Hey peeps, nice to meet you all, this seems like a nice forum. I'm just beginning my exit from religion and the mormon church (although not a soul yet knows besides me and now you guys).

Little about me: born in the covenant, had a wonderful experience in the church for the most part. 28 years old now, married, kid on the way. Served a mission in Brazil. Finished my engineering degree last year.

Started to not believe so strongly in the church teachings (or God) at the beginning of the year and it's been a slippery slope down the rabbit hole.

My problem: I would have left easily by now but my wife is still a believer. We are still madly in love (4 years married) and I have no doubt that her love for me will stay the same even after I leave. She's a genuinely good person and not a hardcore Mormon by any means. I really just fear making her sad and worried for me all the time. She would definitely feel guilty and probably somehow blame herself for my leaving. I also don't want her to be going to church by herself every Sunday and being "that wife" whose husband is "inactive."

Has anyone had a similar predicament? Church is starting to get VERY boring nowadays lol and I don't know how long I can keep my wife from paying my hard earned paycheck for tithing. Lol, been trying to put it off and change the subject. Thanks in advance!

Welcome.

Congratulate yourself for seeing through it all so young.

There have been many here in your situation. Some have had successful lives with a believing spouse. Others have divorced and moved on.

My husband waited 15 years for me to finally catch on. When I finally told him I didn't think the church was true, he said, "What took you so long!"

He would say subtle things that made me think- especially about women's issues. He told me he was uncomfortable being a middleman between me and God in the temple. He told me he was uncomfortable knowing my magic name and I wasn't supposed to know his. He would point out that women are not interviewing boys about their sex lives but men interview girls. You get the idea.

Consider asking her if she would read Compton's In Sacred Loneliness with you. Tell her you would like a women's view about what she thinks of JS's relationships because you know as a man what he was probably thinking.

If you become very critical too fast, it could make her double down and become even more devoted.

Some have success making Sunday such a great day for doing fun things together (especially if you had kids old enough to see that family is way more fun than church). Take her places. Be the best husband you can be. Praise her for any signs of thinking independently. Encourage her to read and question. My husband encouraged me to take an anthropology class (what an eye-opener).

Good luck. It will become increasingly difficult sitting through the BS. Your family will be held hostage. It can be very painful. It can take a long time for her guilt to fade. If she knows you are not attending or believing, she will always feel second class and concerned for her CK status. It all seems so stupid but we know how hard it can be to deal with.


Welcome!

Welcome, Nuuvox.
RfM is so much fun, and such a wonderful refuge!
:)

Welcome and a word of caution...although you may be correct and judging what your wife wil do or say, I would do nothing in dropping this bomb on her until well after the baby safely arrives. Even then going very slowly. First you are going to have to face the blessing of the child or not. Putting it off or not participating will be a major conflict. Hell bless the kid with all the treasures in the world but slip in a line about growing up and judging the church for what it is- something of that nature.

New babies bring families from both sides. You will have to deal with that. They also generally insist on church attendance when they come.

So our new friend GO SLOW unless you really want intense conflict
for years to come. Read on this site and everything you can get your hands on but spreading that info is best to be put off

Gatorman

That is an important point, gatorman.

Pregnancy can be a weird time for you both. She may feel vulnerable and dependent on you. She had plans for life and now may not be time to change course. Know that her hormones changes can wreak havoc on her (and you) for up to a year after the birth. It's an emotional time and religion is all about emotions.

Dagny, did your husband attend church with you while waiting for you to figure it out?

Having been single until I was 27 and I also worked with divorcees, I went inactive when I knew my marriage was falling apart as I know how women are treated when they are "single."

My first thought when I started reading your post is that you should go to SM with your wife even if you don't believe. Don't let her be someone they pity, someone they find to be a good target for their insanity, as it gets insane. And your kids will be targets, too. My dad wasn't very active and we were targets.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/12/2017 06:26AM by cl2.

