You need to supply more info. Do you mean family members and/or friends who will not accept facts about Mormonism?

Mormonism doesn't always come up in conversation but I do try tell them it's as fake as a three dollar bill and is totally made up rubbish.

Most non-Mormons really have no idea what Mormonism is and just lump it in with other groups like the Jehovah's Witnesses or Seventh-Day Adventists -- but NOT with cults like the Unification Church (Moonies) or the Scientologists.

anybody Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Most non-Mormons really have no idea what
> Mormonism is and just lump it in with other groups
> like the Jehovah's Witnesses or Seventh-Day
> Adventists -- but NOT with cults like the
> Unification Church (Moonies) or the
> Scientologists.

http://christiananswers.net/q-aiia/aiia-top10cults.html

Not always :)
Look at what this christian site calls the #1 most destructive cult...

It looks like something put together 1975-1985. Kiddie-molesting Children of God disappeared to South America long time ago. Boston Church of Christ ("Crossroads Movement") dropped their cultic "shepherding" oversight of members a long time ago. Sun Myung Moon is dead, with very little left of his organization in North America. I do think that LDS as an institution is still the #1 cult in North America, followed by JW's, but even Scientology is in serious decline as far as new members going.

BTW, I was surprised to see two misshies canvassing my neighborhood last week. I live in a student neighborhood, which makes sense, but I haven't seen LDS out ringing doorbells for quite a while. We set up a date, and I bought them fruit smoothies at a gourmet ice cream place nearby. We had a pleasant, non-confrontational visit, mostly on my book and Utah. I'll invite them out again soon.

caffiend Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It looks like something put together 1975-1985.

Could be.
I was simply using it to counter the idea that mormonism isn't linked in with those other uber-cults. It often is, and has been for a long time (longer if that article IS dated!). :)

> BTW, I was surprised to see two misshies
> canvassing my neighborhood last week. I live in a
> student neighborhood, which makes sense, but I
> haven't seen LDS out ringing doorbells for quite a
> while. We set up a date, and I bought them fruit
> smoothies at a gourmet ice cream place nearby. We
> had a pleasant, non-confrontational visit, mostly
> on my book and Utah. I'll invite them out again
> soon.

I would have loved that kind of visit when I was a mishie. There was one ex-pat English couple living in France that invited us in, immediately saying they knew all about the church and wanted no part of it, they just thought we'd like to speak English for a bit...and hey, would you guys like to go to a nice restaurant dinner? They were great. And about the only ones in two years that did anything similar.

Thanks for being nice to these ignorant kids. :)

I must have missed something.

Your book, Caffiend?

I suspect many people in the cult really don't care. But I think lots of people do, especially young people do care about truth claims especially because the old boys at the top are making the rules of the church are becoming more arduous (cleaning churches, grimmer rules for MIssionaries, more pressure on males to be MIssionaries, more pressure to marry right after missions).

I think teens who have doubts know how to use the Internet to check out the facts and will give serious consideration to the idea that living the harsh and restrictive rules of the church are too much to ask when the truth claims of themchurch is false.

Did you ever hear that argument the TBMs use sometimes? The missionaries I used to work with used it a lot.

"You have nothing to lose by being Mormon. If it turns out to be true, then you have made it to the Celestial Kingdom. If it turns out not to be true, then Mormonism has still given you the best life ever because it's a wonderful, family oriented way of life with high moral values."

The details changed sometimes, but being Mormon was always presented as a win/win situation.

The big problem is that Mormonism does not give. The anti-depressant siege is proof enough, but check out the lives of the frustrated women, and gays who are shunned or killing themselves, and even the men under such pressure, giving up their family time for inane, busy work callings and subject to the pressure to move up in the ranks.

It's a lose/lose situation. The Mormon church offers the equivalent of a spiritual and mental lobotomy with a large dose of bigotry, arrogance, and servitude in this life. But the biggest losing situation of all is if the CK actually turned out to be true. Just the same old obedient, egomaniac worshipping Mormonism ramped up on steroids going on, and on and on forever with no end in sight.

No. Many don't care if it is true. They are so busy parroting their leaders as to what a wonderful life it is, they haven't stopped to notice it isn't at all.

What do you mean we haven't stopped to notice it isn't at all true?

One of the wondrous teachings in Church that we essentially learn is that our loving Heavenly Father has a very loving 24/7 surveillance program on all of our thoughts/actions which means that if I ever spend even a millisecond thinking about whether the Church could be anything but true then I could be fried at Judgment day.

Thus I suppose I should spend my time focusing on what the Brethren teach us to do, such as being more exactly obedient to them. Another thing I can do is be more missionary-minded. This means spreading the good news that the Church is true, i.e. that it is the most honest and transparent organization ever :) If its true then it means that when the most honest-in-heart investigators will research everything thoroughly they'll first conclude "gosh - what a super honest and transparent Church" as they pore over all the up-to-date very transparent financial, statistical, and historical reports/essays at lds.org & get all their questions answers with complete honesty by the online missionaries :)

I stand corrected.

