Shit. Why do they have to communicate with each other and be so d@mn smart. I am the king of avoidance and distraction i think. I don't want to face the real shit. Not now not ever.

So help us understand the point, time and expense of going to counseling if your intent is to deceive them?

Badassadam1 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Shit. Why do they have to communicate with each
> other and be so d@mn smart. I am the king of
> avoidance and distraction i think. I don't want
> to face the real shit. Not now not ever.


Then why bother going, wasting both theirs, and your, time?

I don't get the reasoning.

They're there to help you.

Why don't you apologize to them and start being cooperative? You'll like the outcome better.

Of course they are. They're not stupid.

I agree. You're wasting their time and your time and money.

Yea maybe i should stop there is no cure for what i got.

Your counselors are trying to help you. I have learned both personally and professionally that whatever "it" is you choose to either face it and deal with it, or hide from it.
If you face it and deal with it it frees you and you can move on in life. If you hide from it, the "it" will deal with you. When that happens it will be at the worst times, and the worst way.
It's terribly hard to face it, but so much easier in the long run if you do.

I am a big time hider, nobody knows the real me, even me.

^^^LOL, you could also be a stand-up comic.

Maybe, i watched a lot of stand up comedy growing up. No other adult had a clue so i watched them because they knew sh#t and observed society and talked about it and it was d@mn funny and also made sense, so i observed society as well but i never lived a real life because this world is not a good place to raise children in in my view, too afraid to commit to this place and still am.

who are facing the same opponents that you are. Maybe together, y'all can take down the bad guys.

The bad guys are one of the most powerful organizations in the united states.

Maybe they're working together as a team ,to keep track on what's working and not working for you. It might be so one doesn't repeat a treatment plan that has already been tried, so they don't repeat anything that isn't working. It could be an insurance issue too.If you see one doctor for something, some plans won't let you switch doctors and let them repeat the same test, if it's on the computer as done by someone else.
They do the same thing with meds, they don't want to give you something another doctor is giving you slready or a drug that has negative side effects with something you're taking right now

They need to collaborate for a myriad of reasons that all benefit you. Nothing will benefit you if you are game playing.Blaming others will not help.

Your games? I can understand if you aren't telling them some things, but playing games with them?

There were things I didn't tell my therapist for a long time. Eventually I think he learned everything I had to share to help me.

Just went to him today. Don't know if I needed therapy today, but I needed someone to talk to about my daughter and mormonism, AND family.

Better to be honest or you'll never find your way out.

I don't know if its games or just fear and avoidance. Only a small percentage of my real self comes out during therapy, i am so used to putting up a front that it has been hard to bring it down. You have to understand i have only seen a counselor for one year in 34 years of life, i have been self treating myself for the most part so it is all i know. Hide and avoid and runaway and maybe i will pass away normally like everyone else is the mindset i guess. We all pass away normally for the most part i guess. Except guys like me that want to do it themselves because we think we have the right, which we do but religion has brainwashed everyone to think that we don't have the right even if we suffer every day without cure or answers but oh we still want you here, either locked up and suffering or trying to live a normal life and suffering we still want you here. Jesus christ feel like i never had a choice, brought into this world against my will probably and i am just forced to accept it. Drill bullsh#t in my head constantly and then call me crazy for voicing what i have been f#cking taught since childhood. This world sucks for the tactics used against the children just pointing that out.

Me, too. I wanted to present a good front when I first went to each new therapist. I've been with this one long enough, that we've chipped through all the facade. I trust him 100% now, probably more than most people in my life. I feel relief when I am able to see him. I hadn't set up an appt (and my boyfriend kept telling me I needed to, he knows how much my therapist helps me see things logically instead of in trauma) and I had put myself on the cancellation list 3 months ago. Little did I know I still was on it and they called yesterday, so I took the appt. It is such a relief now to go. He's an exception to the rule as a therapist. I didn't much like the ones I went to before him.