Yes, he did attend. I think everyone just viewed him as an eccentric professional who was too busy to do anything with them. He is a strategic thinker and somehow never agreed to do anything. He is very good at saying no and not needing to explain.

He was mostly bored there and would read a book. Neither of us wanted to do social stuff. We are both loner types.

He would never think it was any business of the bishop or anyone to know his thoughts about his beliefs or anything personal.

I thought relief society was dumb. He thought priesthood meeting was dumb. We would laugh about it. Over time, the gig was up.

Talk about PATIENCE.

Everyone is different. When I found out that Mormonism is a hoax and a cult, I couldn't get out of there fast enough! My children resigned with me. I asked them, one Saturday, on a whim, WHY they didn't like church. First, I had to reassure them that I was going to listen to them, and understand, and not get angry at them. Then, they told me about instances of physical abuse, when they were younger, at the hands of adult priesthood leaders, and a pervert high school senior, who was the bishop's son. I will spare the details, but my children were great kids, and didn't deserve such horrendous abuse for merely sleeping in, after an early morning paper route, and being unable to get up for church, or for being late for a meeting, or for staying home and doing homework instead of attending a YM activity.

"Target" is a good word for it! My children did not have a father on the scene, to protect them from Mormon bullies.

IMO, your child would be "in peril" in the Mormon cult. I would put his/her safety and happiness above everything else.

If you protect your wife from the ugly underbelly of the cult, you are just abetting the lies. The Mormons will continue to grab a big chunk of your money--which adds up, over the years. Your wife will never know how nasty the mormons can be to a member who isn't obedient. How will she know, unless you miss several meetings in a row, and the priesthood leaders come down hard on you both. Skip your tithing settlement this January, and see how un-Christ-like the Mormons are towards you and your wife. Let her go to church without you, and be treated like dirt, as the wife of a "less-active" husband. She will be blamed for your inactivity.

Most Mormons have an emotional testimony. That's why it is often futile to appeal to their intellect. She will think you are reading "anti-Mormon literature" or that you are being "influenced by Satan", or are spending too much time on the "evil internet." But--let her experience a heavy dose of reality--for herself--and come to her own conclusion. That's what happened to me. After talking to my children, it hit me like lightning: "Mormonism is not God's work."

Only after that, did I start studying, and getting answers.

It is good advice for you to make your wife's life as happy and possible, outside of church. Education is a great eye-opener, no matter what the subject. Travel, if you can. Spend time with non-Mormon friends. Offer her more time with you and your new baby, on Sundays, as an alternative to church. Actually, church is no place for babies.

I feel that you should be honest with your wife. Be a man of integrity, and do not do something that you believe is wrong. Your wife can do whatever she wants, but you need to follow your conscience. Don't you think she deserves the Truth? The truth about you, the truth that Mormonism is a cult? What she does with that information is up to her.

I feel bad for you. I was lucky, because my husband left before I did, and my children wanted to leave, before I did. I never had to "fake it." That would have been impossible, I'm afraid.

Amen.

Be wary of church members who'll treat you as suspect once you start asking questions or raising the issues in Sunday School (Gospel Doctrine class etc,) that has you scratching your head as to how you've been hoodwinked for so long.

Posing any questions are automatically met with disdain, disapproval (of you,) and what I recall as a glazed over eyestare from other members as they look back at you utterly speechless.

Whether that was from their brainwashing to such a degree, or to fear of questioning the truth as you were taught to understand it, or to just plain ignorance or cluelessness, does it really matter? What matters is that you have evolved. You'll find it next to impossible to live that lie as you mature and grow.

You're young. Hopefully your wife will align with you in your newfound understanding of what the church is *not*. Whether you continue attending with her, or she stops going with you, it should be a mutual decision IMO. I don't believe in deception between marital partners as in stringing her along until you're sure she's "ready to hear" what you have to say to her.

If she loves you and you love her, tell her now. Then you can both decide how you'll proceed next so she won't be left in the dark. If you two decide to string your family along, that's another thing entirely because you'll be doing it together. Openness and honesty is essential in any loving relationship. Don't make an exception on something as important as this.

