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Posted by: SEcular Priest ( )
Date: December 04, 2017 01:25PM

starting in January 2017.

Both my posts are Church wide, starting January 2017.

This is from yesterday.

Everyone is to participate in the lesson. No exceptions

There is to be no formal leader but rather a facilitator

The lessons, are you ready, drum roll.......... conference talks from the the last general conference. As mentioned, no more history, no more use of scriptures but rather reviewing the words of modern prophets, and seers and we were told also using the talks given to the women in their sessions at General Conference.

There will be a theme but it was not clear if the ward decides the theme or the stake. For the next three months the lessons will reflect what the current leaders have said about the topic. No scriptures needed as we will be using up to date scriptures, the Ensign.

I got the impression but I could be wrong, but it may also be the same theme for Sacrament meeting talks.

Everyone will be expected to participate by reading the required talks ahead of time and come prepared to share what they learned from their study of the materials.

There will be no formal lesson manual. Everyone is to share their thoughts and ideas about what the speakers are saying about the topic.

We were told that this is how Jesus taught.(????)

Sounds as exciting as a root canal with no pain killers.

I see this as an attempt to get the members to think that we have prophets and seers who are to guide us with modern day revelations.

I don't know how many watched on line the Christmas program from SLC last night. I had it on as I was doing some work in the office. I wanted to feel the Spirit of Christmas.

The music sucked. I mean sucked big time. The speakers were worse. After the first sister talked I was going to turn it off but endured so I could report. The theme was all about giving service, giving service in the Spirit of Christmas, helping others, giving more of your time. Talk about a guilt ridden event. Folks I have been a member of the Church all my life and the feeling I have been getting from the Church lately is I have not done enough. I know I have but that was the feeling I left with. No uplifting stuff last night about Christmas that you get from other Churches about Christmas.

It was like the soul has left the Conference Center last night before the meeting started.

So the first sister talked about Christ, and how we owe Him and Heavenly Father everything. Guilt trip big time. I felt like poo by the time she finished.

The second guy a seventy was worst. He threw is first wife, so to speak under the bus. He married and she died after a couple years of marriage.He said that it states that man should not be alone. listen to how he tied this to Christmas. He got a second wife for a Christmas present for his small daughter.

Then the German guy spoke about how we need to go out among the poor and the needy and help them. How we need to associate with the people like Jesus did but he gave no example of how he goes among the poor and helps them. There is something about "do as I say but not as I do" that came across in his remarks.

So if this is an indication of the stuff we will be reviewing and discussing in our meetings, the good members who are left and think will be disappointed in our newly improved lessons for weeks two and three.

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Posted by: Justin ( )
Date: December 04, 2017 03:29PM

Everyone is going to be clamoring for a Primary teaching position.

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Posted by: elderolddog ( )
Date: December 04, 2017 04:06PM

So how much are they saving by not printing and distributing lesson books and materials?

As a professional cynic, I’m impressed!

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Posted by: Pooped ( )
Date: December 04, 2017 04:34PM

"Folks I have been a member of the Church all my life and the feeling I have been getting from the Church lately is I have not done enough. I know I have but that was the feeling I left with. No uplifting stuff last night about Christmas that you get from other Churches about Christmas."

This is the exact same excuse given by one of my TBM friends for why she no longer attends the Mormon church. This happened to her following 9/11. The Mormon church gave he no solace after that horrific event. She never resigned and I don't know of any doctrinal nor historic topics that bother her about MOrmonism. She just cannot abide the depressing feelings she gets from attending the Mormon church. She is now a Methodist and is happy as a clam.

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Posted by: summer ( )
Date: December 04, 2017 05:26PM

I think that people begin to turn off if all they are given is a constant diet of guilt and recrimination. People want encouragement. They want praise and appreciation for the good that they have already done. This is what spurs people to do more and to give their best. Psychology 101.

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Posted by: numbersRus ( )
Date: December 04, 2017 04:53PM

A lawyer will review all conference talks and then they can claim anything else was just personal opinion shared in the ward house, not official positions, etc.

Meanwhile they can gaslight anything printed in prior lesson books and, as elderdog mentioned, save lots of money on writers, editors and printing costs of lesson books, etc.

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Posted by: dp ( )
Date: December 04, 2017 10:06PM

SEcular Priest Wrote:
> The music sucked. I mean sucked big time...
> It was like the soul has left the Conference
> Center last night before the meeting started.

Some would contend there has never been an ounce of *soul* in that place, or the old one, ever.