We are supposed to act as though we've got it all together and we certainly don't want anyone to know that we don't.

I agree with the idea that I never asked to be here. How the hell did I get to this life? I have 2 kids, as everyone knows, and I am still here because of them and probably because I'm a coward. I can't do myself in. So I wait it out. At least I'm 60 and won't have to live all that much longer. So I get that. I really do. Even if my life is so much better. I'm tired. I'm really, really tired. I've served my sentence. I'm ready to move on except THOSE KIDS. No matter how much chaos they can cause me and pain.

Do your best to be open with your therapists. If you don't feel a good rapport with them, hopefully you can look around and find another one. You really have to shop around for therapists.

Now I challenge you to tell them what you just wrote in your reply to me.

My son and brother feel the same way you and I do. I want them both to hang around. My son has tried twice. I've often thought the same thing--if someone wants to die, why do we not allow them to? BUT I also see the other side of it. The pain you leave behind. Even if I hadn't been close friends with a friend of mine for a long time who killed herself, she had meant a lot to me in my life and when she killed herself, it impacted me A LOT. I can't imagine what her mother has been through. She had already lost her husband and other daughter to cancer.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/14/2017 09:35PM by cl2.

I suffered for atleast 17 years first mentally and then physically and it did not do a d@mn bit of good. My friends and i just thought it was a cruel joke that we suffered the most while everybody made fun of us at the same time. It felt like we were just distracting demons from everybody else onto ourselves and being constantly tormented, that is the way it felt atleast. Not living a normal life but just suffering for no reason until we no longer knew who we were or why we were here or what we even stood for.

Okay, wanker, I’m glad they’re on to you! I was thinking about you today, Badass. Underneath the hurt, there’s a quality man just itching to get out and be free. I read hurt—and hope—in your posts. You’re funny, smart, and friendly—yet afraid that folks won’t like the real Adam.

I’m sure your counselors see your potential and want to help with recovery—yet you’re worried about recovery because recovery means you have to recognize your own beauty and self-worth.

So, here’s the truth-you’re a good man, Badass. You’re like the rest of us—hurt, flawed, crusty—but quality stuff underneath the shit that’s piled up.

And being a good man means that you’re going to fuck up because we real men fuck up. Yeah, it’s reality check time—people fuck up, Adam. It’s what we do with ourselves AFTER we realize we’ve fuck up that bring wholeness into our lives.

Dammit, Badass, look in the fuckin’ mirror and see the real you. Now, introduce yourself (with all your imperfections) to your counselors. Let your guard down, be real!

Somehow, the real you always comes across in your posts. A good man who’s hurting, but longs to be healed. Now, stop that nonsense about hurting your Dad. He, too, is a product of a cult. He can’t help himself out of it because he doesn’t see the Morg’s manipulation and deception. Surely, you can forgive him for being fooled by a sophisticated hoax. Let the two of you off the hook, you’re both hurting. Fuck the hurt and pain, let your counselors help with this.

So here you go, wanker, a man you don’t know, whom you’ve never met believes in you and cares about you. Crazy, isn’t it? Thank God for Badasses!

I don't know what to do boner i feel they have pinned me into a corner that i thought i would never be in. I can find any excuse not to get better i don't even like exmos besides you boner just read what people write to me above i can turn people against me with the best of them and they will never quit thrashing until i return to the church for better treatment. its almost better to deal with the pretend friends in the church i was just thinking now, atleast they talk to me better atleast to my face. And i like dealing with people that i can see. Everybody gets brave and vicious on the internet. I would almost rather chant with zombies then deal with some exmos. Am i frail? Yes is there a good man underneath that has been through a lot of sh#t? You bet your ass but i would rather just find excuses and turn back but i don't know. I am used to making people think i am crazy when i am really not been playing the crazy role since i was seventeen after my first suicide attempt and everybody reinforced my craziness so i just rolled with it, i just keep pushing until somebody says psych ward i guess it is an excuse out of life which i have never been good at. Maybe i should return to church and try to make it what it was supposed to be or something, it can't be lonelier or worse then this, i just wont pay tithing or do rituals i don't know, wear jeans and a t-shirt. Atleast i can see and know what i am dealing with because i was raised in it. I don't know what i am saying.