Tis' true. Amen.

Everybody here is pretty smart and wise just ignore my posts i just come here to vent. But if you want to have a venting battle i am in.

Nuuvox,

My experience is very similar to your own, and it’s maddening to keep going to church and listening to some of the tripe that’s said there when all you want is out.

I took it very slow in revealing to my wife that I no longer believed but all the while downsizing my church activity. Sometimes I’d start conversations with her on some of the more obvious nonsense that was in the ensign etc - kind of slowly revealing my own thoughts. The short of it was that we eventually left together. We were 31 and 32 when we took full control of our lives.

I don’t remember us having a showdown or a decision time discussion, but rather a gradual evolution. At the end of this process and I was the ward financial clerk at the time, I wrote a letter to my Bishop saying I no longer wanted to do it and would cease in 2 weeks time – I was released straight away and so my wife and I started our new chapter. When confronted about this by members and family my wife would just say “we changed our minds”. Looking back now she tells me “my husband was more important than church”.

We still attend very occasional blessings of babies and a few other family events held at the chapel- but my goodness church seems to have got so very very dull. We also have HTs but none of this antagonizes me. We are out.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/12/2017 09:30AM by jstone.

It is wise to be prepared to present and answer her doctrinal questions in a friendly non threatening manner.

At the top of this board are some "stickies"

One of them leads to a church run site where the church itself responds to certain doctrinal questions.

Might I suggest you read them and gain some insights?

Lots of folks here can present their take on them if you have questions.

Thanks for your responses everyone! It's nice to read about your experiences. There is some conflicting advice which makes sense I guess, because everyone is different. For now, it seems the best thing for me to do is tell her in the coming weeks that I don't believe anymore. Then I think I can still continue to attend sacrament meeting and classes with her for at least a few months while I hopefully get her to slowly agree with me.

She already acknowledges that the brethren were racist when they didn't allow the blacks to have the priesthood. And she has hated the garments for a long time now. She also doesn't agree with not letting children of same-sex couples get baptized. She also grew up catholic. These are all hopeful starting points I think.

As far as our families, her Dad is Catholic, sister is active, brother and Mom are inactive. I have 4 siblings that basically left the church and two that haven't. My mom is active. So I don't see our families being a big problem, I think I'm lucky that way. I guess I was the most true blue of all of us lol. Like I said, I think my biggest fear is that she doubles down on the brainwashing material to try and convert me back.

As far as home teachers or visitors from the church, I'd still love to have them over. Heck, I'd probably still go home teaching myself if only to check on people's well being and make friends. It's not their fault they're brainwashed, so I understand.

Thanks for letting me have the space to get my thoughts out and hear your experiences!

My female response it to just tell her. Yes I cried for weeks almost non stop after my husband told me but it was worth it to me.

I talked to my husband about this. I asked him why he didn't just tell me.

He said my belief was not his. If it was something I wanted, he was willing to play along the same way he was willing to accept that I liked antique hunting. He said I needed to go on the journey myself and figure it out. He said he knew I would figure it out, but I was worth it either way.

I have very mixed feelings about this. Part of me is mad he didn't explain exactly what he was thinking immediately- but I would not have married him had I known his thoughts. We were on different parts of the path at different times. Maybe he knew I wasn't ready and would have divorced him. I am proud of him for making me go through the study to arrive at the conclusion myself though.

I really think he made the wrong decision to drag it out, but the end result is that it worked.

nuuvox must determine the best way for his situation. It sounds like his extended family has a lot more diversity than ours did. That helps.

I quit believing in the church before my husband did. My advice may not be as helpful, since my husband saw himself as the "Authority" in our home.

I would advise patience. Since you have a baby coming, your wife will be worn out. You might wish to take over paying the bills (including tithing). After the 1st of the year you could just stop paying.

