Now chatting with: Francesca and Skylar

Nick 12:44 PM
Hi I saw an ad on FB saying I could get real answers to real questions here. Is that true?

Skylar 12:44 PM
Absolutely!

Nick 12:44 PM
I read Joseph Smith had 34 wives, 11 of whom were teenagers and another 11 of whom were already married to faithful LDS priesthood holders. Is that true?
I read it on LDS.org.
"Plural Marriage in Kirtland and Nauvoo"
Is that fact shared with prospective members before they join?

Francesca 12:47 PM
That can be a really difficult thing to understand because polygamy in our day is obviously wrong. I think it's important to remember that He was alive during a different time period first of all. It was the 1800s and culture was different. He might have actually had more wives then that, so you are right that he had plural wives, and a lot of them were teenage because a lot of people got married when they were teenagers during that time. I'm not sure about the faithful LDS priesthood holders part though.
We would never hide that from anyone, and if people have questions we wouldn't hesitate to answer them. The people that want to join are also asked to go to church before joining the church where things like this are taught, but I don't think it's something that we dwell on because it's not a part of our practices any more.

Nick 12:49 PM
Henry Jacobs served 8 missions for the church and Joseph Smith 'married" his wife Zina while he was away on a mission for the church. After Joseph's death, Brigham sent Henry on another overseas mission and 'married' (Stole) Henry's wife and kids. Destroying his family life, obviously. Does that seem right or wrong to you?

Francesca 12:49 PM
It sounds like you already know a lot about this though, what are your intentions coming on today?

Nick 12:50 PM
To see if I can get an honest answer out of a Mormon for once, apparently not.

Francesca 12:50 PM
Our answers are always sincere, whether or not they are what people want to hear. We are sorry if you feel otherwise.

Nick 12:51 PM
I was a member for 40 years and NEVER in that time did anybody breath a word about Joseph's addtional wives and they sure as heck never mentioned that some of them were already married. That's a sin.
So is lying. By leaving out that information, you're lying by ommission.
The church lied to 7 generations of my family by not divulging that information. If I had that information I NEVER would have set foot in a Mormon church. And you're still lying by ommission.

Skylar 12:53 PM
The church is making a large effort to be open and transparent about its history. There has been a lot of research that has recently come out.

Nick 12:53 PM
Really? They're making an effort to be transparent? Where do they explain how a man could marry another man's wife?

Skylar 12:53 PM
Have you been to the josephsmithpapers.org site? That is a good place to start

Nick 12:53 PM
Seems to me like that is expressly forbidden by the law of God and the Law of the Priesthood, which is still a law, right?

Skylar 12:54 PM
And you could read the Book of Mormon, too, that talks about it

Nick 12:55 PM
Yes I've been there. Not a word about the Law of the Priesthood (D&C 132;61) which condemns that practice, polyandry, as a sin, adultery in 5 different ways. And you're telling me it's justified? how? Where? According to what law?
The Book of Mormon condemns polygamy as an abomination before God. I was Mormon for 40 yrs.
5th Generation. Pretty sure God never told anybody they could violate the 10 Commandments and the Law of the Priesthood by marrying other men's wives.
Not that I ever saw anyways.

Francesca 12:56 PM
We can see that you are upset. We are really sorry that you feel that you have been lied to. Maybe it would be helpful for you to take some time to learn more. We would really encourage you to remember why you were baptized and hold to the simple principles of the gospel.

Nick 12:58 PM
Are you capable of being honest in answering a Simple yes or no question, were Joseph Smith and Brigham Young wrong to marry their follower's wives?
I was a missionary once. I know I would have been honest in answering that question, given what I know about the gospel and the law of God.

Francesca 12:59 PM
If you were a missionary, then you must know that like most things in this life, there isn't a simple yes or no. Especially when things are taken out of context.

Nick 1:00 PM
THe law of God is quite clear on this issue. It shouldn't depend upon context. He didn't give any loopholes. YOu're being evasive, and not forthcoming, which isn't the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. It's lying by ommision.

Francesca 1:00 PM
Is it lying to say that the 1800s were different than 2017?

Nick 1:01 PM
Its lying to say, "It depends" when I ask you if it was wrong to marry another man's wife.
It's NEVER been legal to marry another man's wife, not in the entire history of Western Civilization.
Not even the Muslims allow men to marry other men's wives and they still practice Polygamy, the last vestage of barabary.

