It was on Both national & local news again tonite, including an interview with Alex W.

I hope that some ppl who see it Connect the Dots regarding the male-Dominated LDS/ IMW culture..

This is a Perfect slap-in-the-face to Mormonism.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 09/04/2017 09:55PM by GNPE.

It has recieved international attention in Britain and other anglo countries.Does mormonism play a role in this,or could this play out easily elsewhere?

Do we even know if the guy is a Mormon? Even if he is, that may not be a contributing factor. Many cops abuse their power every day and most of them arent Mormon.

That's what I was wondering. I don't think anyone watching the video would assume that the guy is Mormon.

It was my first thought. Followed by, of course I could be wrong.

Wrong place.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/10/2017 01:36PM by Dorothy.

It was his lieutenant who told him to arrest her. But anyway, he lost his part time ambulance driving job and he's on paid leave from his roughing people up job.

Update: https://www.aol.com/article/news/2017/09/05/utah-cop-who-arrested-nurse-over-blood-draw-fired-from-second-job/23198155/

He had a second job as an ambulance driver. Fired.

NOTE: Police will no longer interface with nurses. Supervisors only.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/05/2017 11:39PM by SusieQ#1.

SusieQ#1 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
> NOTE: Police will no longer interface with nurses.
> Supervisors only.

As long as the administrators know the policies as well as this nurse does and advocate for patients to the degree that she did, this is great. Nurses are there to care for patients or to supervise and coordinate patient care. Even charge nurses shouldn't have to be taken away from their duties to deal with thugs or procedural nonsense.

From the chatter I've been getting on my FB feed from Mormons that haven't unfriended me due to my "apostate" status; she was Mormon, and apparently he wasn't. All I know is she is a hero in my book. If it was left up to "supervisors", then we probably wouldn't be having this thread, because we wouldn't know anything about it.

I think some of us are way too quick to blame bad behavior on Mormons and this thread seems to bear that out. When I was a college student, I went clothes shopping with two girls from my dorm.One was Mormon and one was atheist. A sales lady treated us rudely for no reason.My Mormon friend thought it was because she wasnt a Mormon and my non Mormon friend thought it was because she WAS a Mormon. I just thought she was a jerk and I have no idea what her religious beliefs were.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/06/2017 01:01AM by bona dea.

I agree, too many times we try to put Mormonism as the reason for all bad behavior. This had nothing to do with religion.

The police can't compel you to do anything to assist them in their jobs. Police can only stop crimes and arrest those who commit crimes. If the police see you on the street and you yourself are not a suspect nor at risk of some imminent danger or disruption to public order, the police can not issue you any order that you must follow. This nurse was and is a free person with lawful rights to prevent her from being compelled by anyone to do anything that she chooses not to do, and with no need to justify her actions or lack of cooperation as long as she does not violate real statutes. Her only duties as a medical professional were to her employer and to her patients. She doesn't even have to justify any lack of complying with the officer's illegal orders. I am usually with the police. But they were wrong on this one. The police supervisor who ordered the arrest should get fired too. How could he not know that his orders were illegal?

Agreed with all that. And I'd add that the Supreme Court ruled in "Missouri v. McNeely" and "Birchfield v. North Dakota" that drawing blood without consent or a search warrant, even if the suspect is under arrest (which the driver was not), is a violation of the Fourth Amendment.

About the only legal leg the two cops to stand on are that some states, and Utah is one of them, require CDL holders to comply with drug/alcohol testing in the wake of an accident. It could be argued that that was the consent from the badly injured big rig driver.

All that said, the incident was bullshit. It was fairly obvious they were engaging in CYA after a high speed chase went wrong. The two cops need to be canned and lose their retirement benefits. Criminal prosecution could be on the table too, but I doubt it is going to happen.

azsteve Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The police can't compel you to do anything to
> assist them in their jobs.

