Not by a long shot.

So when I tuned in today to LDS conference (yeah, so what....someone's gotta do it) it was between sessions and of course they were showing video of their marvelous yellow vested relief workers in various third world countries.

I was so utterly impressed.

Not.

It was obviously too late to show their activity on behalf of the recent hurricanes (if any).

What would really impress me is if the Morg would gird up their loins and marshal every resource and lead the charge to render aid and succor to our fellow citizens stranded on the isles of the sea, surrounded by nothing but 'big water' and hollow promises.

Yeah, I know you'd say fat chance but they'd be missing a really, really yuuuge PR opportunity by just promptly showing up in PR.

Or the Virgin Islands for that matter.

In any event, we here can at least say a prayer, light a candle or even write a check.

These things I say in the name of almighty human compassion.




Here's an update on what I'm talking about:

https://news.google.com/news/video/xcnMPRuU8Co/dhUMt919IJivRVMdY28Pk1y9NlwmM?hl=en

If they were really serious they would tell their members to donate their 10% to relief efforts rather than LDS Inc.

MP



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/30/2017 09:49PM by merryprankster.

I just checked the forecast. It says hell will freeze over about half past never.

Any help is better than no help. A million meals a day for an island of three million people without food will last exactly ....

Loathe tho I am to bring politics into a humanitarian themed thread, I think it worthwhile to take a closer look at the brave woman that our commander in chief has mocked and belittled:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2017/09/30/trump-called-san-juans-mayor-a-weak-leader-heres-what-her-leadership-looks-like/?utm_term=.e0dd414ccf8d

Oh, come on, Shummy! First she said the response was fantastic. Then she had to get her talking points corrected, so she denounces Trump, standing in front of pallets of supplies. She refused to attend FEMA meetings,and truck drivers are not showing up to deliver the goods. The important thing is to remind everybody of how EEEEEEEEvvvvilll Trump is.

The Puerto Rican economy has been in the dumps for decades, and the territorial government is notoriously inefficient and corrupt. The debt situation is on the order of Greece (don't worry, the US Taxpayer will protect Wall Street's interests).

Whatever Trump does will be not enough, too late, too soon, too selfish, or something. Or should we talk about another President who kept golfing on Martha's Vineyard when Louisiana was under water?

I've seen two or three mentions of Puerto Rico's debt problems. They are indeed significant although that is not relevant to the the emergency response. I think it is important to highlight that point: reconstruction raises lots of questions but none of them should play a role in disaster relief. Puerto Rico's finances are a red herring.

On a less important point, the hyperpole about Puerto Rico's debt demands proper context. Yes, there has been lots of mismanagement and corruption. But the PR debt/GDP level there is nowhere near Greece's nor, in fact, that of the United States. Puerto Rico's debt stands at about 80% of GDP; the US ratio is about 110% of GDP; Greece's is 180% of GDP; Japan's is 260% of GDP. Almost all of Europe is more indebted than Puerto Rico.

You can say that pension obligations should be added in to Puerto Rico's figures, which is entirely reasonable. But you would then need to add them to everybody else's as well, and what you would see is that the island territory remains much less indebted than all those countries.

I frankly wonder why Trump and other people bring this matter up at all. Did anyone mention the appalling state of US finances when Texas and Florida were hit over the last few weeks? What is it about Puerto Rico that requires us to criticize their relatively healthy finances when discussing an emergency rescue?

It almost sounds like the debt talk is simply a way to deny or decrease aide to Puerto Rico that was offered to other parts of the United States. Why, I wonder, is that?

And what about the United States debt load ever climbing up?

Well into the trillions.

How dare you compare the debt of Puerto Rico to saving lives. It's our duty as fellow Americans to come together and bring relief to those who are hurt and suffering in Puerto Rico.

One news commentator made the poignant point yesterday the reason why Trump hasn't been as willing to help Puerto Rico and more willing to criticize those who are its spokespeople to get relief there, is that it has zero electoral votes.

Florida has 27 electoral votes. Texas has 37. Puerto Rico: nada.

For him it's all about political capitol, not saving lives. If they can't vote for him he doesn't care diddly squat for them.

Hence his attack against the mayor of San Juan. Puerto Ricans are not on his radar.

What he's done thus far 11 days in to help the Americans of Puerto Rico is too little too late. That will be his lasting legacy and a smear on the office he holds.

Bad mouthing the good mayor of San Juan is just more deflecting of his personal failures, demonstrating further what is lacking in his character and personal integrity to do the right thing which is to save and protect American lives.