Francesca 1:02 PM
Well, most of the times people weren't legally married, they were sealed to him
which is different.

Nick 1:03 PM
Again, you're not being honest. Yes they were "married" according to geneological records. Yet there is no law by which a man could 'marry' another man's wife. Never was.

Skylar 1:03 PM
I think it's important to understand a couple of things. One is the reason for the sealing. It's so that we--all of us--can be united and live with God in heaven. So it's important that the blessings of the temple are available to everyone.

Nick 1:04 PM
This is why I am no longer Mormon. There is no way to honestly defend the adulterous actions of Joseph Smith and Brigham Young, as you've proven once again.

Skylar 1:04 PM
And I'm sorry to hear that you are willing to let this concern get in the way of you experiencing all of the blessings that God has to offer you

Nick 1:05 PM
It's not just this concern. What about not allowing blacks into the temple until 1978. That's racist, given the fact you don't need the priesthood to enter a temple, given the fact that women go every day w/o phood.
How is that in keeping with Christ's main commandment to love our fellow men as ourselves? Is it loving to exclude them from the temple?

Francesca 1:06 PM
Again, you seem to be really upset. Have you prayed about these things before?

Nick 1:07 PM
YEs. The God I know and love commanded us to love our fellow men as ourselves and to not covet our neighbors wife and commit adultery with her.

Francesca 1:07 PM
Have you read the gospeltopics page on this?

Nick 1:07 PM
I can't be a Mormon and support men who violated Christ's main commandments.
I sure can't sing the praises of a guy who (pretend) 'married" his follower's wives.

Skylar 1:08 PM
That is your decision to make.

Nick 1:08 PM
How do you sing the praises of an adulterer in good conscience?

Skylar 1:09 PM
However, especially considering you served a mission, it seems to me that you have forgotten all the times that God's Holy Spirit spoke to you the truthfulness of Jesus Christ as our Savior, the Book of Mormon as another witness of Jesus Christ, etc. I know that Christ lives, I know that His gospel is on the earth today, and that Joseph Smith truly was His prophet.

Francesca 1:18 PM
Are you still there?

Nick 1:18 PM
Yes.
I didn't forget, I just started listening to reason.
And used my logic to determine that it wasn't God talking to me, it was Group Think, herd mentality and tribalism talking to me about how great Mormonism was, not God.
The God I know and love didn't condone adultery or lying by ommission, which the Mormon church did to convince me and my family to sacrifice our lives for a fraud.
And they're still lying by ommiission. By ommitting the fact that God NEVER commanded anybody to marry another man's wife, because that God would be a hypocrite.
Since that is clearly a violation of the 10 Commandments and every other law every written governing marriage, including the very law Joseph claimed to have recieved straight from God himself, the law of thePriesthood D&C 132:61, do you know that one?
Because you're ignoring it.

Francesca 1:28 PM
Sorry! We were trying to give you a chance to say everything you needed to say

Nick 1:30 PM
You still have not answered my simple question, "Was it wrong of JS and BY to marry their follower's wives?"

Francesca 1:30 PM
Yes, but they didn't do that

Nick 1:30 PM
You're lying.
Even your own church now admits they did.
After 185yrs of lying about it.
But you're still lying.
why?
You started out telling me you'd be honest and youre lying through your teeth.Why?

Skylar 1:32 PM
We were trying to explain that Joseph and Brigham were married to many women for eternity, but not for time. It's different. But we don't want to take up anymore of your time, so hope you have a great rest of your day! Don't forget to go to mormon.org and watch the #lighttheworld video!!
The chat session has ended.

Mormons these days are different from me. They're lying sacks of shit who defend what is clearly adultery and sexual abuse. I NEVER would have defended this shit.

They are blind and cowards!they love defending Joseph Smith! Church of Joseph Smith of latter day liars!

"Read the Book of Mormon...blah blah blah...remember why you were baptized...blah blah blah..."

That's not going to help solve the issues that people have with the church and it's history, and why TSCC keeps it whitewash it.

As far as remembering why one gets baptized...well a good amount of people got baptized at the young age of eight. Most of the time for that reason it is because they HAD to.

Yep, more victim blaming. "We're sorry that YOU are not happy. We're sorry that YOU felt this way. Why not pray..."