They can't exactly compel you, but they can issue you a misdemeanor citation for not helping out, at least in AZ anyway. From ARS 13-2403:

A. A person commits refusing to aid a peace officer if, upon a reasonable command by a person reasonably known to be a peace officer, such person knowingly refuses or fails to aid such peace officer in:

1. Effectuating or securing an arrest; or

2. Preventing the commission by another of any offense.

My observation is this. the collision happened In Cache Valley outside of SLC police jurisdiction. A warrant for blood would have to be from that jurisdictional area.(why would a cop give a rats ass in regard to some other police agency request for a blood draw. hospitals routinely do a "tox" screen" this is easy to subpoena if necessary (based on pc). the cop moon lights as a paramedic (ambulance driver) I am sure that the nurse and cop know each other rather well from the cop working for gold cross bringing patients to the ER. calling a paramedic an ambulance driver pisses them off..... try it sometime. (makes me think of South Park "respect ma authoritah"The SLPD officer executed exceptionally poor judgment in regards to having a tantrum and using poor judgement makes an arrest. It makes me wonder if the root cause of this was a tired overworked cop/paramedic. Two other officers were there and did nothing to stop an illegal arrest. Why didn't they intervene? Malfeasance? misfeasance, nonfeasance what the hell? Jesus! SLPD get your shit together!!!! I don't live in the state of Utah. I have to hand it to the nurse. At this point she isn't after any money, she wants to fix a problem.

Amen 64monkey

Amen 64monkey

When I was a paramedic in Los Angeles I worked along side the police. the police have a very over aggressive personality which prevented me from ever wanting to be their friend away from work. Good or bad cops, they all seem to carry a big ego and chip on their shoulder.
So this isn't to O/T you don't have to be Mormon to be a dick.

Nurses deserve better.

Nothing wrong with discussing if church culture might have influenced this incident. That's what we do on RfM.

Police officers I've met are not mean or unfairly aggressive. The profession deserves cooperation and respect just as the nurses do.

Sad when individuals in a job slot overstep their authority but it isn't a reflection on all or most who do that job.

https://www.eastidahonews.com/2017/09/rigby-police-chief-thanks-nurse-for-standing-firm-in-protecting-officers-rights/

It seems the truck driver was a reserve officer with the Rigby Police Department.

The cop who tried to draw blood from the unconscious victim ought to be given the same treatment he gave that nurse.

The Rigby article says he's still on active duty. I read elsewhere he was put on paid administrative leave.

Amyjo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The cop who tried to draw blood from the
> unconscious victim ought to be given the same
> treatment he gave that nurse.
>
> The Rigby article says he's still on active duty.
> I read elsewhere he was put on paid administrative
> leave.

Where in the Rigby article does it even mention "active duty." The article is not about the power abusing cop in Utah. It's a big thank you from the Police Chief to the nurse who protected his reserve officer from the cop.

It's in the video.

You say "The article is not about the power abusing cop in Utah. It's a big thank you from the Police Chief to the nurse who protected his reserve officer from the cop."

It's all about the cop abusing his power. That the Rigby police is thanking the nurse for protecting one of their own from an abusive a-hole of a cop is because of a policeman going rogue.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/09/2017 10:32PM by Amyjo.

I was told thru FB that a newspaper in Logan had reported that the cop was fired from his part time EMT job with the smbulance service

He should be fired. He has no business dealing with the public as a peace officer or a paramedic. He used extremely poor judgment in his position of trust.

A $ award to the nurse would be a nice reminder to cops to only act Within the law...

just sayin'

She isn't planning on suing though, according to her own words.

She's showing much more patience and long suffering than most people would under the same circumstances (given a litigious society.)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/09/2017 10:36PM by Amyjo.

Amyjo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> She isn't planning on suing though, according to
> her own words.
>
> She's showing much more patience and long
> suffering than most people would under the same
> circumstances (given a litigious society.)