What you just wrote is powerful. You want to heal, but are still afraid. It’s okay, Bro. Really.

Let’s cut through the chase, I like you and you like me. Why do I like you? I’m touched by what you write. And, I was a lot like you. Badass, I grew up in an emotionally and physically abusive home.


Why do you like me? Probably because I care about you and try to cheer you on. These are learned behaviors for me, they don’t come naturally. Badass, people can and do change. Sometimes, we’re our own worst enemies. We hurt ourselves because we’ve been hurt. It doesn’t have to be that way.

You mentioned the RfM posters above. They’re frustrated because they been hurt and want to read about your success. You told the truth, you’re frustrated and wondering if it’s all worth it. It’s hard to read when one of our own is hurting.

So, you may be mad at me, it’s okay. But, I need to start using the f word—Forgiveness. Forgive Adam, and you’ll feel better. I had to forgive my parents. Parents abuse because they were abused by their parents. It’s a nasty cycle. You can break it by doing something hard—forgive them and yourself for not being perfect. Dude, I’m a fuckup. But, I’d rather be a fuckup who doesn’t give a fuck about being perfect than a pretend man. I suspect you’re the same.

Embrace your roughness, earthiness, and imperfections. Be friendly and kind to others and you’ll find that people are kind and friendly back. I’m an old guy, Badass. My only real regret in life is that I didn’t see my own worth and potential until I was old. Don’t be like your Buddy, The Boner. Be the fuckin’ Badass Adam who takes control of his life now. Be open with the counselors, let them in. They’re not going to hurt you.

I love you Adam!

I am tired of being the fuck up boner, no matter how hard i try i can't seem to cross the barrier to the normality that everybody else is in apparently. I am taking a boatload of supplements right now that my doc wanted me to take to get my levels up quicker and i think its f#cking with me. I know i can get healthy, i have had like eight surgeries in a row, some at the same time, and i still have to get my neck done, and i just got a sleep machine, and i am taking a shitload of vitamins but i still don't feel normal or healthy, it is so f#cked. Why is it so hard to reach normality? According to my counselor its because i have been through a lot of sh#t for many years and it takes a while after being messed up for that long i guess. I don't have many real friends boner, my two closest friends are dead but i do have a couple friends in arizona still. I really thought i would be repaired by now and now i have to power through another d@mn winter and i don't want to be hospitalized because i got shut down again, i was hospitalized two winters ago and spent christmas and new years in the hospital, it sucks to be in the hospital with painful injuries, you would think you could just get repaired really quick in the hospital but that is definitely not the case. I don't even want to think about that right now.

I knew from your posts that your health issues were bad. You’ve been through a shitload of surgeries and complications. I’m so sorry for what you’re going through! I wish I had the power to just make things better. Your medical providers will do everything possible to get you healed. I just wish they can fix the physical pain,

I will always cheer you on Badass. I yearn for the day when you report that your health is better. You’re a strong and brave man, Adam.

Your post sears my heart. My most sincere wishes for your health and healing. This just sucks to know you’re hurting!

Feel like i made too many mistakes to come back from but it is hard to know for sure, this road was always impossible but it all started from a failed suicide attempt when i was 29, i was barely alive and functioning back then, its amazing how much damage one can do to themselves without dying. But every time i have fixed something there has always been another problem to fix whether it is mental or physical. I did not want to make a comeback at all, i wanted the f#ck out of this body and out of this world. But i was convinced to try by a friend before he died so i have been trying to figure out each problem one by one and it has been the hardest thing i have ever done.

I’m really glad you’re around. Keep trying, Adam! So many young men are hurting. My hope is you’ll be able to be there for someone who will need to hear your story of recovery.