They were married...no, they were sealed to other mens' wives, not legally married...no, they *were* married "for eternity, but not for time"...


Sometimes I don't like reading your "gotcha" chat posts, but this time the misshies stepped in their own doo-doo but *still* couldn't smell it.

They are there to convert people to this lie and give more money!

the following video backs up everything that you said on the matter.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=36B-c58_WPo

It is just my opinion, but I think that everyone involved with MORmONISM should see this presentation.

OP, I support your decision to point out the lying going on, online.

But, (big but) it occurs to me that everything they type would be monitored/recorded, and going off script to answer honestly could bring waves of externally inflicted pain and consequences. All I'm suggesting is that it's not likely to *ever* elicit honesty.

Are painful consequences an excuse? I would call it coercive tactics to force the online missies to lie. We can't know the pressures or even possible abuse they might face, if they go true-blue-honest.

I think it's important to remember that these are church lies, not necessarily the lies or *real* opinions of the typists on the other end of the line.

I assume they are being monitored ny the Morgue handlers, who I am aiming for. I have asked this same question at least 20 times and every time instead of giving me a simple yes or no answer, they lie to me. I'd think after being called liars 20 times, theyd figure out how to answer that question w/o lying through their GD teeth. But instead they just keep repeating the same GD lies to justify sexual predators whose praises they continue singing, knowing they sexualy preyed on their followers kids and wives. To me, that makes them complicit in the sexual abuse that is still ongoing and justified in the same way, well, you have to look at the context, there are loopholes. This is why Mormons voted for a sex predator for Prez more than any other group. Thay can justify ANYthing.

If you use their same logic that they use to deflect the criticisms of polygamy "That was in the past, but it doesn't matter anymore." Then you should be able to turn it around on them when you tell them there is no need for a living prophet.

I say keep giving them hell. They are liars.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/03/2017 11:55AM by messygoop.

Yes! Keep giving them hell! I wouldn't mind if it would get to the point where they would reference it in conference.
Wishful thinking.

I have a couple of question for them myself. I'll let you know who it goes, Koriwhore!

This exchange sounds like successful gaslighting to me. It wasn't common back then to marry other men's wives or for 38 yr old men to marry 14 yr olds, especially when the 38 yr old was already married. Obviously, polygamy and polyandry were about ole joe sanctioning his fooling around. Mormons will never admit that.

Exiled Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> This exchange sounds like successful gaslighting
> to me. It wasn't common back then to marry other
> men's wives or for 38 yr old men to marry 14 yr
> olds, especially when the 38 yr old was already
> married. Obviously, polygamy and polyandry were
> about ole joe sanctioning his fooling around.
> Mormons will never admit that.

So instead of admitting the obvious, yes its wrong to abuse your obscene amount of power over your followers to cuckold them and destroy their families by sexually exploiting (raping) their wives and teenage kids, they lie through their GD teeth to defend the pervert founders of their abusive doomsday sex CULT.

Admitting the truth about this would just open the door to admitting that none of it was real in the first place. They (meaning the ones in charge, not the little hostages they've got manning the chatbox) will NEVER admit that their organization was a fraud founded by pervert for the sole purpose of indulging himself. There is no pulling out of that dive, no possible spin you can put on "Joseph lied, stole and raped" that enables the white and blightsome to walk on gracefully. No one involved is going to light a pile of money that size on fire, no matter how right of a thing it would be to do.

It is easy for me to think of ways to soft pedal the lies to keep the game going and I'm neither Mormon anymore nor a sociopath...so how much easier is it for the truly invested, those who want so badly for the shelf to hold,those who need to fit in, those who make a stack of cash, those who have no guilt or shame, to find ways to explain it all away as some PRESHUS MISTRY OF THA LAWD and defend it against the demons of Fact and Truth who want to spoil all the bosom burnin',tithe wagon fillin', woman sharin', yarn tellin' fun.

It will never be willingly admitted on their part. That doesn't mean you should stop checking to see if they will. You might put thoughts into even the hardest heads. If they're going to proselytize lies, someone should do so for the truth.

I hate to be the brat who spoils the whole Santa thing for all the little kids, but, when those little kids are being exploited, I won't hesitate to disabuse them of their erroneous beliefs. "He's not guilty Because he was a Prophet" is no defense.
Nobody is above the law.

