What changed? Did you reason your way out of it or did something else happen to change your mind?

These theories don't help anything. Obviously, the powerful control things. The very wealthy are very powerful. They know one another and meet in private. They fund think tanks to create policy that favors them. Piling up records of their meetings and publications doesn't slow them down any. Our real tools are protest and voting. We only count in numbers.

The upshot is that conspiracies are real. As a group, the powerful work against the common good for their own avaricious interests. This is why we had unions, not because we were commies.

https://www.ranker.com/list/conspiracy-theories-that-turned-out-to-be-true/mike-rothschild
Some conspiracies that were genuine.

These are good examples

If you believe the resources of the plant are limitless or that happiness is directly related to the amount of stuff one possesses or how much time one has to loaf on one's ever-widening ass, it's perfectly fine if the economy isn't a zero sum game.

Historically speaking, trade unions exist because of bad employers.

Just look at the correlation between the decline in wages and the decline in union membership if you want to stop believing the BS you spout above.

I never really did. The concept of Occam’s razor made sense to me long before I ever heard the term.

Unfortunately, I can’t explain why it took me so many decades to apply critical thinking to TSCC.

I agree. Plus, I always thought conspiracy theories were silly and boring.

I also realized pretty early on that NO ONE can keep their mouth shut for long, much less everyone forever.

https://foxfrank13.wixsite.com/howardjhawk

How about this conspiracy theory. Thanks.

I still love a good conspiracy theory.

What caused me to suspend belief in them was a documentary that disproved all the JFK conspiracies.

After seeing it I had to admit they were all bunk.

An unsubstantiated theory is always more fun than dealing with facts.
Are there conspiracies out there? Of course there are! Humans conspire together all the time. I think that the issue is more "To what degree?"
Anyone who wishes may contest t his theory!

Yes. It's not a question of there being conspiracies. It's the scope and breadth of some of the alleged conspiracies that makes them highly unlikely. The thousands of people that would have to be involved to pull off a fake moon landing or a government-planned 9/11 (for two prominent examples), and then to keep them all quiet, would make their successful execution nearly impossible.

lurking in Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The thousands of people that would have
> to be involved to pull off a fake moon landing or
> a government-planned 9/11 (for two prominent
> examples), and then to keep them all quiet, would
> make their successful execution nearly impossible.

How many thousands of people have been offed for blabbing about their involvement in the Apollo or Silverstein hoaxs.

The list would would astound you.

The need-to-know principle keeps the circle way below thousands.

Loose lips earn Gus Grissom's comeuppance.

But no longer, and this question is clearly a "set-up" involving "dichotomous" thinking...

I looked at all of those 19 conspiracies that were "proven true," and I was familiar with maybe half of them...

JMHO, (and probably that of Vince Bugliosi, the fellow who prosecuted Charles Manson, and wrote a very concise volume nuking all of the JFK conspiracy notions to date; I'm sure there are probably new ones), but with conspiracies, the "common element" is they tend to come unraveled quickly, or at least rise to the level of "public knowledge" fairly soon.

With Watergate, for example, all of the major names, G. Gordon Liddy and E. Howard Hunt, for example, were known within days or weeks.

I lived through the years following the JFK murder, and it was five years before I even saw anything; okay Google tells me Mark Lane's book was written three years after...

To bring this back to "on-topic," I do find it intersting to consider how much of a conspiracy was involved in producing the Book of Mormon (having great respect, as I do, for Craig Criddle).

Just off the top of my hat, those events took place when there wasn't nearly the possibiity of "media scrutiny" that there is today.

Food for thought; what we do see, again IMO, is that the narcissistic element of "groupthink" is operative among those who "engage in conspiracies."



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/03/2017 05:10AM by SL Cabbie.

I don't believe in conspiracy theories either. I do believe in investigating them. To dismiss them as merely fiction without an investigation would be quite foolish, wouldn't it?

I don't believe either. I think its probably because of my years

believing in the church. Now I am not as gullible or naieve as I

was before. I never take anyone's word for things. I have to see

it before I believe it.

