I did sympathize for a little while for them. But i am sitting next to some in chipotle right now and i really feel the hate brewing inside me. Can't deny it, i hate their tactics and all they do. Is it wrong to hate? I don't think so, it is a real emotion and should not be suppressed or denied.

You have much anger inside you.

All that hatred is not healthy.

It is not normal.

Making statements he wants to stab a non Mormon where he lives is harboring way too much anger and hatred. That isn't normal or healthy.

People have a lot of time on their hands if they remember what i say, i don't even remember it, these are thoughts that fly by and forgotten and that is the point of venting. People that judge me have had way worse thoughts than i have they are just too afraid to admit it, but you can all pretend to be copies of jesus it makes no difference to me. I hear people say what i say in my life and they aren't typing it. I didn't grow up in some castle in the sky where everyone is proper. Why does everyone pretend that they are saints when they aren't i don't get it but i never will. Everyone has an ugly side on the inside just like me. It is unhealthy to suppress it but if people want to pretend to be perfect that is their choice. Have you ever cursed someone out on the road? Yes you have people, we all have, we are not saints, no one is. I just got out of a movie and it was kind of boring, i can say it was boring and think it was boring but i took no action of vengeance on hollywood for tricking me and that is the difference. And they have tricked me many times to get me to go to the theatre and waste my time and my money thinking i would see something good.

Try four days ago.

I'll try hard to remember your comments until Monday, but I can't promise.

I vaguely remember but it feels like years ago and i am not even joking. I change pretty fast, i am not the same person i was a week ago, but maybe that's what constant therapy does i have no idea. I don't understand trauma counseling to be honest i just do the EMDR thing like they say.

Probably not but what do you do about it? Thats the real question nobody has the answer to. There is no anti-anger pill specifically to get rid of anger. Unless i am missing something.

oh i do! they lie to everyone and are like droids when you ask hard anything! just pray and blah blah

Put the chips and salsa down. Do not throw it. :)

He should take the chip off his shoulder too.

It will probably always be there unfortunately.

The 18 year old kid that may or may not understand what he's doing. Odds are at least a few are looking for a way out as well.

Agreed. A lot of these kids are there out of ignorance, or peer/family pressure. Many of these kids, especially the Elders, would much rather be doing something else and are just trying to make the best of a bad situation. Of course there are zealots, but my guess is most of them are just playing along so Mom and Dad will pay for college or something like that.

Seeing the missionaries as one dimensional could be selling yourself short. It' nice to wonder what they are really thinking, who they were before they got stuck in this Mormon busy work. They aren't all alike and what is underneath could surprise you. Some are jerks and some are lost, and some really don't want to be there. Sometimes we're not as much on different sides as it seems.

Empathy is a muscle that benefits from excercise. Anyway that's my presumptuous take on the situation.

They are selling handshakes and bullsh#t, i see the rotten core of their corporation behind their clean cut front. And i am tired of their relentless attack. Even the bible says never swear secret oaths but what do they do they swear secret oaths and try to deceive others until their victims are too far in and their lives are ruined and they will never be the same again if they ever get out. Which it is probably impossible to ever be normal again.

I think it's best to avoid fanatical salespeople. I drove my car to the dealership for repairs and a fast talking salesman rushed out and tried to sell me a new car. I snorted slightly as I told him no and kept walking. Car salesmen and missionaries do get extremely pushy. If six year olds can treat me respectfully, then teenagers and grown men can learn a lesson from them. Be polite and I'll return the favor.

In the meantime, I avoid being cornered by pushy fanatical salespeople, religious or otherwise.

Every time i get an oil change a salesmen trys to sell me a new vehicle so i know what you are talking about. And i haven't even had my truck a year yet.

In my not so humble opinion hate is an exercise in futility. I am not saying you are stupid only stating my opinion of hate. there have been times in my life when I thought that hate was the only route then I figured out that love was a better use of my energy. As for the missionaries, if you tell them "I love you as a human being but I really dislike it when you try to forcibly interfere with my rights as a human being. So I will discuss with you anything except religion but if religion is all you are mentally able of discussing at this time then I will be unable to have any meaningful discussion with you.
Then either have a discussion on a mutually acceptable subject or turn and quietly walk away ignoring them. These are my 82 year old words of advice. Been There Done That

But i don't love them desertman so it would be a lie. I am smart i just have unresolved pain issues that interfere with life. I would be a totally different person if i could fix the last of my injuries. Most people are not suffering like i have and still am so of course they are going to judge me, they don't understand it.