See also:

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Posted by: caffiend ( )
Date: December 04, 2017 10:43PM

This happens with some groups, cults especially. The drift away from their purported original teachings (revelations, doctrine) for a number of possible reasons. In this case, the original teachings (everything in the Quad except the KJV) have turned out to be bogus or ecclesiastically contrived.

So they turn to the current leadership for "inspiration." Instead of, "As the Prophet JS tells us..." or, "We learn from Prophet BY..." (and forget about Pearl of Great Price), you get "Apostle Contemporary BigShot admonishes us..." and other such Lord High MuckyMucks' pseudo-wisdom.

It happens elsewhere. Too many people substitute Christian books for the Bible. A church might print "Words of Help from Pastor JimmieBob," and people study that instead of the Bible. In the 1950s, hundreds of millions of Chinese were not carrying the words of Marx, Engels, and Lenin, but the "Little Red Book" of Chairman Mao.

No, SecularPriest, this is NOT how Jesus taught.

Your observation, "...the lessons will reflect what the current leaders have said about the topic. No scriptures needed as we will be using up to date scriptures, the Ensign," if an accurate representation, are striking. It suggests a "new canon" of truth, which means they are replacing, or at least displacing, previous "holy writ." That suggests 1) previous "truth" is now invalid, and 2) this IS an attempt to get the members to think that (they) have prophets and seers who are to guide (the members) with modern day revelations" in a softer but subtly powerful way: "This is what you are to believe, even if nobody claims to have spoken to Jesus or heard a 'thus saith the Lord.'"


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Posted by: unbelievable2 ( )
Date: December 04, 2017 10:44PM

I am a little confused about the lesson manual issue raised above. For several years now RS and Priesthood have used GC talks as lesson materials two Sundays of every month.

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Posted by: SEcualr Priest ( )
Date: December 05, 2017 08:11PM

Maybe you were in the pilot program. Tell us how it worked. Thanks.

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Posted by: MCR ( )
Date: December 05, 2017 07:06PM

I don't think there's any intention of making people feel like crap. It's simply that conducting a deep discussion and studying and understanding scripture is very hard. It's hard mostly because it requires people to change themselves. Being personally self-satisfied and talking about "goodness" isn't good. Trying to replace understanding with sentimentality (We owe Jesus eveeryything! He sacrificed for our redemption! Boo hoo!), doesn't create any discussion. There's no actual content; it's nothing but repeating slogans with a holier than thou attitude--I can shed more crocodile tears over Jesus than you can! People exposed to that understandably turn away from it; they don't seek to engage it. It's too off-putting.

No wonder everyone's more depressed after it's over. There's no authenticity. How are a bunch of ancient, arrogant businessmen and social climbers supposed to generate joy in the ranks?

Also, Ensign articles are so shallow, how can they be expected to generate any conversation other than poking holes in them?

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Posted by: tig ( )
Date: December 05, 2017 09:53PM

Watching it once was painful enough. Now you get to hear it in sacrament as some brainless ward member reread sit to you, the you can discuss it as well in Sunday school and ph/rs. No thanks.

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Posted by: slskipper ( )
Date: December 05, 2017 10:50PM


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Posted by: imaworkinonit ( )
Date: December 06, 2017 12:26AM

Ughh. So glad I'm out. Apparently they don't know that it takes knowledge and preparation to teach. Oh . . . and an interesting and worthwhile topic that will offer something NEW to the class. Nobody wants to go and hear the same old thing again.

Sitting around with a fairly large group of people to 'discuss' something that everybody has heard before for their whole lives, will be a colossal waste of time, and nobody will want to be there.

Add the assumption that everything in the conference talk is to be taken as revelation from God, and you can't even have an honest discussion or debate about it!

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Posted by: steve benson ( )
Date: December 06, 2017 12:27AM

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Posted by: readwrite ( )
Date: December 06, 2017 12:51AM

It makes one weak. Me neither!

Go by (buy) the book.
Listen to us.
Sit up straight!

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Posted by: catnip ( )
Date: December 06, 2017 01:02AM

spiritual nourishment, along the line of "Christ is Risen!"

He still talks about what a frightful, un-Christian mess the Mo-church provided. He said there was virtually nothing in the program about Jesus or the resurrection.

He has attended church a few times since, but he has not found what he is looking for. I wish I had the physical mobility to take him back to the Presbyterian church I used to attend. He seemed to like it there, and he was even invited to join a men's lunch-bunch. When he protested that he was not a member, he was astonished that they said, "Yeah, we know, but you're a nice guy. That's what counts!" He enjoyed several monthly lunches with them, until the group broke up for some reason or other.

He is a believer, without a church.

I think it is easier to be a non-believer, but he can't do that.

The Mo-church has let him - and many other good people - down, horribly.

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