That has served me well.

It is not a conspiracy theory.

Adding the word theory to conspiracy confuses the issues. The expression is what is called a "thought stopper. When someone hears that they tend to dismiss the idea that something might actually be a real conspiracy.

Throughout history greedy and powerful groups and individuals have conspired to do all sorts of malicious acts, all for their gain and control over others less powerful. It's the nature of mankind to do so.

I never used to believe in them....but after 9/11 and the controlled implosion of those buildings, I do now.

Conspiracy theories are actually far less interesting than the people that get caught up in them.

I worked with someone who I had to tell not to send me further emails about 9/11. These rambling screeds made no sense, and quite frankly, they had a very anti-semitic tone to them. I knew people who were at the Pentagon that day. I was offended on several levels, but suddenly felt like I could now see right through this colleague. He was clearly hurting from something, but instead of facing whatever "it" was, he was distracting himself on his quixotic quest.

I also played tennis with the guy that was trying to explain to me that gravity was a hoax. I actually wasn't aware of this one, but it is also tied into the flat earthers, which I also did not know. Every comment I made and every question I posed just pissed him off more. At home, I read up on this one and had new insights. After he left, a friend of his explained how bitter he had been professionally as an African American man (who is now in his 70's) who had never been treated with the respect he felt he deserved given his PhDs from Berkeley.

As I said, it isn't the theories, but the people who have an almost religious devotion to them that I find very interesting. I also think that it is something that Western democracies are going to need to better understand. I think the growth of conspiracy theories, far right parties and general alienation are all linked.

One of the biggest lies we've been sold is that conspiracies aren't real. Conspiracies are very real and play a big role in shaping the world we live in.

Felix,
Give us an example of a very real conspiracy

And some *theories* are accurate.

Examples are the theories of evolution and relativity.

Many accused me of wearing a tin foil hat because I said mormons were harassing me more than others. Nope, it was true. My TBM relatives were putting them up to it and I happened to live in an area where "fellowshipping" was a major priority. An exmo who was a BYU roommate of these locals filled me in on the details.

It's the imaginary non-sensical things that are.

until the facts become more clear.

To bring this thread on topic, here other theories I perpetrated which were proven correct: First, I said that there were TBMs likely viewing this site and reporting to LDS authorities. Turned our to be fact although I couldn't prove it at the time and suffered ridicule and insults galore.

Another: I said groups of TBMs likely meet and plan strategies on how to manipulate targeted inactives or exmos in many wards. I was told I was dead wrong by dozens of posters, many I thought to be TBMs. Turns out what I thought was factual.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/04/2017 01:26PM by Cheryl.

And any reasonable person outside the Zion Curtain wouldn't dismiss that possibility. Very different from saying aliens built the Pyramids or black helicopters are taking people away to UN camps in the desert to implant mind control microchips in them.

Cheryl Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> And some *theories* are accurate.
>
> Examples are the theories of evolution and
> relativity.

Eh, the usage of the word "theory" in the context of evolution or relatively is very different than the unsubstantiated, batsh_t crazy claims of the conspiracy lunatics. Put another way, evolution is a fact, Queen Elizabeth being a lizard alien is retarded.

The use of 'conspiracy theories' is here and elsewhere used as a throwaway all-encompassing pejorative as if to say 'Oh look at me -- I'm so logical -- you won't find me being duped.'

If you or I didn't do the dirty deed, if it wasn't an act of God, it's a conspiracy. Mormonism is a conspiracy. MMM is a conspiracy.

Many branded conspiracy theories - such as America's long-playing record of False Flag Attacks - are remarkably well researched.

'Conspiracy theory' often is used willy-nilly as an epithet for 'I can't be bothered to read a book or do the research'. (The same applies to those who feel driven to post messages that they don't care about a subject - the existence of Jesus for example. Far easier to declare a non-interest in the subject that go to the bother of reading a book.)