I agree with the advice to not make a sudden declaration, but to just ask little thought provoking questions, and to read books like "In Sacred Loneliness" together. You'll need that time together, especially with a new baby. Her hormones will be very much a challenge enough to deal with, so take things very slowly.

It will be difficult, but having a spouse who also left the church will be a great bond for you in the future.

For yourself you have questions to answer about how you'll live your life for the rest of your life. Keep the good things about how to live and discard the cruel and thoughtless. This is what my husband was unable to do. He simply threw everything out, except he kept the part about seeing me as "lower" than him.

We are now divorced. It's important to get a good therapist to help you through the transition when you stop believing. Go to your local university and ask a professor of Social Work to give you the name of a therapist in the local community. There are many crummy therapists out there and you don't want to get stuck with one of those. And, I'm sorry to say there are many Lesbian therapists who just have a deep-seated desire to hurt women who are straight. I've experienced it many times. Don't let your wife get stuck with a therapist like that. I really am very sorry to say that is a reality you'll have to face.

Your story is one we regularly read on RfM. I left the church for the last time in college which led me to date and marry a never-mormon. I'm so glad I didn't have to deal with what you are going through.

You need to remember your baby is very vulnerable to mormon brain washing. I suggest you make a deal with your wife to let the child miss mormon church meetings at least half of the time. Don't start taking the baby to a mormon church for every event and meeting or you're likely to be standing on a street corner during their temple wedding, not to mention paying for a mission.

Think about working out a tithing plan to not pay on your half of the income. Some couples let the primary wage earner decide on the whole tithing issue. To me it seems fair to let each decide what happens to their half.

Don't rush into heavy discussions or try to force issues unless your wife brings them up. If she voices doubts or concerns, gently lead discussions helping her expand her mind in those specific areas.

Hope it goes well for you.

Welcome, nuuvox. Just know we are here for you.

Hardly post but figured I would chime in.

Similar story, late 28's became disillusioned with the "church" over a short period of time (joined in 92, nine years later I was all but done).

My wife still "believes" (for the most part) and attends (mostly, not always). I've never came right out and said "this Church is BS" and I've never kept her from taking the kids. I have tough the kids to be critical thinkers and the have applied that to the church and likely wont have anything to do with it by time they leave the house. My wife knows this as well. I've never forced my non-belief on her or offered her up an ultimatum. That has worked throughout the years, she has just come to accept that I am who I am. Best of luck to you!

I don't think there is a clear answer. My husband abandoned everything immediately after getting married in the temple. Naively, I believed by him becoming temple worthy, church would no longer be hard. I thought his work to get that recommend would mean something.

For nearly 10 years, I went by myself with my kids. His reason for not going; he no longer cared. It devastated me. It was the ultimate deception. It was nothing more than pure laziness and never believing. He knew I would not marry him if it wasn't in the temple.

What convinced me to leave? I could not do it by myself any longer. Kids with disabilities, church callings, and my husband refusing to help, or only helping when it was convenient for him, or saying he would help and then backing out. I decided if there was a God he would understand my family (my children) had to come first before church.

Then there was a general conference talk that said in a passive way, women are worthless without a man. Then I had extra time since I was no longer attending church and I studied church history. I took off my garments before my husband.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/12/2017 04:09PM by abby.

Hey there. I am going through a similar situation now. I'm in my final year at BYU and if I leave the church I risk losing graduation and medical school. After searching for advice on here (feel free to check out my first post) I have slowly begun a process of breaking it to my wife.

Its working ok. She knows I have serious "doubts" but not that I am "done" so to speak. I won't be done until I'm out of Provo just to protect my med school chances.

About once every week and a half she'll ask me how I'm doing and I'll tell her about some other reason why I "doubt" and then ask if she has come up with anything to the other things I told her. She hasn't even tried to respond to my other objections...wonder why!

Anyways, the slow-game is good for me. I don't know where your feelings with God are, but I recommend praying or meditating often through the experience. I don't believe in a mormon god of flesh and bone but I do get the feeling there is some great power out there. Great peace and direction has come as I meditate frequently about my circumstances.

