locked cases in the BYU library. I saw it in person and read it.

It was clear to me that Joe Smith copied from this work of fiction, to write the Book of Mormon.

There is SO much more wrong with the LDS 'church', esp. when one looks at the early history and the violence and treatment of women as property. BUT the most compelling physical piece of evidence to prove it's all a fraud, for me, is the existence of the book, 'View of the Hebrews'

So that's what I'd use. Since it was the most compelling evidence I found when I was questioning and is what was 'the last straw' for me, and became the deciding factor for me to leave.. I would use it to explain why I left if that came up.

But again if their shields of denial are thick enough it's almost no use.

However you can still use their own conversion tactics against them I suppose, by 'planting seeds'

So if you have enough facts gathered, you could plant different little factoid seeds now and then. Like a lot of members don't even really know that Joe Smith had more than one wife and they certainly don't know he had 33 and that some were as young as 14, or that he took other men's wives to marry, saying God told him too and as the other men were his 'disciples' they were obligated to do so, although some refused.

For me 'blood atonement' is another big scandal that had I known about it while a church member I might find my faith shaken. The fact that Brigham Young preached this 'doctrine' and got so many people to actually kill even their own siblings or spouses or children and anyone who left the church, by slitting their throats?

How could those men be prophets? And if they are not, than how can the rest of it be 'true'?

The members should know the truth about their organizations foundations. If they, knowing the truth, decide to stay involved, at least it will be with the understanding of the falseness of their doctrine and they won't be so blinded or able to see things as them being 'right' and everyone else being 'wrong'. :)

Anyway, it's challenging! I happened to just give a very tiny opinion to my brother who've I've been in contact with recently via emails, about our dysfunctional family and abuse when we were kids and how we are dealing with depression and anxiety now as adults.

Well I happened to just say that while I respect the family for their faith and making their own choices in that regard, I do take issue with how their church can take up too much time in callings where the parents end up not having time to properly care for their children. I said I wish more members would be okay with saying no to callings when they weren't able to handle them.

Well just saying that has pushed him away. It's been over a week and I got no response.

So yeah, it's tough alright! Their faith is so delicate actually that they cannot stand to hear ANY criticism!

I finally realized I knew how to be a good person all on my own and that if doing good doesn't come from within, rather than as an outside rule following directive, then what I am on the inside is worth nothing.

"Run Forrest, run!!"

The glory of god is intelligence-get educated about what you have gotten yourself involved with.

1) You're an idiot! (number one reason mormons leave is being offended).

2) Wanna try some coffee? (number two reason they leave is they want to sin).

:)

Hahah and ha. Yup. That just could work.

Coffee is a sin?

It's a food staple where I live (hence, is tax free.)

So I read on lds.org that when Joseph Smith restored polygamy he married more than 30 women, including about a dozen girls, one who was 14, and more than ten women already married to someone else. You're seriously OK with that?

I like to ask the missionaries about the details of the restoration of polygamy. You can preface by asking how much study they have done of Mormonism, seminary, years of attending weekly meetings, MTC, etc, so its more embarrassing if they don't know even the basic facts about the religion they're trying to sell.

If they say its not important because "it is no longer practiced" (not really true), then say its important to establish the credibility of Joseph Smith as a a real prophet, or just a charismatic preacher/personality like David Koresh.

It's not statutory rape if you call it celestial marriage.

When encountering a TBM, there is NOTHING you can do or say quickly to have them doubt, or even listen to reason.

All you can do is use their tactics against them and bear your testimony of how happy you are outside of the church, or how happy you are in your new church.

That's it.

You see... Mormons are taught from the very beginning that those who are not in the church are miserable... even those of other faiths.

Let them know how happy you are... and try to ignore the snarky reply "wickedness is never happiness".

After showing the information on the lds.org website about helen mar kimball being a few months short of her fifteenth birthday, ie, fourteen, I asked my RM brother if he would allow our current or future 'prophet' to marry his adolescent daughter, which of course he would not.

The next question he could not answer: why would you disobey the prophet?

Whatever question you ask, it is only a seed you are planting, as previous posters have pointed out, and if it takes too big a root you will become someone to avoid at all costs, so you will in effect wind up being shunned because of 'your' behaviour and not because of 'their' reaction to information you have led them to.

How much do you want to 'crash their shelf' and give them all the pain you experienced? Further, if you MUST 'crash their shelf', is it about proving that you are right and they are wrong or helping them away from deluded beliefs?

As others have already pointed out, they will only believe what they are ready to believe: tscc's lies or the glaringly obvious truth.

Just said this to the Mormon side of the family in Salt Lake

"You don't have to be Mormon to be a good Person"

To the RM just fresh off the mission.
"I've worked 40 years, raised a family and still happily married. You are a 21 year old kid that has never had a job, never been married, has not had sex if I'm to believe and you are giving me advise about life? Did I hear that correctly?"

Don't need 2 sentences. One will do:

"You will stay for the meeting of our LGBT Satanists' binge drinking group, won't you?" while giving them a "garment feel-up" ;-)

Gee, thanks. Now I have a Mormon-shaped hole in my wall.

I've wondered what I'd say to my TBM COB Singles Ward bishop brother when I just don't give a rip any more, and the only thing I've ever come up with is "So, you realize the church is a total sham, right?"

It's a violent start...

Why did TSCC teach the Adam-God Doctine for over 5 decades?
Were church members deceived for all of that time -- particularly in their temple endowment that taught Adam-God?

That member will never talk to you again. Works like a charm.

If only it was that easy.

Tell me the single most important information God told his prophet to share with his people in the last year. How about in the last 5 years -- 10 years? Why doesn't God speak to his people through his prophets if that is what makes your church the only true church?