She has said that litigation isn't off the table. I hope she does sue, and I hope she gets a lot.

The way she was man handled by the police officer, without cause, and the unlawful arrest she certainly does have grounds to sue.

When she was interviewed on national news with her attorney, she indicated (initially,) she wasn't going to sue *if* the police department demonstrated it was sorry for the officer's actions, and that it takes corrective actions to make sure something like that doesn't reoccur.

Often times it takes a significant personal injury lawsuit to enforce policy changes. Her lawyer said if/when they decide to pursue legal action there are several potential plaintiffs they might sue.

The university police for one. How they could just stand around while she was being man handled with brute physical force, begs the question who the heck were they protecting?!

If she does sue she has a very good chance of recovering damages.

Amyjo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
> Often times it takes a significant personal injury
> lawsuit to enforce policy changes. Her lawyer said
> if/when they decide to pursue legal action there
> are several potential plaintiffs they might sue.
>
> The university police for one. How they could just
> stand around while she was being man handled with
> brute physical force, begs the question who the
> heck were they protecting?!
>
> If she does sue she has a very good chance of
> recovering damages.

If I were she, the University Police would be front and center in any litigation.

GNPE Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> A $ award to the nurse would be a nice reminder to
> cops to only act Within the law...
>
> just sayin'


But "within the law" is a much bigger corral for cops than for us.

Cops have (limited) immunity from prosecution, plus courts and prosecutors need their cooperation every day, so it's difficult to prosecute a cop for anything. Also local news media need a good relationship with police so they can't really serve as a check as they should. Half their content would dry up if they pissed off their local law enforcement.

All this adds up to everyone walking on eggshells to "respect" our cops and minimize any issues that arise. Cop culture takes advantage this by promoting and tolerating arrogance and an above-the-law attitude across the thin blue line, not just among the "bad apples".

I'm all for law and order, but this bully abused his authority and her rights and freedom and almost violated an unconscious victims privacy. The cop needs to be arrested and prosecuted, as an example to other badges of what not to do. And I agree she should get a nice monetary reward from the city as an example of what good freedom loving Americans are supposed to do. But, I dislike bullies
And happen to think most nurses are angels.

So far the cop hasn't been arrested or charged with a crime.

However the FBI is now investigating the cop who went rogue.

This presents somewhat of a dilemma for Utahns; alt-right ppl want to blame the nurse (for What?), liberals want to blame the cop; there seems to be no middle ground here...

GNPE Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> This presents somewhat of a dilemma for Utahns;
> alt-right ppl want to blame the nurse (for What?),
> liberals want to blame the cop; there seems to be
> no middle ground here...


There is the side of right and wrong regardless of political leanings. My siblings are mostly middle-of-the-road conservatives, and they all think the cop was out of line. They're mostly either doctors or married to doctors, which I'm sure colors their perspectives to some degree. Still, not all physicians or surgeons are inherently pro-nurse (though I am). A clear-thinking person should be able to see that the cop was way out of line.

I have to say as someone who trained at University Hospital that those with whose actions I most strongly take exception are the University police who stood by and allowed the nurse to be assaulted. They are paid first and foremost to protect patients and staff. What the hell did they think was their job? To hold up the hospital walls with their backs?

The "middle ground" is to throw out the fake tribal identities of right/left, con/lib, red/blue just like we threw out the Lamanite/Nephite fiction. Then we could truly examine issues "a la carte" and find the real solution without having to reject a good solution because it belongs to "the other side".

I know...pipe dream. Maybe we need more pipes.

It wasn't about Mormonism. It was about human dignity, INTIMIDATION, BULLYING, police 'mis(ter)-conduct', FOLLOWING THE Law - or in the case of the police-men, VIOLATING it - abusing and assaulting the nurse, protecting (serve and protect my ass) the patient/ law, and supposedly the (would be) [UNITED STATES of AMERICA] citizen!