Gnats, flies, drivers who follow too closely, loud music at night, catsup bottles that are slow, late flights, cheap leaky pens, people who burp or spit, the list goes on. It's fine to express these hate-filled opinions, better than holding them in to turn into something worse.

I think mormons and exmormons are overly sensitive about their missionaries. They need to examine their knee-jerk reactions to anyone bringing up the subject. I have never-mormon friends who openly express strong feelings every time these guys are in the neighborhood knocking on doors.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/11/2018 09:35PM by Cheryl.

Thanks cheryl, i hear people express hate all the time as well especially on the road. Apparently there is this great place that everyone is in a hurry to that doesn't exist. Maybe it's general conference or some guy's funeral.

Howdy Badass, I’m wondering if you’re truly feeling hate or just anger because the missionaries symbolize the church? Only you know that answer, Bro.

If it’s hate, there’s a remedy—recognize that hate is an unhealthy emotion that YOU have control of. Hate will eat your guts out and make you sick. Ask yourself why you hate. Then take that answer and ask yourself why. Do this over and over until you realize that hate is senseless:

1. I hate Mormons (why)
2. I was lied to and humiliated by them (why)
3. Because they’re fucked up and they believe that shit (why)
4. Because that’s what they were taught (why)
5. Because they’re in a cult (why)
6. Because their parents were members (why)
7. They were conned (why)

....

Because they were people who needed something unique in their lives because of their own personal needs, or deep hurt, or longing, or insecurities.

....


You have many talents, Badass. You’re funny, smart, honorable, and loyal. Hate is not one of your personal values. Let go of it.

BTW, I expect a new Badass video—this one rated PG-13.

I’m going to be thinking of you on the 22nd. I hope all goes well with your neck. I’m sending you a big bro-hug and hearty Fuck the Morg!

It might be anger, because i haven't felt the spectrum of the emotions for so long i have no idea how to identify them. I am very mad that i was lied to because now i feel more out of the bubble and feel like an actual human being with some self-esteem. So i take it more personal now to be around them. It is a humiliation, it is the ultimate humiliation and betrayel. Because i believe in honor and loyalty and they showed me none of that they just sucked me dry. But badass videos are coming your way hahaha. That last one was just a funny joke for old dog. I can be a funny dude sometimes so maybe i will make a funny video next and mention the boner in it or john smith, i knew you were related to old joe smith haha. Better videos coming your way i need a camera and a tripod. Recording from my phone doesn't work very well.

How would you feel if you sensed that someone behind you at a restaurant were seething at you, more and more by the minute.

What if you became angrier and had a weapon? You've implied that you do.

Adam, are you seriously beyond our help?

I wasn't seething haha jesus. I am beyond your help for sure probably unless random checks come in the mail to help me pay bills so i don't have to worry about bill collectors calling me every two seconds until my neck surgery, there was never a quick fix for me but i have tried to resolve my health issues even the crazy mormon ideas put in my head. The only effective things that work are surgery, acupuncture, meds, and counseling. But its not like i can get 10 surgeries at once to get out of pain that is impossible. I am going at the speed the medical system will allow. When the weather is cold i just have to tolerate everything. I am in nasty pain but there isn't much i can do but try to contain it until my next surgery. I just vent on here in the meantime as a distraction. I know people have their own lives so i have to continue to figure this sh#t out on my own. My counselor said there isn't much that can be done from the very beginning of therapy, i have thought many times that it could be over already for me and not even know it. I don't even know if this is my real personality.

I feel sorry for missionaries, I hate the church that tricked them to serve it. The missionaries are just trying to get their family and friends off their back, better their chances of a Mormon girl talking to them, etc.

How to never be angry again:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JR3eF8YlwNY

He said it is ok to be angry though. It should have been called how to react after you get angry. All i did in my situation was eat my burrito then walked out the door while they kept talking to people they were trying to convert. You see i used to help the missionaries quite a bit so i know their tricks and they used to use me because i had my convictions about god at the time very strongly so i kind of feel very betrayed by the whole charade.