Amyjo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> One news commentator made the poignant point
> yesterday the reason why Trump hasn't been as
> willing to help Puerto Rico and more willing to
> criticize those who are its spokespeople to get
> relief there, is that it has zero electoral
> votes.
>
> Florida has 27 electoral votes. Texas has 37.
> Puerto Rico: nada.
>
> For him it's all about political capitol, not
> saving lives. If they can't vote for him he
> doesn't care diddly squat for them.
>
> Hence his attack against the mayor of San Juan.
> Puerto Ricans are not on his radar.
>
> What he's done thus far 11 days in to help the
> Americans of Puerto Rico is too little too late.
> That will be his lasting legacy and a smear on the
> office he holds.
>
> Bad mouthing the good mayor of San Juan is just
> more deflecting of his personal failures,
> demonstrating further what is lacking in his
> character and personal integrity to do the right
> thing which is to save and protect American lives.

You seem to have reached the juncture where your political hatred has converted to a religion. Mormon bishops and ignorant political junkies are the only humans who feel completely confident that they KNOW the hidden thoughts of others. If you have some specific evidence of decisions made to willingly withhold aid, please present it. Otherwise, I'm not sure exactly what separates you from the Mormon with a burning in their bosom.

The attacks on San Juan's mayor are more than justified. She is choosing political posturing over actually helping her people. A photo op of her wading through deep waters is not the aid her people need. FEMA and every other relief worker needs help and direction from local leaders. So far, she has refused to interact with FEMA at all. This is like standing in the hospital waiting room screaming you need medical attention, but refusing to meet with a doctor.

Here are some reports from those actually on the ground, working with FEMA:

FEMA stood by its hurricane response Saturday, blasting the mayor's lack of leadership, and claiming Cruz has not participated in any joint agency meetings to address the devastation.

“The problem that we have with the mayor unfortunately is that unity of command is ultimately what’s needed to be successful in this response,” FEMA administrator Brock Long told CNN. “What we need is for the mayor, the good mayor, to make her way to the joint field office and get plugged into what’s going on and be successful."
http://dailycaller.com/2017/09/30/fema-chief-defends-trump-tweets-dings-san-juan-mayor-video/

Guaynabo’s mayor, Angel Perez has been attending the FEMA meetings and is finding he's able to get all the help he needs.

“I don’t know why she is saying that. What I can tell you is my experience. She is not participating in any meetings and we had a couple already with the governors and with representation of FEMA and of HUD, of these whole federal agencies that have given us help and she’s not participating in those meetings and some mayors from her political party have been participating, so I don’t know why she is saying that. My experience is very different.”
http://dailycaller.com/2017/09/30/exclusive-fellow-puerto-rico-mayor-rips-san-juan-mayor-shes-not-participating-in-any-meetings/


And this from Puerto Rican born and raised, Colonel Michael A. Valle (”Torch”), Commander, 101st Air and Space Operations Group, and Director of the Joint Air Component Coordination Element, 1st Air Force, responsible for Hurricane Maria relief efforts in the U.S. commonwealth:

“The aid is getting to Puerto Rico. The problem is distribution. The federal government has sent us a lot of help; moving those supplies, in particular, fuel, is the issue right now,” says Col. Valle. Until power can be restored, generators are critical for hospitals and shelter facilities and more. But, and it’s a big but, they can’t get the fuel to run the generators.

They have the generators, water, food, medicine, and fuel on the ground, yet the supplies are not moving across the island as quickly as they’re needed.

“It’s a lack of drivers for the transport trucks, the 18 wheelers. Supplies we have. Trucks we have. There are ships full of supplies, backed up in the ports, waiting to have a vehicle to unload into. However, only 20% of the truck drivers show up to work. These are private citizens in Puerto Rico, paid by companies that are contracted by the government,” says Col. Valle.

“As a Puerto Rican, what happens here for the people is personal to me. To say that we are not provided all of the help and resources needed is just not true. Distribution is the key, and we are working day and night on it. I’m here, my own family is here, I know how hard this is. We need to keep doing what we are doing. It’s going to take the resource of time.”
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/us-military-on-puerto-rico-the-problem-is-distribution_us_59ce5906e4b0f3c468060dee

Yes, sometimes people's political prejudices cause them to misconstrue readily available evidence and reach untenable conclusions.

Two questions. First, do you think the FEMA administrator is an objective source on how well FEMA is doing? Is his boss in Washington objective? How about her boss in the White House?