As Master Benson has pointed out, it's not the declaration or non-declaration of a conspiracy that counts but the evidence. To some, researching the Illuminati and the New World Order is enormous fun, to others the whole kerbang is one big yawn.

Anyways must dash. It's early evening in London and me and Elvis are out for a night on the town.

Depends on the conspiracy theory in question. Always question them and find facts.

I've followed many and some were proven to be bogus, some remain unknown, some will never be released because it hides behind national security letters or Governments who have released what the narrative story will be and projected onto the public.


Some are too old to know for sure. Like, Where did we all come from / the origins of man? There are many responses to that over the 1000s of years.

This thread flushes out a motherload of sub-threads each debating why 'insert conspiracy here' is actually the truth and everyone battling to argue for or against.

The amount of times i've debated and walked through the facts on planting explosives in buildings re: 911 to explain that is was NOT a planned demolition, or had to show people the plane parts from the Pentagon attack to demonstrate 'hey it was actually a plane'.

Conspiracy theories thrive and survive on a lack of understanding of the actual evidence.

lilburne Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> This thread flushes out a motherload of
> sub-threads each debating why 'insert conspiracy
> here' is actually the truth and everyone battling
> to argue for or against.
>
> The amount of times i've debated and walked
> through the facts on planting explosives in
> buildings re: 911 to explain that is was NOT a
> planned demolition, or had to show people the
> plane parts from the Pentagon attack to
> demonstrate 'hey it was actually a plane'.
>
> Conspiracy theories thrive and survive on a lack
> of understanding of the actual evidence.


Since you 'claim' to have 'walked through the facts to show people the plane parts from the pentagon' ----- please post them!

I am military and a remote viewer and have reviewed many photos of the 'pentagon' immediately after the attack and cannot see any obvious 'plane parts'.

It appears to me based on the photos I have reviewed the plane must have totally disintegrated ----- which of course is highly unlikely!

I'm not interested in trawling through this again. If you want to believe it was a conspiracy feel free. But you could simply use google and specifically search for the images on line, there are plenty of them.

lilburne Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I'm not interested in trawling through this again.
> If you want to believe it was a conspiracy feel
> free. But you could simply use google and
> specifically search for the images on line, there
> are plenty of them.


Enough said!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

We all know why you will not provide any 'evidence' of a plane hitting the pentagon because a 'plane' did not hit the pentagon!! This is very similar to your other 'arguments' on this site ----- BS!!!!

The pics taken by pentagon cameras are on the net and clearly show 'no plane' ----- most likely a cruise missile!

9/11 is the motherload. It is so convoluted and complex and mysterious. Many questions and lots of "answers" and evidence never presented to the public. When evidence is released it makes it hard for investigative reporters to follow up. It took over a decade to release 28 pages from the congressional Joint Inquiry into Intelligence Community Activities Before and After the Terrorist Attacks of September 11. Even then, there are still redactions on this stale data.

If a similar event were to happen again I don't think it could be pulled off with the way social media spreads.

By the way.... worth mentioning.


The Term “Conspiracy Theory” Was Invented by the CIA In Order To Prevent Disbelief of Official Government Stories and attack any skeptic not buying into whoever is selling a story to the public.


The term “conspiracy theory” was developed by the CIA as a means of undercutting critics of the Warren Commission’s report that President Kennedy was killed by Oswald.

The use of this term was heavily promoted in the media by the CIA.

Therefore, the term is relatively new and invented by the Central Intelligence Agency. Imagine that.

It is ironic that the American left is a major enforcer of the CIA’s strategy to shut up skeptics by branding them conspiracy theorists.


Kind of like Russia-Gate MSM narrative promoted for 2 years, or the Las Vegas shooting official story.

Since the first use of the term was in a 1909 "American Historical Review" article -- long before the CIA existed -- your claim is (ahem) another nonsensical "conspiracy theory" that's easily proven false.

Try some critical thinking and actual research instead of just "believing" claims made by nutcases.

Actual research = You googled some more.