M@t

I'm of the opinion that in this case, the cop abused his authority. But just to be clear, he may not have been completely unjustified in that belief. Most States, if not all, have laws that demand citizens assist police. This link only lists *some* of the legal criteria, and should only be used as a starting point for drilling down into those laws.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Refusing_to_assist_a_police_officer

Utah's law is vague and broad, seeming to demand both revelatory and other superhero powers.

This is Utah's law according to the page you sent:

"A person is guilty of a class B misdemeanor if, upon command by a peace officer identifiable or identified by him as such, he unreasonably fails or refuses to aid the peace officer in effecting an arrest or in preventing the commission of any offense by another person."

The word "unreasonably" is interesting. Is it unreasonable to refuse assistance to a cop committing a crime? I would think it quite reasonable to deny assistance to an illegal act committed by anyone, including the police.

I posted it primarily because other posters had made statements concerning citizens' (legal), extant obligations to assist LEOs. My concern here was that readers not be advised that "failure to assist" (lawful assistance) is "okay" - or legal. One can be prosecuted.

I do not support this particular cop, and even can see how his behavior may have betrayed his motives, if this is his defense. He had to be acting to either effect arrest or prevent crime in order to be justified in demanding that assistance. ...An unconscious person cannot qualify either state of being. His demand of assistance stands unqualified as "protecting" an unconscious person.

On the other hand, UT and other states have laws which specifically demand (broad) "assistance" in investigations against criminals/crime (other than the referenced wiki, just a starting point). That is more in line with the demands and behavior of this cop.

Simply put, he's a liar, and everything he says should be disregarded by any/every jury, as any "reasonable" person should do. That would mean that his spoken words and written reports should carry no weight against any past or future suspect, and his own lack of honor disqualifies him as having any value as a LEO.

All that said, a policeman can not compel someone to commit and illegal act. Anyone can refuse to commit an illegal act, even if it comes from a policeman.

Also, there is an aspect of civil disobedience, disobeying the civil authorities when the civil authorities are unjust. The USA was founded via civil disobedience.

There is Mormonism stamped all over this incident.

Doubt the cop was Mormon because he has facial hair, but the mormon culture is tattooed all over this.

1. Ordering to submit to male, and state authority.

2. Do NOT ever, ever question authority,

3. Protect the hive, and use and governmental authority to do so. Regardless of legal or ethical obligations.

4. Again, regardless of legal, moral, or ethical obligations, a woman must never question a man.

5. A person of authority need never worry about legal consequences. The legal department will make it go away.

6. Even the cop, a detective, needed to moonlight as Utah is a right to work state.

7. Statnding between the hospital security, the cop, and the nurse should have been the nurses union rep.as hospital management should never be expected to stand behind their people unless in their legal interest.

That reminds me of a scene from The Office (Season 5, Episode 10 - "Moroccan Christmas"):

Michael: Meredith, have you ever used alcohol to alter your mood or deliberately change your state of mind?
Meredith: Sure.
Michael: Do you sometimes have a drink to celebrate a special occasion or mark a holiday?
Meredith: Obviously.
Michael: Have you ever under the influence of alcohol questioned the teachings of the Mormon church?
Oscar: Where did you get this?
Michael: I got it on a website, that's not important.
Toby: Michael, We should contact some experts. You don't know what your doing.

Dwight Schrute Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> That reminds me of a scene from The Office (Season
> 5, Episode 10 - "Moroccan Christmas"):
>
> Michael: Meredith, have you ever used alcohol to
> alter your mood or deliberately change your state
> of mind?
> Meredith: Sure.
> Michael: Do you sometimes have a drink to
> celebrate a special occasion or mark a holiday?
> Meredith: Obviously.
> Michael: Have you ever under the influence of
> alcohol questioned the teachings of the Mormon
> church?
> Oscar: Where did you get this?
> Michael: I got it on a website, that's not
> important.
> Toby: Michael, We should contact some experts. You
> don't know what your doing.