"it seems to me that you have forgotten all the times that God's Holy Spirit spoke to you the truthfulness of Jesus Christ as our Savior, the Book of Mormon as another witness of Jesus Christ, etc"

This statement is so infuriating. Do not look behind the curtain!

Atari Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "it seems to me that you have forgotten all the
> times that God's Holy Spirit spoke to you the
> truthfulness of Jesus Christ as our Savior, the
> Book of Mormon as another witness of Jesus Christ,
> etc"
>
> This statement is so infuriating. Do not look
> behind the curtain!

When I ask Mormons about the abusive founder of their faith I've had them tell me they're concerned about how angry I am.
I tell them I'm more concerned that I've got a couple of CULT brainwashers wandering around my neighborhood trying to sign people up to fork over 10% of their income so they too can sing the praises of a pedophile and a man who stole his followers wives and children from them.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iIdhV3839RA&t=27s

Yes, and they teach children that pedophiles are good people, and that they must respect and obey them. This is dangerous. I was taught to accept abuse and sexual innuendos from my brother and other Mormons, because they held the priesthood, and had authority over me. I was actually groomed to marry a wife-abuser. He had a right to do anything he wanted to his "possession", his eternal wife who was not allowed to say no to him, much less divorce him. Those 14 months of slavery and torture almost killed me. But that's OK. I'm nothing but a female, and the beatings were my fault. My ex is a "Mormon in good standing," and married and abused two other temple wives. I was never allowed a temple divorce, never allowed to re-marry in the temple. The abuser's grandfather was a prominent GA.

Lies are more harmful than people realize. A criminal is not "a good person." Child abuse and spousal abuse is not "OK." Leaving out important information (like a guy having a record of assault and battery, and seriously injuring his own sister) is the same as lying outright. Mormons, as I know them, have no scruples. I do not trust them in my life or in my business. They can't be loyal and honest, because their number one loyalty is to their lying cult. They will deny everything.

Yes, missionaries are after our children and our money. You have my blessing in giving them as much grief as you possibly can (without breaking the law), Koriwhore.

Its for the victims, who have been silenced by fear, that I speak up and confront these representatives of the abusive money grubbing doomsday sex CULT. And publicize their lies.
I will stop while the worlds largest army of cult recruiters stops lying by ommitting the fact that their founder raped his followers wives and teenagers.

You might put a small fracture in the shelf of a Mormon by confronting them on the fraudulent history of the church but good luck. It would be like going into a class full police officers and telling them they are nothing put cheap tools used by the rich and powerful to keep the masses in line.

With that being said koriwhore keep up the pressure, you never know maybe it might start them thinking and save future generations from the mental imprisonment that is Mormonism.

She sounds more honest and/or knowledgeable than most of those who man the site, although the bar has been set pretty low in that regard.

If she's a full-time mishie and does much of that, she's sitting on a cushy mission job, not that I would want it. At least she's presumably safe. We had two sister missionaries fall into harm in South America. They barely escaped with their lives; their "purity" didn't quite make it. It still makes me almost physically ill to think about it. If any of my nieces ever serve missions, I hope they're either in Temple Square or in some room in front of a computer, using little or no integrity while debating those who know more than they do about some of the seedier aspects of the cult's history.

The church isn't going to come out ahead in their current mission model. They won't get one-tenth the numbers they want (and they'll blame the failure on the missionaries' sins) much less the prototype of the convert they need to do the church any good.

If the church is so damned determined to get those barely legal adult males into places where they can't get themselves into trouble or, more importantly, start to question all they've been taught, why doesn't the church turn itself into their own denominational version of the Peace Corps or some form of service mission, with no hidden agenda and no religious proselytizing (or "proselyting," as LDS Inc. prefers to term the practice) whatsoever? It would create far more positive publicity, and there's an outside chance someone they're serving might actually benefit from their efforts.

I just don't get why the church's higher ups cannot figure this one out. It's an absolute no-brainer. The service experience couldn't be too physically intense. The kids would refuse to go or would bolt once there if they were treated as though they were in North Korean re-education camps or SeaOrg, but if the service missionaries were fed well, treated kindly, and not overworked, the attrition rate would be lower than it presently is, and the kids would all come home with something worth posting on a resume anywhere outside the Morridor.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/08/2017 11:15AM by scmd.