Not to mention the misogyny, latent racism, nonsensical dietary rules, meaningless offices, titles, and positions, graft and corruption, etc, etc



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/08/2017 01:32PM by anybody.

I hear lots of negative opinions about the Mormon church from people. I rarely tell people I meet of my Mormon upbringing, so I get to hear unfiltered comments. The harshest comments are always from evangelical Christians, but even some of my non-religious friends/acquaintances have nasty opinions about tssc.

When I first started dating my now DH, his mother told him he could do better once she found out about my Mormon upbringing. He also had an aunt on his dads side that was terrified that I would convert him. These are all non-religious people.

I think there are enough people like the ones I've mentioned that have strong negative opinions about Mormonism that keep conversion low. It's the generational Mormons that keep pumping out lots of kids and indoctrinating them that keep it all going. My TBM neighbor has 7 kids. She is one of 12 and each of her siblings has a lot of kids as well. They are a prime example. The husband is my age yet looks a good 10 years older because he is run ragged trying to support this huge family, taking care of the kids while wife is off on another vacation without him, and countless church 'responsibilities'. I know he does it by choice, but I sure do have some empathy for him.

I could definitely lump my parents in with the group that doesn't care if it's fake or not. They are so tied to the culture that they know nothing else. Total Mormon bubble.

Any Mormon dogmatic claims.

Perhaps non mormons consider mormons as a historic culture
Or perhaps as a religious group with historic and current characteristics the same as the anabaptists, Scientology, shakers, Amish, jehovah witnesses or the old catholic missions invading when Spain settled California with remnant church buildings scattered now as historic sites.

No one believes the mormons dogma or self marketing pioneer veneer sales packages- they see it from the outside. It's like National Geographic or BBC news articles on another country with interesting photographs of another places people. They report on that civilizations apparent circumstances and may not report the people's rationale but report on the lifestyle pictured visibly. This is how outsiders see other distinct cultures , try to be polite about it. But you can't be that culture you just see it from outside, like a tourist. The local... locals may try but they can't write the tourist guide book. Locals can't step out if their own culture dogma bias to themselves and effectively write a tourism guide for outsiders who view them as an object of curiousity

Tourists who try to be curious respectful but still view mormons Mormon culture as well an object of curiosity like BBC news articles and National Geographic magazine articles on distinct cultures that are just scattered around in humanity.

No body has to believe just enjoy the articles and screenshots on BBC or National Geographic about the people on the planet make up humanity. They're all different. People are all different. Only locals believe the lies they told they live their lives. The rest of us are watching on BBC tv and National Geographic as we live our lives and believe different things.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/08/2017 01:26PM by paintinginthewin.

"The rest of us are watching on BBC tv and National Geographic as we live our lives and believe different things."

I love this analogy, Paintinginthewin!

It has taken me over 5 years to achieve this level of detachment. I think this is a healthy point of view--to be on the outside looking into Mormonism, in a more non-judgmental way, and definitely keeping my distance.

Even at a safe distance, it still hurts to stand by, helplessly, and watch parts of my family being lied to, robbed, used, and treated like dirt.

I CARE--a lot of us care that Mormonism is fake--but there is very little we can do to help the Mormons who DO NOT CARE.

I think FEAR overrides reason, with the younger Mormons who know it is a hoax. My daughter doesn't even believe in God, but she is a faithful Mormon out of FEAR that her Mormon husband would leave her and take the children away, if she doesn't comply.

And--my daughter is right. Her TBM husband would probably leave her, and his whole TBM family would abandon her as well.

What a nasty, evil cult.

At least there is one person! Are you related to this "Nobody" of whom you speak? Just curious, you have similar names you know ;)

It sure mattered to me and my family. We are out. Donate to CES and Mormon think.

I think it matters to a lot of people: all those who could have become Mormons but didn't (as well as all exmos of course).

Tom in Paris

about convincing others it's fake? Is it because you are trying to save these poor lemmings (who you-presumably-don't/barely know personally) or are you not quite certain yourself and feel as if others are also on board you'll feel better about committing to your own renunciation of TSCC?

I have been a vegan for 12 years. Yes, I want everyone in the world to be a vegan too. But I realized long ago that it was folly for me to try to convince others. If asked, I'll provide information. Otherwise, people ARE going to live their own lives, regardless of how much I try to convince (or do I mean control?) them.

That said, I think when it comes to religion, we usually way underestimate how many people are "practicing" because they want a social life. Who am I to say that isn't ok? So yes, I think many just don't care about how many people JS,Jr. fvcked or how old they were or how married they were.