Ok. Thanks for the information. Sounds like Google ranks need some tweaking.

Nice link explaining some of these things that your "actual research" confirms.

https://www.csicop.org/specialarticles/show/nope_it_was_always_already_wrong

Phazer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Actual research = You googled some more.

Actually, I've read the article in which it's credited as being first used. In original form, not a digital copy. I read it years ago.

Don't assume.:)

Well this is dumb Phazer. Two already from Trump's campaign admitting to lying to the FBI? That's not a conspiracy theory. Try some critical thinking for once.

To answer your request moehoward (Q: give us an example of a very real conspiracy) there are many I could use as an example. This is a huge topic and I have limited time but if anyone is interested in doing a dive into the subject I will take it up as I have time.

con·spir·a·cy
kənˈspirəsē/
noun
noun: conspiracy; plural noun: conspiracies

a secret plan by a group to do something unlawful or harmful.

Would trafficking of illegal narcotics by elements of our CIA and DEA qualify as a conspiracy. I would love to mention many but that would complicate the discussion.

Yes. Now it is Conspiracy realism. Pretty well documented. The CIA and DEA have ceased to stop. Heroin market is $1.2 to $2 Trillion per year.

Anyone that thinks drugs make it into this country because smugglers are so sneaky and better informed than the intelligence community is fooling themselves.

It is managed and bankers take their cut from the laundering of funds and Guns and armaments still flow around the world.

However, these stay behind networks and CIA linked underground folks are starting to have their networks taken down. The Saudi financiers are hanging from the toes spilling their guts and current administration is taking down these networks.

I expect to see a drop off in drug smuggling with the new sheriff in town uninterested in narco dealings, double dealing, jihadi army building etc.

Your, obviously, misinformed view of the international trade of illicit items is, unintentionally, hilarious. How does it feel to be an uneducated, conspiracy believing, low rent, dipshit?

Oh, are you involved in the practice and can enlighten me about why I'm wrong on this?

Ever heard of the investigative reporter called Gary Webb? How about Barry Seal? Look up the Ted Shackley the "Blond Ghost"

You're probably a movie person. Go watch Kill the messenger.

Syria and Libya was all about arming jihadi rebels. Tracking down arms sales. Ask Marc Turi the arms dealer knew all about it. Federal Government dropped his case because they would be expose doing weapon sales if the case moved forward.

We armed Jihadis in the 80s to fight against communists in Afghanistan.
We've been arming these guys for a long time.

Yes, Saudis are hanging from their toes over at the Ritz Carlton hotel

That's ok, if you don't know. Look up some books from Douglas Valentine.

Good place to start http://spartacus-educational.com/JFKshackley.htm

Ha ha ha. This is dumb once again Phazer. Not interested in building Jihadi armies? Too funny. By making Jerusalem the recognized capital of Israel, that is precisely what the new Sheriff um MORON will do.

Current President has not interest in arming terrorists like past presidents.

I have a theory that all these conspiracy theories are being
created by the government to keep us from suspecting what's
really going on.

Now that sounds like another plausible conspiracy theory baura.
Maybe you could share evidence of this theory with us. Evidence is needed and must be carefully evaluated before we get too concerned but it is possible.

I've always thought conspiracy theories were pretty stupid. A lot of them involve pseudoscience, unsubstantiated claims, illogical conclusions, or some muddy mixture of them all. Some are as brain dead, or more so, than Young Earth Creationism. And this is a pretty high bar when it comes to idiocy.

Yes, there have been real conspiracies in history, some of which exposed, some less well documented. That doesn't mean shape-shifting reptilian overlords control the world via chemtrails, water fluoridation, and (the now shut down) HAARP array. ;)

Laughing out loud! We don't believe in conspiracy, but we believed Mormonism. By definition a conspiracy theory. People living in the times of kings and queens believed in the nobility to rule, another conspiracy. Nazism and communism in the 20th century? Conspiracy brought it to power! How about a monetary system controlled by dubious interests is today's world?