Hatred is so negative. Instead, I accept my self, and my own values. For example, one of my own "missions" in life, as a mother, is to protect my children. I also value integrity, so I avoid liars. I think lies are harmful. I believe in obeying the laws of the land, and that includes respecting other's human rights, their right of privacy, their right to keep their marriage and family together, their right to raise their children as they see fit. All of this is carried out in the parameters of basic human rights laws--that people should not harm each other.

I think children need to know the Truth. Otherwise, how can they deal with life? I don't want them to be raised to trust the wrong people. I don't want them to believe lies, just because someone conned and manipulated them. I married a con-man, who was just after my money, and he beat me. That belief in a returned missionary-as-representative-of-God, almost cost me my life. Children should not "respect" people, just because they are aggressive and demand respect. They should not trust someone because they are smiling and offering candy or "help" or salvation, etc. This is how pedophiles work.

That said, in order to protect my children and grandchildren, and to protect myself (and my money) I will keep Mormon missionaries out of my life.

I know their agenda. It makes NO difference who is hawking the lies and scamming for money--a teen-ager, a "nice" person, someone who has been abused, someone under pressure from the cult, a male or female, an old couple, someone people love or hate. It makes NO difference how well the missionary understands his message, if at all, or if he knows he's selling a scam. It makes NO difference to me.

All I know, is that the lying, harassment, and trespassing must STOP!

I would never hurt anyone, but I would never give missionaries a meal or or money or encouragement and send them on their merry way, ready to hit YOUR house next, or hit on your children, next.

I appreciate anyone who tries to discourage the missionaries. My loved ones and I thank you!

Saying missionaries are young, cute, ignorant, and have good intentions doesn't mean we should invite them in to entice our children to believe their lies.

Supporting their lies isn't justified because they're only trying to get a cute girlfriend and a car from their parents.Turning them away tells them that it's wrong to confront innocent people in their homes and that selling lies doesn't work. Perhaps they might eventually learn. These cute well meaning fresh faced liars might realize they need to go home and go to school or get jobs instead of harassing and trespassing their way through two wasted sad years of their youth.

Do I hate them? No. I wouldn't accept harassment, lying and trespassing from anyone or any organization because I like myself more than I like total strangers who treat me badly.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/12/2018 05:37PM by Cheryl.

You would hate under the right circumstance. If i was still five years old i would say hate is bad and avoid the liars but that is definitely not the real world. The church is a professional tracker with 18 year olds to help out. I don't think i ever felt i had privacy in my life, they could show up on my door today or they could approach me on the street. You are never actually free of them you just have to deal with them and send them on their way over and over. They know where you live at all times eventually even if you secretly move. It never ends.

Well I have no children as a RM I like to have them in my house playing xbox and browsing the web instead of selling scams. I like them because I was one of them. I hate he cult but I like some of them.

This board is full of former missionaries. Assume you hate many here?

As they are, we once were. As we are, they may become.

Hate and anger are promoted by many. I had therapists that made good money off me.

Since you have determined that hate is normal, I assume you will spend the rest of your life like that.

That would bum me out, but glad you like it.

BTW, many assume after leaving the church that one must spend years purging anger before reaching the point of recovery.

Wrong.

I know several people who left the church and never looked back. They laugh about it. Is there something wrong with them? Do we need to create anger where there was none?

Sure different people have different situations and experiences, but a lot of it is personality. Some people have suffered extreme abuse and rise above it. Others in the same situation suffer forever.

You're assuming that every mormon experience is the same. That isn't so.

I know a woman who moved on with her life and the mormon experience didn't phase her. The reason was that she was only mormon for a few short years and spent that time teaching a small class of nursery aged children. She never read mormon scripture, never went to the temple, never knew TBMs in her ward, paid very little tithing and when she found a Catholic to marry, she left mormonism for good.

The mormon church did not impact her life. She claims it's just another mainstream Christian church like Congregational or Presbyterian because that was her experience.

I dispute anyone who claims that a person can shrug off the mormon experience and move on if they decide to do that and that every mormon situation is equal.

If you did that, congratulations. If you think that means you're better than those who need recovery time, I dispute it.