I don't mean to be dense, Dwight,but was this actually on "The Office"?

Patriarchy. This man lost his shit because a woman, a blond woman, defied his authority.

Dorothy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Patriarchy. This man lost his shit because a
> woman, a blond woman, defied his authority.

This is what I think, too.

At this point, if she Doesn't sue (everyone involved), that will be seen as deferral / deference.period.

meaning that the dirty cop is fired, driven out of Law Enforcement, becomes unemployable, and that the nurse sues his foul ass into oblivion. The only thing that he had to do to stay out of trouble was to do his job with in the expectations and bounds of the law as a law enforcement professional who should know and understand ........ and Respect the law, INSTEAD of gratuitously engaging in supposed Heroics that really accomplished nothing substantial besides ( THANKFULLY!!!!) getting him into trouble and that required unneeded extra effort that he was way too willing to indulge in.


I say that as some one who has been falsely arrested in circumstances quite similar to the nurse's arrest, except that my deal was even worse.

I know exactly what it is like to have Law Enforcement decide that they are going to indulge in strong arm ass kicking tactics to impose their will on a selected subject that they assume with out real basis must be in the wrong. And for the record, I am as (pasty) white bread, clean cut (no tatts, no body piercings), drug free as any one could possibly be. Sorry for my misleading appearance, but I look like some one that LDS inc would like to have as HP group leader or bishop, and I mean that in their finest straight laced MORmON traditions, before LDS Inc tried to supposedly cozy up to skate boarders and bikers in the interest of trying to appear cool for what ever that could be worth.

As the falsely arrested nurse rightfully objected to her improper treatment, she was manhandled and detained. She had properly refused to draw blood from a patient. Almost exactly like her, I stated that I had done nothing wrong. As I stated that I had done nothing wrong, I was beaten and then taken to jail. I had been grocery shopping, NOT stalking my nut case PIG wife at the time. Video does not lie. She followed me into the store, NOT the other way around as she claimed as she lied just to get me into trouble.

The nurse was immediately released after arrest. I spent a week in jail, with a sore back from being beaten during my arrest. The first three days having to sleep in a concrete holding cell. The next 4 days having to sleep on a jail bed which is a steel bunk with some hopelessly inadequate thin slab of foam rubber as an excuse for a mattress. I was in agony.

As I made a simple request for an additional mattress to double what I had to try to help alleviate some of my extreme discomfort so that I might be able to return to work when I was finally released instead of dealing with prolonged pain, my jailers acted like I had made a request for caviar and champagne for my meals. I was told that I was extremely stupid and extremely unreasonable for making that request. I was also told that I needed to understand that the proper official approach to my problem situation would be the administration of pain killer medication which was a measure that the jail could readily facilitate IF I made that request. ( ANY ONE SEE A PROBLEM THERE ????????) Just what we need, more drug use!!!


The dirty cops who arrested me were ONLY punished by the aggravation of seeing their charges against me dropped at a later time.

From personal experience I can authoritatively say: The real (REAL) influence of MORmON patriarchal Machismo and/ or Law enforcement Machismo in Utah, when it really does come into play, is that MORmON LEO's are generally way too reluctant to arrest women even as a woman SHOULD be arrested. AS WELL the same LEO's are way too willing to try to beat the Hell out of some designate male villain in order to gratuitously show off their LEO manliness to some designate victim female before having properly gauged the situation. Sure, they want females to stay in a certain role of submission, but that role also includes a certain kind of favoritism when the female is willing to play the proverbial "damsel in distress" role and the MORmON LEO has the opportunity to use his authority to assert himself over some other supposedly less deserving male - a play right out of Joe SMith's and BY's bag of wife stealing tricks.

