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Posted by: Cheryl ( )
Date: November 30, 2017 02:43PM

He was embarrassed by Operation Seagull in the 1950s. It was a major law enforcement operation intended to curb the spread and abuses in the mormon fundamentalist polygamous groups. Until then, many members didn't realize how widespread plural marriage was even when their own ward members practiced it. But the news started to highlight the raids and arrests which embarrassed church leaders and members. There were a couple of major articles with photos in national magazines of that time. Outsiders were shocked that this was going on in modern America.

David O. met with civil officials and promised to stamp out the practice of plural marriage if they would leave it to him and back off. He said the church would weed out offenders and force them to repent of their ways. They'd have to
be baptized again and live with only one wife or suffer excommunication which would mean public humiliation and losing all respect of their friends, customers, employers and neighbors. In other words they'd be completely ruined and driven out.

What David O. actually did was to add one more question to the list for obtaining a temple recommend. It's the one about associating with apostates. Anyone who answered yes had to explain and be counseled which was an inconvenience. Very few polygamists were excommunicated unless they were too obvious to ignore.

My family's plyg ties were overlooked because we lied and covered up.

My conclusion is that David O. McKay was a liar who cared more about image than protecting the victims of a practice his church started and still believed. He covered up as much of the embarrassment as possible and went right on with his friendly easy going ways, accepting adoration from his followers and reassuring civil authorities that polygamy was waning and almost gone.

The reality is that mormon polygamy has grown faster than the mainstream church. There are now more and bigger groups and not much is done about it. Many people in and out of Utah claim that these people have a right to marry little brainwashed minor children because we have to respect religion.

After having two or more kiddies most of the wives are absorbed into the culture with no way out and no concept of life beyond being barefoot and pregnant. Many don't know how to drive a car or ride a bus. Some can't read well or do basic math. Many are frightened of outsiders and the scary things they see on trips outside their compounds.

Those who say all adults should have whatever kind of group marriage they care to try are missing the point. Being indoctrinated from birth and in a forced marriage as a child means they can't deal with a normal life style. They're stuck. And they have many children to worry about with no way to support them on their own.

What should be done?

Stop worshiping David O. McKay for letting members have dances and road shows when what he needed to do was to keep his word and stop the heartache still going on in mormon splinter groups throughout the West.

If the mormon church didn't protect this practice it would not continue to grow. They started it, still support it and still plan to live it either now or in heaven. There are still polygamous members attending regular ward. There are still polygamous families and groups next door to stake houses or selling their products to the mainstream church. My polygamous brother in the Allred group traveled far and wide installing upgraded windows in mormon ward houses.

I know people like to say I'm mean for my stand on this issue. Well, let them. I'd rather be called mean than let more generations of victims waste their lives in such an evil cause.

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Posted by: mootman ( )
Date: November 30, 2017 03:23PM

There must be a secret handbook that a secret cabal of cult leaders use
And in it, chapter one is "Create oppressive lifestyles and establish 2 generations practicing it"
Because once that second generation gets going in it, you can't stop it. They will never let it go.
Fact is, I don't know if McKay could have stopped it. It was too established within folks' family traditions by then. The sick tradition had been deeply established for at least 3 or 4 generations by the time McKay was the big cheese.
What he could have done to reduce harm, or do some good, I'm not sure

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Posted by: Soft Machine ( )
Date: November 30, 2017 04:05PM

"Create oppressive lifestyles and establish 2 generations practicing it"

This is true. A modern example is $cientology.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/30/2017 04:06PM by Soft Machine.

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Posted by: elderolddog ( )
Date: November 30, 2017 03:54PM

For all his folksy, Kentucky fried chicken charm, he put the organization ahead of the members. We were there for the GA's benefit, rather than the way it should have been.

He went along with Moyle and let the financials become secret and he didn't want to rock the boat by admitting the Black Curse was bullshit.

The most famous thing he said, in my mind, I took for wisdom, when in fact, it was murder most foul: "What'er thou art, act well thy part.", which I took as advice for being a good spokesman (missionary) for the church: pretend you were what you wanted to be.

He and the GAs turned it around and pretended to have our best interests at heart... The liars!

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Posted by: anon no longer ( )
Date: November 30, 2017 10:51PM

Don't forget he also stole the "No other success…" quote. I bet just about every Mormon alive thinks that line was original to him.

http://exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,409933

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Posted by: Amyjo ( )
Date: November 30, 2017 03:54PM

McKay was known for his easy going, loving nature.

I did not know he was an enabler for the polyg families in and around Utah during his reign as president of the cult.

He wore the facade well.

