I wouldn’t mind running the cult. The church is a corporation and the prophet is the only stock holder. You would become a mult-billionaire on paper. See most members don’t realize they are legally members of nothing. Only the prophet is a member. The rest of the church are just volunteers with a few being actual employees. Your tithing money is a donation. It buys you nothing.
You'll disagree with me, of course, HieTwoCholob :( But Elder Monson has just had a very rude awakening.
"Say to them, As I live, declares the Lord GOD, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but that the wicked turn from his way and live; turn back, turn back from your evil ways, for why will you die, O house of Israel?" (Ezk. 33.11 ESV)
"Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full." (Mat. 6.6b)
Unlike you, Caffiend, I disagree that Monson will find himself in the bowels of hell now that he's crossed over.
God created a diverse world for a reason. A loving god would not cast off his creation because they weren't born or converted to Christianity.
He looks upon the heart it is said in scripture, not the outward appearances.
Religion is good only insofar as it helps someone to be a better person. Not to be condemning. If Jesus Christ taught anything it was not to cast judgment on sinners or the unrighteous. He taught us to love everyone, and condemned no one.
Christian zealots have distorted the word and meaning of pure religion as Christ taught. He thought, lived, and died as a Jew. Not a Christian. Jews condemn no one, including those of other religion or secular unless they commit to doing evil to others. There are many paths that lead back to the source of our Creator. Christians are worser zealots than Mormons are f.y.i. When they condemn other religions.
The one thing I carried with me from my Mormon teachings is that basically everyone is saved except for the worst sinners, like Judas Iscariot. I don't believe in the Mormon heaven or afterlife. I do believe that God's grace is available to all his children regardless of what religion they ascribe to. If it were otherwise he would not have created such a diverse population.
Btw, Mormons accept and believe in JC. By definition, that makes Monson a Christian - even as he belongs to a peculiar Christian cult.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/03/2018 09:30PM by Amyjo.
Amyjo Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Unlike you, Caffiend, I disagree that Monson will > find himself in the bowels of hell now that he's > crossed over.
What crossing over to where?
> God created a diverse world for a reason. A loving > god would not cast off his creation because they > weren't born or converted to Christianity.
How do you know a god exists?
> He looks upon the heart it is said in scripture, > not the outward appearances. > > Religion is good only insofar as it helps someone > to be a better person. Not to be condemning. If > Jesus Christ taught anything it was not to cast > judgment on sinners or the unrighteous. He taught > us to love everyone, and condemned no one.
Have you read the New Testament?! Christ, at least as supposedly in said text, is loaded with condemnation of wicked this, Pharisees that, etc. And Paul took it up a notch.
> Christian zealots have distorted the word and > meaning of pure religion as Christ taught. He > thought, lived, and died as a Jew. Not a > Christian. Jews condemn no one, including those of > other religion or secular unless they commit to > doing evil to others. There are many paths that > lead back to the source of our Creator. Christians > are worser zealots than Mormons are f.y.i. When > they condemn other religions.
Syncretism is a joke. Competing truth claims cannot all be equally correct. Either one religion is correct or they are all wrong. (Hint, it is the latter.)
> The one thing I carried with me from my Mormon > teachings is that basically everyone is saved > except for the worst sinners, like Judas Iscariot. > I don't believe in the Mormon heaven or afterlife. > I do believe that God's grace is available to all > his children regardless of what religion they > ascribe to. If it were otherwise he would not have > created such a diverse population.
See above. And make sure you have enough crayons in that safe space of yours.
> Btw, Mormons accept and believe in JC. By > definition, that makes Monson a Christian - even > as he belongs to a peculiar Christian cult.
Monson headed a controlling, manipulative, greedy, mind-bending, life-destroying cult. If there is an afterlife, and I don't believe in one, one would hope he's in a very warm climate now.
Although, I do not believe in Hell. I am not sure about Karma but some past life hypnotists infer they have had clients with 'extreme' incarnations following each other. How many are necessary ---- who knows.
There is a possibility 'Karma' may come to play in Monson's situation.
He likely 'knew' Mormonism was a scam, it separated families and killed gays. All to make the church and those connected wealthy.
Based on Karma an 'extreme' like this sets up for and 'extreme' life in future incarnations.
One can only imagine what the 'opposite extreme' could mean.
If there is a God, then as you indicate with your scriptures he will be furious with a man who led such a destructive religion. I appreciate also that you didn't bring the type of religion (Mormonism versus Christianity) into the discussion.
Monson has a lot of suffering, and not an insignificant amount of blood, on his hands.
Most of the time, Mrs. Lot, I'm on the same page with AmyJo, and I'm looking across the binding at you on the opposite page (from me). And here you and I are mere paragraphs apart!
The New Testament does not support Universalism: "Olley-Olley-In-Come-Free!" As Von Murp points out --the one point I agree with him -- the "Law of Mutual Exclusion" states that somebody is right and somebody is wrong, or perhaps everybody is wrong (the atheist position), but everybody cannot be simultaneously right. More than sincerity is requisite: a person can be very sincerely wrong.
You summarize the logical options as: someone is right and someone is wrong, or everyone is wrong, but everyone can't be right at the same time.
There is another option: everyone can be both right and wrong at the same time. It is an important principle in the Judeao-Christian religions that God is in important ways unknowable and hence, by extension, that none of us understand him completely. In fact, it would be sacrilege to assert that anyone fully comprehends God's nature and particularly his mercy.
I interpreted your citations as implying that Monson would have problems at judgment because of his actions or inactions rather than his personal beliefs. I hope that is correct. I hope that on this issue, at least we can be on the same page.
In either case, though, it is possible to disagree frequently and profoundly with someone and still respect that person and wish the best for him.
Lot's Wife Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > I interpreted your citations as implying that > Monson would have problems at judgment because of > his actions or inactions rather than his personal > beliefs. I hope that is correct. I hope that on > this issue, at least we can be on the same page.
Interesting. That's not how I "interpreted" that scripture, since it doesn't say anything at all about judgment (and the idea of an after-life judgment really isn't Jewish/OT belief anyway).
It only spoke of death. And strongly implied that Yahweh didn't take pleasure in killing evil people, he wanted them to turn away from their evil so he wouldn't have to kill them.
But if they didn't, he'd kill them. That was the punishment --death. And end of life. As in "THE end."
Nothing there about after-life judgment, just death. Which isn't at all surprising, as that fits OT Jewish belief perfectly :)
As to whether or not I agree with it...from observation and history, I've gleaned that if a 'god' exists, it doesn't have anything to do with whether people live or die. Good people die, bad people live, and vice-versa. There's no observable correlation between goodness/evilness and living or dying. So I don't feel at all frightened to ignore bible Yahweh's threats :)
I may have misread Caffiend's assertions. Seems like I did.
On the question of an afterlife in Jewish thought, I'd quibble with you a bit. When the Judaean elite returned from Babylon, they brought a lot of Zoroastrian ideas--monotheism, God lives in fire, the Book of Job (lifted almost word for word from the Avesta), the apocalypse and judgment, a paradise/afterlife--that entered the OT in the prophetic age. There's a great book on this, Norman Cohn's Chaos, Cosmos, and the World to Come.
But I'm busy today. Hopefully we can discuss this at leisure sometime!
I'm aware of what you mentioned (though probably not as versed in it as you are). At any rate, the verses my buddy caffiend quoted above make no mention of afterlife or judgment, only of death (and the NT verse implies their death from being evil is their reward, IMHO). There are, of course, some other OT passages that could/do imply belief in an afterlife...those we'll get to later!