The chapters of history are footnoted by conspiracy. Shit doesn't magically happen!

You really think its not happening now? If you don't I have some prime land on Pluto to sell you. Rumor has it its going to be upgraded to a planet again!

Saying you don't believe in some people conspire is believing anti Mormon isn't true. Some bullshit some true.

Wake up.

Thinking Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Wake up.


Please, for your safety and those around you, get some professional help. It can get better for you. Good luck.

I don't know anything about shape shifting reptilians Red, do you? I know a little about chem-trails but not a lot. I could share some evidence that covert gio-ingeneering (had to misspell the word to get it to post here) takes place and you could judge for yourself it it has credibility. I can't tell you the purpose as it is not openly acknowledged by those involved. I could let ex-CIA Kevin Shipp explain how Government keeps them silent. Fluoridation in the water concern's me a little and I have a friend who is a doctor who has done considerable research. He, I am sure, could provide strong evidence that it isn't healthy in our water. Have you done any research into HAARP and what can you tell us about it? I have done some research on it but not a lot.

He or she called it an "array", which is accurate, but little known by the common man on the street.

Several countries have banned putting fluoride into the water.

Google: the-fluoride-deception-whats-added-to-your-water-supply/

Kevin Shipp on youtube has an excellent book and 50 minute video on youtube explaining what is considered the shadow government and deep state you all keep hearing about in the news.

Felix Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I don't know anything about shape shifting
> reptilians Red, do you?

It is, arguably, the most moronic conspiracy theory out there. David Icke came up with it and he claims many of the powerful people in this world are actually shape-shifting lizard aliens. The truly horrifying aspect? Millions of loons believe him.

> I know a little about
> chem-trails but not a lot. I could share some
> evidence that covert gio-ingeneering (had to
> misspell the word to get it to post here) takes
> place and you could judge for yourself it it has
> credibility.

Credibility? Um, no, it doesn't. Chemtrails have been thoroughly debunked.

> I can't tell you the purpose as it is
> not openly acknowledged by those involved. I could
> let ex-CIA Kevin Shipp explain how Government
> keeps them silent. Fluoridation in the water
> concern's me a little and I have a friend who is a
> doctor who has done considerable research. He, I
> am sure, could provide strong evidence that it
> isn't healthy in our water.

I didn't say anything about the medical implications of fluoridation. My comment was about the very old and very stupid conspiracy theory that it is a communist plot.

> Have you done any
> research into HAARP and what can you tell us about
> it? I have done some research on it but not a lot.

Yes. That research project is now done and over with. The claims made about said by the conspiracy crew were simply physically impossible. That didn't stop people with zero knowledge of the field from making up wild claims about it.

Mr. Big uses big words but any evidence is actually small. Mr. Small from now on unless you actually provide some evidence.

Red Wrote:Credibility? Um, no, it doesn't. Chemtrails have been thoroughly debunked.

My evidence (there is much more):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jHm0XhtDyZA

If you want to take up a discussion about the realities od HAARP and its ominous capabilities I'm game but one at a time.

I definitely am a strong believer in Conspiracy Theories. The boogyman behind them all in Satan. His #1 mission right now is to destroy the Church and try to get people to think its not a TRUE church. If he can ever convince anyone that the Church is not completely consistent, honest, and transparent on all their finances, statistics, doctrines, and history then Satan would succeed at undermining testimonies because people would say "it can't be true because its not honest". Thus it sure keeps the Brethren, middle managers, and all the minions needing to work extra hard all the time to prop up the Church's reputation of being so lightning fast thorough and fully transparent about being true :)

Now if I'm at all wrong on this then you should run like heck away from the Church because your life and time is to precious to allow for it to be sucked away by some stupid silly Cult. However the Brethren have not told me that I need to worry about this as they prefer that I just keep my shoulder to the wheel being completely obedient on everything, especially in doubting all my Doubts. Through obedience it sure helps fill up the Lord's treasury and give the Brethren more blessings of authority over our lives.