Good luck!

Welcome to RFM nuuvox. Stick around, it helps.

Welcome I backed out on baptism after seeing the real truth and now being pulled back into this cult by missionaries, welcome to the group where we are tired of the church of Joseph Smith of latter day liars

Welcome nuuvox, we here at RFM relish in the wise council given by Apostle Hugh B. Brown.

“I admire men and women who have developed the questioning spirit, who are unafraid of new ideas as stepping stones to progress. We should, of course, respect the opinions of others, but we should also be unafraid to dissent – if we are informed. Thoughts and expressions compete in the marketplace of thought, and in that competition truth emerges triumphant. Only error fears freedom of expression.”
- Apostle Hugh B. Brown

And:“There are altogether too many people in the world who are willing to accept as true whatever is printed in a book or delivered from a pulpit.” Apostle Hugh B. Brown

And:"Mormonism, as it is called, must stand or fall on the story of Joseph Smith. He was either a prophet of God, divinely called, properly appointed and commissioned, or he was one of the biggest frauds this world has ever seen. There is no middle ground. If Joseph Smith was a deceiver who willfully attempted to mislead the people, then he should be exposed; his claims should be refuted, and his doctrines shown to be false." apostle Joseph Fielding Smith

And:“If we have the truth, it cannot be harmed by investigation. If we have not the truth, it ought to be harmed.”
J. Reuben Clark

I could continue with more but you get the idea. We believe in allowing ourselves to think and question things around here. Welcome to the discussion.

Welcome, nuuvox.

No "members" here. It's not the church. There's no baptism, confirmation, ordination, etc. Come and hang out when it suits you. Don't when it doesn't. You'll be welcome no matter how often you do or don't show up, and nobody will demand you believe certain things to be here :)

Best of luck with the situation with your wife. I know many people in your situation that got it all worked out -- and many that didn't. Here's to yours being the former!

I will echo those who have suggested going slow. Right now 99% of your wife's thoughts are on that baby she's carrying. She feels emotionally secure with you, I'm guessing, and this is allowing her the freedom and joy of daydreaming about her new baby. Now is NOT the time to disrupt her world. Just be the very best husband and dad over the next little while. Be the dad who takes the baby all three hours of church, unless he needs to nurse, and that will give you an out from going to class. The time will present itself to share your unbelief, but don't mar her memories of becoming a mom with memories of worrying about your soul and her "eternal family." Just let it be about her and the baby right now. She'll thank you in the long run.

Realize that church members appear to be in the church because of its doctrine, but subconsciously the social aspect is driving their interest.

Which is why highly educated, apparently intelligent people are able to believe all sorts of goofy ideas spouted in church and scripture.

My wife joined the church at college a year before we married. She says she liked the social aspect and the emphasis on family. She also is big into crafts and homemaking, so fit right in there. That is what drove her belief in the rest.

Women also feel more secure because they get a supposedly eternal marriage, and the church emphasizes that a man should be responsible and support his family, and not so much as look at another woman, lest he be guilty of lust.

So I submit to you that your wife doesn't really care if the BofM is true, she cares more that if you doubt the church, she will lose its control over you, and you will want to bail on her.

Like those who think legalizing weed means everyone will start smoking it, she probably thinks if you lose god, you'll want to dump her and become a drunk. Like there are no other good reasons to stick around.

So before you blast her with doctrine, I would explain in detail how neat you think it will be to be a dad. Regardless of whether it is on a list of duties by an outside force.

You might also ramble on about the value of dads, and how important you think it is that you are around. In today's world, dads are devalued.

Our biological roles for ages, for propagating the species, have been for women to bear and nurture children, and men to be providers and protectors. There can be overlap, and not everyone is interested, but generally, that is how it is, and you might express how neat that is.

My daughter and her husband came to live with us after leaving the military. He helped me finish a shop I had built, and made an apartment out of it for them to live while he goes to school.