Your counselors have a lot of tools and tricks in their bags, so I would let them help you. In my experience counselors know when and how to call in extra help. So let them to their job.

They seem to know what they are doing even if i have no idea what is being talked about when i am not around. I guess it bothered me when one of them told me they were kind of strategizing against my methods of avoidance and other things. The one i have seen the longest apparently knows me better than i think she does.

Hi badass, It's not that the counselor knows you better than you know yourself, it's that the counselor knows the disease that is *not* you, better than you, and can spot and diagnose the symptoms as clearly as an oncologist can spot a cancer growth on a scanner.

PTSD is *not* you.

Avoidance behavior is *not* you.

Suicidal tendencies are *not* you.

You feel like these thing are you, because you've likely had PTSD most of your life. Using cancer as an example again, just because it wasn't yet seen or named by a doctor, doesn't mean it wasn't there.

So you got a good counselor, who looked at all of the evidence and data presented, has correctly diagnosed PTSD, and *knows* what the illness entails. She is trying to help *you* see that avoidance behavior and suicide ideation are a *part of the illness,* not *a part of you.*

Again, you are NOT the symptoms of the illness.

Would anyone in his right mind look at someone with cancer and say, "Let's just pretend we don't know it's there. Let's just ignore the symptoms, even though this illness can kill you, and hope it gets better on its own."

Of course not!

The counselor doesn't *know your tricks." The counselor knows how PTSD fucks with you. HUGE difference. She can run her finger down the list of sympomts written in books, and see that if you have three or five of these symptoms, (or whatever), then you are suffering from PTSD, and the rest of the symptoms (that you think you can "hide") are highly likely to be present as well.

Think about this for a minute, badass. Just give it a chance. PTSD has tried to kill you, and nearly did. Just like someone who fought and won against cancer, you survived that round. You open your eyes, and fuck, the pain is still there, and shit, the only thing you can do is try to beat its ass again. Pain gets old, quick. And when you've been fighting it most of your life, you feel old.

But there are good moments, right? Moments when you see the sun and the future and the possibilities of what your life can become. THAT is what the counselor, Boner, I, and many others see, so-called *hiding* under the illness. The real, unavoidable, beautiful badass. I don't -and never will- see you as the symtoms of PTSD.

And what Boner says is right. No matter how awful you're feeling, a beautiful man comes shining through, even when you're at your worst. You can't feel that yet, maybe you don't even want to believe it (yet), but you are there.

Now, a word about avoidance behavior (AB) and triggers.

Both suck, big, hairy donkey dicks, big time. That would be because they are symptoms of an illness, and you have been diagnosed as having that illness. This is how I think of them:

AB is how to avoid triggers, but having and working through triggers is what diminishes AB. BUT, being triggered too much brings on suicidal thoughts, so that is the big talk about "remaining safe" when you're triggered.

Go too fast, and the illness will kill you. Avoid triggers alltogether, and you never get rid of them.

Talk about a mind fuck.

But for me (and most, I think), that's the plain unvarnished math of it. Your counselors have done that math, and are helping you sharpen your pencils, use your erasers.

And it's also the reason you *think* you can't decide to stay on or leave the board. You come on here, get info and support, feel that, but then you get triggered and suicidal. Over time, you are not as easily triggered as you were in the beginning, and that's beacause you *bing bing bing* worked through that particular trigger, and no longer need to avoid *that particular trigger.* Being triggered, working through it, means that you can be free of avoidance behaviors.

Is it possible that some part of you understands that, understands that there is no way around triggers, that to heal them, you have to go through them? Of course there is. That would be that part of badass fighting so hard to recover. So, you keep coming back. And that would be the OPPOSITE of "avoidance behavior." *CHEERS FOR BADASS!*

You are not PTSD.

You are badassadam.

And you rock. :)


As for going back to the morg, I see that sort of like an eagle wanting to be in the safety of a cage. It does not compute. That's the short version, because I gotta pay the rent, but I hope you think about it.