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Posted by: ificouldhietokolob ( )
Date: November 30, 2017 04:17PM

Either it never occurred to McKay that polys would lie about being polygs, or he didn't care.

Your post seems to clearly indicate the latter.
And the reasons for it.

Another "leader" putting the church's "image" far above the harm being done to real, live people.

Ugh.

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Posted by: scmd ( )
Date: November 30, 2017 06:00PM

I agree. Hell, he was far from the last to allow road shows and
dances. beyond that, didn't McKay more or less set the wheels in motion for the priesthood correlation program, which indirectly led to all sorts of micromanagement to express it mildly?

Cheryl Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> He was embarrassed by Operation Seagull in the
> 1950s. It was a major law enforcement operation
> intended to curb the spread and abuses in the
> mormon fundamentalist polygamous groups. Until
> then, many members didn't realize how widespread
> plural marriage was even when their own ward
> members practiced it. But the news started to
> highlight the raids and arrests which embarrassed
> church leaders and members. There were a couple of
> major articles with photos in national magazines
> of that time. Outsiders were shocked that this was
> going on in modern America.
>
> David O. met with civil officials and promised to
> stamp out the practice of plural marriage if they
> would leave it to him and back off. He said the
> church would weed out offenders and force them to
> repent of their ways. They'd have to
> be baptized again and live with only one wife or
> suffer excommunication which would mean public
> humiliation and losing all respect of their
> friends, customers, employers and neighbors. In
> other words they'd be completely ruined and driven
> out.
>
> What David O. actually did was to add one more
> question to the list for obtaining a temple
> recommend. It's the one about associating with
> apostates. Anyone who answered yes had to explain
> and be counseled which was an inconvenience. Very
> few polygamists were excommunicated unless they
> were too obvious to ignore.
>
> My family's plyg ties were overlooked because we
> lied and covered up.
>
> My conclusion is that David O. McKay was a liar
> who cared more about image than protecting the
> victims of a practice his church started and still
> believed. He covered up as much of the
> embarrassment as possible and went right on with
> his friendly easy going ways, accepting adoration
> from his followers and reassuring civil
> authorities that polygamy was waning and almost
> gone.
>
> The reality is that mormon polygamy has grown
> faster than the mainstream church. There are now
> more and bigger groups and not much is done about
> it. Many people in and out of Utah claim that
> these people have a right to marry little
> brainwashed minor children because we have to
> respect religion.
>
> After having two or more kiddies most of the wives
> are absorbed into the culture with no way out and
> no concept of life beyond being barefoot and
> pregnant. Many don't know how to drive a car or
> ride a bus. Some can't read well or do basic math.
> Many are frightened of outsiders and the scary
> things they see on trips outside their compounds.
>
>
> Those who say all adults should have whatever kind
> of group marriage they care to try are missing the
> point. Being indoctrinated from birth and in a
> forced marriage as a child means they can't deal
> with a normal life style. They're stuck. And they
> have many children to worry about with no way to
> support them on their own.
>
> What should be done?
>
> Stop worshiping David O. McKay for letting members
> have dances and road shows when what he needed to
> do was to keep his word and stop the heartache
> still going on in mormon splinter groups
> throughout the West.
>
> If the mormon church didn't protect this practice
> it would not continue to grow. They started it,
> still support it and still plan to live it either
> now or in heaven. There are still polygamous
> members attending regular ward. There are still
> polygamous families and groups next door to stake
> houses or selling their products to the mainstream
> church. My polygamous brother in the Allred group
> traveled far and wide installing upgraded windows
> in mormon ward houses.
>
> I know people like to say I'm mean for my stand on
> this issue. Well, let them. I'd rather be called
> mean than let more generations of victims waste
> their lives in such an evil cause.

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Posted by: Shummy ( )
Date: November 30, 2017 06:15PM

Yes, the new correlation program was announced at the first closed wire priesthood meeting I attended as a new deacon.

That woulda been in 1962 or thereabouts.

I thought it was some kinda cool new revelation.

I had no idea that it actually was the death knell of the remaining few things that were cool about being a Mormon.

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Posted by: Buckles ( )
Date: November 30, 2017 07:16PM

I actually have great respect for David O. McKay.

To each his own.

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Posted by: Cheryl ( )
Date: November 30, 2017 08:12PM

To each his own.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/30/2017 08:13PM by Cheryl.

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Posted by: Bamboozled ( )
Date: December 01, 2017 08:39AM

McKay was no different than those before or those after him. Indeed, all of the FP, Q12 and Q70 are just defenders of the faith - meaning defend the church at all costs. Keep the thing moving along. The organism known as the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints is all that matters.

Individuals are and have always been expendable.

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