They had a baby last spring and its fun to watch her be a mom. I hear her talking to him when I'm outside working, and I keep thinking that is how it should be.

That gives her husband purpose and motivation to do well in school. And gives me more motivation to get off the couch and split wood for their stove and grow a garden, etc. My wife is daily helping out with him, and loves it. Nothing quite like seeing your grandbaby grinning at you. I have to get my daily dose also.

Anyway, that's the vision. All about keeping the species going, and it can be a beautiful thing if done right. Doesn't seem to be appreciated that much these days.

Again, you might want to express your interest regardless of your church status.

Free Man,

enjoyed reading your comments. You said:

"Realize that church members appear to be in the church because of its doctrine, but subconsciously the social aspect is driving their interest.

Which is why highly educated, apparently intelligent people are able to believe all sorts of goofy ideas spouted in church and scripture.

My wife joined the church at college a year before we married. She says she liked the social aspect and the emphasis on family. She also is big into crafts and homemaking, so fit right in there. "

IMO this is where the church is now most vulnerable. They've already lost loads of people 'the smart ones' because of doctrine. Those who can read, will read, and can and will think have either left, or are at a point where each week church is a brain management exercise at keeping your mouth shut and swallowing identifiable nonsense.

However, the Mormon Socialites remain. But only so long as a less expensive more 'socially rewarding' competitor doesn't emerge in the local market.

If it does, a group offering great social connection, crafting, aspirations on the family and family values, yet more accepting of diversity and costing less - then, then i suspect the church could begin to lose a lot more members simply by being replaced.

It is the combination of 'it might be true' and the 'i like the social side' that together act like the stronger glue. The latter creates enough of a reason not to press on the former. What we're left with is a group of circa 5 million people who don't really care enough about truth, facts, or the supposed doctrinal values mormonism espouses (like integrity) to really feel motivated to find out. They're like the chap in the Matrix who noted that his steak wasn't real, but he preferred the illusion of eating it to the stuff he had on the ship.

Maybe this is why MLM's do so well in Utah, because facts and reality don't get in the way of what this group wants to believe in and the emotional reward of thinking that everything will turn out amazingly when they make Diamond.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/17/2017 04:49AM by lilburne.

Uh...ahem...there's this weekly fee we must collect to pay for stipends to our ..uh...uh..researchers. Yeah that's it...just make your bit coins out to me and I'll ..uh..disperse the funds...yeah..disperse...that's a good word..welcome buddy...buckle up cuz shell prolly buck...hope not..but brains are funny things

You'll get a ton of support.

The journey has begun!

Hello and Welcome!
Did this over 20+years ago. It took some time, a step forward and then 2 back, or this side or that, to get a complete picture.
Think I would offer one thing before all: you donot NOT have to answer questions or explain yourself.
If you donot want silence, you can say you are tired, or will think about it and thank you.
Learn how to dance around it.
Our best -> u (;-)

Welcome, nuuvox! The usual advice is to go slowly, and I think that especially applies to you with a new baby on the way. We're glad to have you here!

Welcome to RfM, nuuvox...

We are happy you joined us!!!

Hi Nuuvox,

All of these people welcoming you and not one of them was assigned to be your fellowshipper :)

What's more, you won't be placed on a list to discuss your activity. You won't be asked how often you masturbate or if you have paid to access the board privileges. You won't be asked to speak or post on a rota.

That said we don't have a basketball court you can use for sports or family events. But hey, you're 10% up annually which is typically more than the cost of renting a room for a family event anyway.

But, out of interest, do you have a story to share?

I heard Bishop Eric K has called Elder Berry and Void K Packer to be his home teachers.


:-D

Thanks for your responses everyone. I don't have a lot of private time to spend on here to write back to everyone but I have carefully read your responses and I appreciate the advice and experiences. I'm going to hold tight until our baby is born at least.

Try HEADPHONES (in the interim).

I did it once. Worked WONDERS!

COULDN'T HEAR A THING.

But the best music-sounds ever

Welcome