Be gentle to yourself. :) Be kind to our badass.

If the PTSD is not me then who the hell is it? A false creation of the real adam or something? I always wondered why i avoid and hide so much without even thinking about it. It is what i do and have been doing for as long as i can remember. And it is a mind-f#ck trying to get better. But it is not like i am dying in my sleep so i don't think i have much of a choice.

It can take a while to figure out who you are. It's called the school of life. Over time, and with added experience and wisdom, you will get it figured out.

I used to hide and cover up on my therapist. It took me years to learn to trust her. I have been in therapy with the same therapist for more than ten years now. For the first five years, I gave her a lot of runaround. Not outright lies, just runaround, because I had learned through sad experience that people can't be trusted with my stuff--including other therapists. Finally I learned that this therapist can be trusted! The last five years of "real" therapy have been enormously beneficial to me. I have been able to permanently break ties with abusive family without any guilt. And I was able to leave the Mormon church. FINALLY! Most of the members in my area turned out to be highly dysfunctional personalities, enabling themselves to feel holy at MY expense. This is why almost all the people that the missionaries here managed to baptize in the last 35 years dropped out after only a few months or even a few weeks. People come to sense when others are toxic to be around. Love-bombing is a dirty trick, and most people tend to figure it out.

Therapy is now helping me to repair from the enormous damage done by "sticking it out" in a very unhealthy church no matter the ward or stake. Some are healthier than others, but frankly the whole Mormon system is toxic. I truly believed that God would punish me for leaving and finding another church. Other people had left and were happily attending other churches, but I somehow thought that God would single me out and set me up with punishment as an example to others! After years and years of toxicity from family and church, it can take years to be able to trust even the best therapist. But with the right therapist, it will come eventually.

The one therapist i have seen for a year and a half is pretty d@mn good. I do the runaround like nobody else, and nothing gets talked about that was supposed to be talking about. I have learned these behaviors by being in the abusive family i was in, i always had to hide and pretend around my father. I thought my father and counselors and psychiatrists were all in the same group against me and that is hard to overcome when you feel everyone is against you. I tried to excommunicate myself when i was about 20 years old but my father got so angry that i just left it alone. I truly felt that i had no power against the church, it was god's way by force or the highway. And the very worst part of it all was finding out it was possibly a fraud and i was treated poorly from a lie i tried to escape. A part of my mind still thinks that god runs that church and he is a weirdo or something and i just don't understand his ways. It is all a big mindf#ck, all my suffering was because of a f#cking lie that i felt since i was a kid that something was very off about the organization. But the suffering still happened and i am still paying for it.

I have suffered throughout my life coming from a toxic non lds family. I ran away at 14 and joined the cult. I didn’t know what I was doing. So I suffered clinical depression and anxiety for decades. I have been in and out of therapy for 20 years. But I wasn't diagnosed with PTSD until three years ago. The therapists missed a major disorder and so my recovery was incomplete. I was determined to heal so I just kept going to specialized therapy for PTSD. I have met quack therapists. Learning from my own mistakes and those of others takes many years. I can relate to your feeling like you are drowning in quicksand. It's hard to hold on. But you must because you have a life worth living that you get to design. It's one day at a time. Don't quit. Detach from the cult by doing things for yourself that bring you some happiness. We grow the most when we move out of our comfort zone. Therapy is a place to detox and get the cult poison out of your soul. So yes, spiritual surgery is very painful. But it's less painful than continuing to carry a mountain of cult garbage on you back. Going back to the cult will make things worse. Make new friends that respect you and will help you.

Therapy is a safe place and a detox for sure. Its a battle between worlds, the cult world which is strong as f#ck, or the real world which is scary as f#ck. Both options suck in my head, but i already did the cult thing and i really was a good servant when i applied myself but it was never enough and i never got healed like i wanted. I would be sooo much more miserable in the cult then i am now. People think i talk and act crazy now but i was way worse in the church. Talk about being triggered every two seconds.