Second, do you realize that in the event of a natural disaster distribution is ALWAYS the problem? As your General Valle says, the aid is sitting there but there is no electricity and no gasoline. What is missing is distribution: logistical support. That is why the US army is critical in such situations: they are the ones who can airlift the fuel in, provide the drivers when necessary, get the generators in the hospitals running again.

Why hasn't the administration ordered the distributional and logistical support necessary to prevent catastrophe in Puerto Rico?

delete



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/09/2017 09:43PM by caffiend.

delete



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/09/2017 09:44PM by caffiend.

Unfortunately, there will be worse humanitarian crises. Why?

Because the last few generations have been trained to look to be saved by government whenever anything bad happens.

Where is FEMA!?!?!

FEMA can't be there before the storm, and hard to get there after. How about some personal responsibility in a hurricane zone!

And we'll keep offering aid for people to rebuild on the beaches.

Praise be to government, the new religion!

>>How about some personal responsibility in a hurricane zone!

You're joking, right?

For a disaster as huge as Puerto Rico, the government is going to have to take a lead role. Not only have homes been destroyed, but also infrastructure.

People who live along the water all carry extra flood zone insurance. You know that, right? Homes that were rebuilt in Florida after the last major hurricane there (Andrew) were built to a higher standard and are generally still standing. Do ALL of the homes where you live meet the CURRENT building code? I think not.

Much of the U.S. could suffer from a major disaster -- flooding of rivers, forest fires, earthquakes, and tornadoes. Even Salt Lake City is on a fault line. We had a tornado pass through in Maryland last month that knocked down houses.

Honestly, people such as yourself who whine about the "gubment" are the FIRST to demand government help in and after a disaster. Did any of our good citizens in Texas, Louisiana, or Alabama refuse FEMA aid after hurricanes there? Yeah, I think NOT. They needed help and they got it.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 10/01/2017 08:46AM by summer.

Puerto Rico is poor and cash strapped. Part of that's blamed on government corruption. Poverty stricken areas seldom have flood insurance.

Note if they did, FEMA will not provide relief to homeowners with flood insurance following a hurricane. It's presumed they are less needy than someone without.

All FEMA really provides is some financial relief to those who meet a certain criteria threshold as to income level, their own insurance, and based on loss of their home &/or automobile, certain medical equipment, generators, etc. That's it. For other relief FEMA refers people to other disaster relief organizations such as the Red Cross, and elsewhere. It does not distribute food, water or medical supplies, or even housing for the newly displaced and homeless.

It is actually very limited in what aid it's able to supply and not everyone who has lost all even qualifies for its assistance.

The poorest will receive something if they haven't any insurance. Even what FEMA can provide is still a drop in the bucket compared to their actual needs.

"Not only have homes been destroyed, but also infrastructure."

Conservatives don't need infrastructure.

They built their success. Every bit of it.

Never tell a conservative - "you didn't built THAT"



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/10/2017 06:46PM by thingsithink.

No, it's not over by a long shot! As a gesture of good will to their derelict president donald j. trump, it didn't take the mormon CULT long to clear out their slave labor force (missionaries) from Puerto Rico! Odious Amigos! You can bet Catholic Charities/many others will be there for the long haul! The CULT offer of love/support is shallow/just doesn't get it! As a result of this blatant disregard for brown/dark skinned humanity, the so-called mormon church should refund all tithing dollars given to them by victims of ecclesiastical fraud/deliver this money to the Mayor of San Juan, Puerto Rico so she can distribute to the truly needy in order to save precious lives! As Always, tnurg (GRUNT)

Reality check. The folks in PR overtime will need to relocate to the mainland. Sea levels are rising. More deadly hurricanes will occur. PR's future is over regardless of past issues. Whatever repair work happens is a bandaid.

Yes, many people there will likely need to be relocated, similar to what happened after Katrina. It was a few years before my niece was able to permanently move back to New Orleans after Katrina.

I stayed at El Convento in San Juan for a few days on the way back from somewhere else. Near the fort that guarded the bay back in the day. Spent July 4th there. The celebration was over the top spectacular. Never witnessed that many people gathered together. Songs, fireworks, and fun. At the end, we all sang the Star spangled Banner in Spanish. Just an awesome night. The people were the best fun.

On the other hand, PR is a giant slum. Had a hard time believing it was part of the US. Could have been any other third world country I've seen. It is easy to see how corruption was woven into everything.

I am going to help somehow. Hopefully it gets to the folks there and doesn't end up in pockets of corrupt thieves like it did in Haiti.

It's about love. It's easy to just observe and comment. Look inside your heart and join in helping. Mis-quoting someone: 'Charity is the pure love of humanity.'

teddy

Oops...