Telling nonreligious or religious people not affiliated with mormonism that the Mormon church is a fraud is like telling a normal adult that there is no Santa Claus or that the earth is not flat. Well duh, of course there's no Santa Claus and the earth is not flat - why state the obvious? Just because you finally figured it out doesn't mean that others who never fell for religious nonsense will understand your feelings or sympathize with you; the'll probably think you're an idiot for believing in the Mormon church in the first place.

It's best to only share your experience as a Mormon with other exmos. No one else will get it. I've tried to explain what it was like being a Mormon to nevermos and it just doesn't compute. I end up sounding weird and alienate people even though I'm now exmo. It's almost like telling a friend that you once believed in goblins and fairies, and even spent two years of your life trying to convince people to believe in them because you thought they were true. Now you know they don't exists, aren't you smart! They'll think you're a nut.

It's a great cover for them and enables the Brethren to get away with all manner of things.

There's a difference between an organically evolved religion and something that was started as a flat out fraud like Mormonism.

Mormonism isn't going away any time soon. It's got to be the most successful long-term fraud in history.

Truth isn't going to destroy Mormonism.

Only disillusioned believers taking it down from the inside will.

In part, Honest TBM said:

"This means spreading the good news that the Church is true, i.e. that it is the most honest and transparent organization ever :) If its true then it means that when the most honest-in-heart investigators will research everything thoroughly they'll first conclude "gosh - what a super honest and transparent Church" as they pore over all the up-to-date very transparent financial, statistical, and historical reports/essays at lds.org & get all their questions answers with complete honesty by the online missionaries :)"

Transparent financial reports/essays? Hahahaha....what a load of crap!

"HonestTBM" isn't an honestTBM.
It's sarcasm.

Done & Done's words resonated with me having recently spent time at a TBM home. The Mormon rat wheel spins with the endless assignments of what must be done and what is allowed to be done. OMG, can they really find happy with this existence?

I am so beyond comprehending how happiness exists in this mind-numbing bubble reeking of fraud, of deceit, and greed that I find my responses soaring from anger to tears to laughter.

There is an subtle problem with your statement. Using totality words like: "nobody" is an immediate opening for conflicting views. Everyone, nobody, everybody, etc. are always going to be words that cause some concern as it is extremely rare that they could possibly be correct.

Now, onto the implied question. The people I come in contact with are not interested in whether I believe that Mormonism is fake. That is more likely accurate and true.

Religion is a free choice in our Constitution with some safe guards. It's a right of our freedom.
As such, anything someone wishes to believe as a religion, no matter how loosely defined, is still a right of our freedom.

With that right in mind, I take the position that religion is a personal choice and a right. As such, people can practice their religion as they choose or change their mind.

I recognize Mormonism as a religion as that is how it is constructed. The US government also recognizes it as a religion. that makes it a factual religion. Not fake, actually a real religion.

What "nobody" much cares about, most often, is other people's negative opinion of their belief systems. In most cases, I would find it very rude and inappropriate to intrude with critical comments about someone's person choice about their religious beliefs.

On the other hand, if I am asked about my religious beliefs, I will share my opinion, hopefully in a way that is respectful and grants the same rights to others as I would want in return.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/08/2017 05:24PM by SusieQ#1.

Some don't want to know. I had two long time BIC members tell me that if the church isn't true they wouldn't want to find it out.

I guess some find belief more inspiring than the truth.

Hie, you and Amyjo have both reminded me recently of Honest TBM's supposed 'sarcasm' or 'parody'. However, in a recent post, Honest TBM made it very clear that that is not the case regarding his/her posts. I will use the search function to see if I can locate said post,

Likely that was parody also.

I'm not sure that I care either.

Mormonism has no value to me even if it were the "true" church. I suspect that many believers feel that it has value to them even if it were fake.

The real travesty of Mormonism isn't that it is false. But that it fosters unethical/questionable behavior.

Granted, it's not hard to see the unprincipled actions from my perspective since I know it is a farce. I simply think that the farce is the less disturbing issue here.

Sure, but if God is telling you what to do, you don't need ethics.

" . . .if God is telling you what to do, you don't need ethics."

That should be embroidered on throw pillows and given to everyone.

What is the point of even being here if God is telling you what to do and solving your problems. what is any Mormon learning if that is the case?

The only caring I have is whenever my wife, the missionaries she invites over for dinner, or some busybody in the ward gets it in their head that it's time to make another run at converting me. And then, the only question is whether I hold my tongue to keep the peace at home, or unload on whomever is proselytizing me with the expectation that I'll be sleeping on the couch.

I have learned quite a bit of Mormon history since marrying my wife; mostly to ward off countless attempts to convert me, but also out of curiosity to figure out how the eff so many people can fall for something that is so obviously fake.

I've tried explaining Mormonism to my nevermo family since marrying my TBM wife, but it means nothing to them since they haven't seen it up close and personal. All they know or understand is that my wife belongs to a pseudo-fundamentalist church with a reputation for "wholesomeness". My wife embodies that stereotype in my family's eyes; so they have no need or interest to look any further.