After it became apparent that my nut case wife of the time was a LIAR and was far more unlawful than I had been, the best that spineless gutless wimps of law enforcement in charge of my deal could do was to "threaten to arrest" my POS Lying spouse, as opposed to actually arresting her, as she had CRIMINALLY endangered me, the public, and law enforcement under false pretenses just to gratify her self by getting me arrested and beaten up for objecting to the process at the time.

I should be entitled to call her a bitch or a whore by now, and I would except that such a designation is improper because it is entirely inadequate to the point of being grossly misleading, as she simply is not honorable enough or desirable enough for those names, so I will refrain from using those inaccurate terms for the sake of accuracy. How ironic that the best one syllable term that I can apply to my ex wife is to call her "pig", especially as one of her many lies was falsely claiming to be a police officer, used in the interest of inciting more punishment for me.

That said, I want to thank some OTHER officers who in other instances managed to remain in a steadfastly professional mode instead of allowing my nutcase PIG (now ex) spouse and their lower heads to take charge of the situation in spite of her raging complaints and insistence that they automatically take her side.

What a tragedy!!! that IF LEO PIG Jeff Payne really did want to arrest a woman to show what a big man her was, that he was not around to arrest my PIG wife at time who so fully deserved to be arrested for wantonly breaking the law, instead of illegally arresting a decent nurse that was just properly doing her job.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vjc9Gk379wE&t=247s

I know very well how the nurse feels after suffering such mistreatment by a LEO.

(Does anyone know) Was she booked into jail?

Once a custodial arrest is made, I think 100% are ( situation 100 X worse!)

Here is how favoritism in the Utah justice system usually plays out. Nearly killed her husband by stabbing him with a knife.
, but totally avoided any jail time, because the bishop said she was a great person .....most of the time.

I never even so much as mentioned the word "knife" in my deal, and I ended up doing a total of 30 days over NOTHING but lies before the idiots in the justice system and my PIG former spouse were done with me. Then they wondered why I never did ask for any visitation. I tried to get custody but they put the kids with dead baby eater woman instead of me and HER mother who was on my side and who was to get guardianship under my custody plan. When that failed I gave up.

The law had already proven to me that they could put me in jail over nothing but (her) BS, and that they operated on an arrest and jail the man first, ask questions later basis. Then they wondered why I refused any visitation as a means to completely minimize the potential for complaints from her.


When I posted this before, here on RFM, there were some people who tore into me saying that Shona Downing was justified in stabbing her husband.

IF he needed to go to jail then put him in jail. IF she needs to go to jail then put her in jail. People who stab other people out of anger, not self defense, need to go to jail.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ml_FAN2kfBI

http://www.sltrib.com/news/2017/09/13/slc-mayor-to-announce-findings-of-investigations-into-police-officers-who-arrested-nurse/

Includes detailed findings.

Something confused me from the SLT story and comments, but at the same time, explains how Chiefs get caught off guard, and avoid responsibilty.

And it makes no sense to me.

The Chief is not informed of suspected (even recorded) wrongdoing by an officer until a an investigation is complete, the investigation is internal (cats guarding the cream situation), and the officer faces no repercussions without the Chief's say-so (lest the PD gets sued by the union).

That is just one totally broken system. If the Chief and Mayor do not want to act, to avoid "putting a finger on the scale," then a designee should have that requisite authority to review cases and remove officers from interacting with the public.

These officers remained armed, amongst the public, until the Mayor and Chief viewed the video, a month after the fact. They both claimed no knowledge of the crimes, but neither pointed to the person appointed or assigned to act to protect the public (and themselves) from "bad" policing. "Bad" cop videos have been online for much more than a decade, yet there is no person or office to police the police.

We nor they can claim that it's the job of the Internal Affairs division or the "civilian" review board (politicians), neither of whom acted to protect the public.

I also wondered if Payne gets paid for every blood draw or if being able to draw blood is reflected in an increase of salary.

If he was hoping to make extra cash before his shift ended, it might have contributed to his angry tantrum.