Sadly, this issue -- like pretty much ever other one on the planet -- is related to the same root cause: overpopulation.

Yes, the people of PR need help.At the same time, the huge problem of over population needs to be addressed.

One hundred years ago, there were about 1.5 billion people on the planet -- now we are approaching 8 billion!

I'd like to know how "over-population" is the root cause of hurricanes?

They've been occurring since the world began.

Population growth has declined in the First World countries. Its developing countries that are still grappling with education and birth control.

It's resources that governments will be warring over in coming generations. Especially water.

I'd much rather contend with population growth than its adverse decline. Another world war will eliminate millions if not billions of the population following a nuclear winter. What would be left following that would be slim pickins. Maybe that is why many would rather die in a nuclear war than survive one.

I will point out, for good or for ill, that the title of this thread should correctly be written as:

United States of America Humanitarian Crisis of Gargantuan Proportion Isn't Over

And I beseech assistance... which is bigger, gargantuan or humongous? ...so we'll3be ready for the inevitable...

Re: Humanitarian Crisis of Gargantuan Proportion Isn't Over

Update:

With all the bad news from Las Vegas, we forget that people are (still) hurting elsewhere. It seems that the logjam of stockpiled, but undelivered, relief supplies has finallybeen solved by turning the distribution over to the military --Puero Rico National Guard.

http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2017/10/us_militarizes_puerto_rican_relief_effort.html

I fear that in disasters like this, the only entity with the logistical and command capacity to solve the problem is the military. We knew it would go this way; it had to go this way.

I just wish it had happened more quickly so that our brothers and sisters in US citizenship would have suffered less.

It's been three weeks since Maria hit, less than 60% has clean water. Still 85% have no electricity.

FEMA goes into towns to have people fill out paperwork, but brings no supplies to distribute to the towns or villages. They tell the people that's the mayors job to figure out and to distribute food & water.

The mayors are as devastated as the rest of the citizens are.

Let's hope the military is able to do more than the bureaucratic organization that is FEMA. Paperwork doesn't cut it when people have lost everything.

In other news......Nero fiddles.

Well they gots paper towels.

I read something of interest today regarding Puerto Rico: We may never know the final death toll, because there are an unknown number dead who were buried by their families without notice to "los autoridades" because that's just way it is up in the interior hill country. They can't afford mortuary & funerary services, no matter the cause of death. In other words, to some extent, there are 3rd world country features in Puerto Rico.

The quiet suffering of indigenous people...

There are many "third world" places in the United States.

I have a friend from a poor country who received a very good education in the US and spent years at the World Bank. Early in her career she was based in Washington and working on a project deciding where a big package of aid should be disbursed. She and her more seasoned colleagues were looking at a map of social indicators (infant mortality, poverty, avoidable diseases, etc.). She naively pointed out that there were a dozen or so places in the United States that more than met the standards for international aid and asked if those shouldn't be included in the World Bank plans.

This evoked laughter and a quick lecture that it was politically unacceptable to point out the obvious: that the United States tolerates pockets of poverty and inequality that no other "first world" country does. Puerto Rico is not unique.

More bad news. . . .

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/donald-trump-we-cannot-aid-puerto-rico-forever/ar-AAtldFH?li=BBmkt5R&ocid=spartanntp

I'll give you my take, albeit brief....

I have been to PR about 25 times in the last four years for work. I've been to every part of the island.

I am sure there is some politics going on in PR with the governor, because most people dislike Trump there. But playing along with him if it means you will get help might be a good idea.

I have friend who is a vice president at a university--he still doesn't have power. So it's not all slums and poor who aren't getting help.

The Puerto Ricans are some of the most hard-working people I've ever met. I can't believe that "drivers aren't showing up to work to deliver supplies" (paraphrase.)

The US made PR a commonwealth. We need to treat American citizens better than this.

Okay look out folks.

I'm pissed.

Watching the brave and beleaguered PRs on msnbc has sent me into a fucking rage.

They are helping each other any way they can because there is no other help available.

Midwives are a Godsend. Chopping wood from the wreckage to boil water and cook, anything to help each other survive.

We have mr trumpets sending a hospital ship 3 weeks late with 500 highly trained medics and doctors aboard while he golfs like Nero fiddled.

There are 8 patients now being treated on board. Yes, I said 8.

Sorry for cussing my friends but I know you will understand.

Fema has visited a few homes but brought no aid, they were there to do a goddam report.

But then he gave them a fucking golf cup.

They can polish it with their fucking towels after they spit on it.


fuck fuck fuck