It probably wouldn't work, but here's my best shot -- "I don't like how Joseph Smith had sex with young teenage girls (14,15, 16 years old,) wards under his care, and other men's wives. I have higher standards than that. I'm surprised that you don't."

Just my two cents.

For those you are close to you, live an authentic life and let your obvious happiness be the seed. You're not going to get anywhere by alienating those closest to you by trying to persuade them to your side. One day you'll be minding your own business and you'll get a text or call and that day you can spill the beans. Do it before that and you'll just entrench your loved one.

For people who you don't care about. Have at it.

This one gets my vote.

#1: When was the exact date and time of day that God & Jesus supposedly visited JS in the "sacred grove"?

#2: Which version of JS First Vision story is your favorite?

Those two Q's should leave a stain on their G's!

Or so it seems to me...

1. I'm sure glad I'm going to heaven and won't have a planet I have to take care of.
2. Why did the church take out the penalties for telling people about the temple. such as cutting your throat, disembowelment and cutting your body in two?

Three sentences:


"I've spent years studying biblical languages, the scriptures and history of the LDS church in depth and I've learned beyond a shadow of a doubt that it is a fraud. My testimony that it is false far exceeds any so-called testimony I once relied upon to justify staying in the church.

I can't help it if you aren't willing to do the WORK that it takes to find out that its alleged truth claims are actually false."

1) What do you know about the real Mormon church?
2) Would you like to know more?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/30/2017 11:00PM by PapaKen.

I wouldn't say anything. To me the more one protests the less I am likely to believe them.

I would show the person that I'm living a fantastic, happy, fulfilled life as a non-mormon--consistently.

Sometimes it takes years and years of living by example before you bear fruit. And sometimes you never bear fruit. But when you do, it's usually genuine and lasting.

It's happened to me and I've been on both ends of it.

I prayed about the book of mormon and found out it wasn't from God. I left religion and decided to follow only Jesus directly.

That one works well...everytime. One because they believe you have converted from them. Two because if they argue with you , you just respond what would be so wrong with following and living like Jesus? They have no response to it, and chances are they'll never be back.

#1 I'm taking my pants off.

#2 Now my boxer shorts.

We've tossed around this one here (can't remember who originated it?):

If the church were not true, would you want to know?
If so, go to the source of everything.


Or...


You're being had. Don't spend your life as a patsy.


Or...


Truth can stand scrutiny. Read No Man Knows My History and scrutinize away.

So Jesus can help a Mormon find his lost car keys, but can't/won't help starving children or stop war?

So there is only one true church, but really only a few members on a world wide basis. One would think that if its so great/true it would have spread by now. It's been over 150 years.

What really got me thinking several years back was the math:

Did you know only about 1 in 2,000 people on the earth are active LDS? There are 7 billion people on this planet and 99% of them don't know that we have a prophet that is the only person in the world authorized to speak for god...I guess god has nothing to say.

Go. Away.

Fuck.

Off.

If the OP is wondering if there's anything you can say to get a Mormon to leave the cult--the answer is no. I usually use Kaleb's sentence:

"I prayed about the book of mormon and found out it wasn't from God. I left religion and decided to follow only Jesus directly."

Debating with a Mormon is a frustrating waste of time. They don't want to hear the truth--especially coming from an apostate. I do like using their own emotional testimony-bearing technique. Religion to them is mostly about "feeling," and they can't argue with feelings. My cousin used to say, "I had a revelation that the Mormon church is not true." That has always shut-up the Mormons.


If the OP is wondering if there's anything you can say to get a Mormon to leave your presence, and leave you alone, there are a lot of things. These have worked for me:

"This conversation is over. Please leave our house."

"Leave my child alone! You are trespassing! Get out of my house, or I'll call the police!"

You can say you are so grateful all the volumes of Brigham Young's Journal of Discourses are available on the internet. The sermons provide spiritual insight into the early history and teachings of the church. Then offer to send them the link.

https://archive.org/details/JoDV01

I can remember a time when owning a set of the JoD was proof that you were one of the cool kids in Mormondumb. Members of the Stake Presidency, patriarchs, and seminary teachers all seemed to have them.

I only need one line:

1) We're out of beer


Oh, wait, that get's them to leave my home, not the church, sorry.

How about, "If there really was a mormon church, then I think I'd go there, too- the truth is, you've just been having a strange dream, I'm sure!"
Or, perhaps, "Welcome to this, a different Parallel Probable Reality- there is no "mormon church" here- and actually I don't know what you mean by that term!"

What do you know about the revelation of 1886 the commanded polygamy continue to today and would you like to know more.

"In two sentences, what is the thing you would say to them that would most likely help them see the truth?

Gee, that sounds familiar. I remember as a TBM thinking I had The Truth, and was obligated to convert others.

How about we respect each other and allow the freedom to do what we want, as long as you're not hurting anyone.

The fervency of your belief in Mormonism does not equal truth.

"Go look on the Internet to see what Egyptologists say about the accuracy of the translation of the Book of Abraham."

"Go look on the official church web site to see how many wives Joseph Smith had."

Pay Lay Ale.

My experience has been that the missionaries will leave you alone if you politely say "no thank you."

However, one time I just couldn't resist this: "What do you know about the Mountain Meadows Massacre?" The two guys hesitated and looked at each other. Finally one of them said "That wasn't authorized by Brigham Young."

I don't have an income to pay tithing on.

:D

1. I prayed like JS did but asked if Mormonism was true.

2. An answer came 'miraculously' that Mormonism was a 'money making scam'!

Actually, that usually gets 'everyone' to leave.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/16/2017 11:07PM by spiritist.