Ok i didn't want to be mean today but f#ck it someone has to represent guys like me. If you can just easily walk away then i would guess that you were not born in the church and were in it for less then three decades, had zero trauma throughout it all, put in less than 10 grand to the church, barely put any service into the church, no emotional investment, a brainwashed mind without knowing it until therapy(that's if you are brave enough to get real therapy before you off yourself). I never said i hate currect ex-missionaries, they don't claim to be missionaties now so f#ck off on that point, former missionaries are not missionaries. They don't play dress up and knock on my door every two weeks. An ex-missionary is not a missionary, those days are far gone sorry man if you still think you are a missionary or anybody else here. I am sure there is therapy for ex-missionaries that think they are still missionaries. If i can find trauma therapy then i am sure they can get help for still thinking they are a missionary. F#ck i really didn't want to get on today but people were telling someone was being a jack@ss on this thread. Sorry if i hurt your feelings. Hate is normal, its part of the human condition. If you can just sit back and relax and watch tv all day and not hate that is fine, but i have to see and deal with these guys constantly.

Where does Free Man imply in his statement every Mormon experience is the same? He said just the opposite. That some are able to rise above their setbacks without giving in to hate or fear. The woman you mention was a Mormon in name only. How could it have phased her since she didn't understand what she'd gotten herself into?

Free Man's statements are valid and legitimate observations without judging adam or others. It is fair to say there are many former missionaries on this board. So are they open game to adam's hatred for them by virtue of their missionary status? What he said sounded actually helpful for someone like adam in his current situation. Instead of making excuses for his antisocial behavior. And it is antisocial, considering the rants he's gone on and his overall lack of emotional stability including any degree of empathy for those he hates.

Does that mean others here are exceptional because they aren't going through adam's condition? Adam comes here looking for support and advice from others. And that's what he's been given. Isn't your coddling him yet another form of enabling more of his bad behavior?

Adam could learn from Free Man's advice. You may coddle him. Others are trying to help him so he doesn't stay stuck in his rut forever. When you minimize and negate the good others are trying to do for adam, you minimize his chances for self-help by making excuses for him.

There is room for sympathy, compassion, empathy at the same time there can be differing views on what works pragmatically, whether or not it works for adam. He's been given sound advice from a number of different sources. Not all voices share your enthusiasm for coddling him.

That's ridiculous.

That's like saying a victim of pick-pocketing a dollar can get over the crime in a week, so someone who has lost everything should be able to rise to the occasion and do the same.

No one must agree with that, and I don't.

I agree with Cheryl peoples experiences are definitely not all the same. Some are much more painful than others. Its important to remember that Some people experience a lot more abuse in there mormon family than others as well. And/or been in longer have lost much more money. The losing a dollar/losing everything was a great example.

Nobody here is missionary status sorry. If they think they are then they need therapy like i am getting. Those glory days are over people if they even were glory days. From what i have seen missionaries don't impress me at all. They use the same tactics and say the same things pretty much over and over. I just feel bad because i know counseling is in their future.

I am getting out of the rut, i am not the same person i was a year ago, not even close. I did have to be more aggressive vocally with professionals but at least the things that needed to be set up and get done are finally getting done. And realizing that nobody truly gives a f#ck helps as well so i can anticipate things. I have the confidence to stand up to professionals now, sorry if you are one of them. Sometimes after i say something i am like holy sh#t that was kind of brutal but i need to get sh#t done no more tip for tat bullsh#t. If one doctor can't do it i will find one who can. I fired a lot of doctors, it actually helps if you get a good one and not one that has no clue and just wants to get through the day. Mormon doctors are the worst.

Adam, I don't think it's abnormal or wrong to hate them, but remember that they're not all the same, and remember also that if your father had his way, you would have been one of them. Maybe in some cases they just couldn't stand up to their parents.

I didn't and couldn't stand up to my parents. I tried to kill myself as a way out. And they thought i was crazy ever since. I still can barely stand up to my father and i even have professionals on my side this time around. And my mother still can make me feel like a piece of sh#t without much effort. You have to see i am defying an entire cult family on both sides, mom and father. And it feels like i am defying god himself in magnitude. This is not an easy road by any means, if i don't make it to a certain point and stand on my own completely and become a real and normal it is over for me, i learned in my twenties that physically breaking away is not enough, you will not survive without counselors and all the help you can get while you distance yourself from all that bullsh#t that kills people. It is a death cult more than a sex cult in my opinion. It causes death like nothing i have ever seen before. Half of my friends died before age 30 and i should have died at 29 but it didnt take, there is something very wrong there and i come back and see people(GAs) living like kings off of other peoples money. It's mental warfare whether people acknowledge it or turn the tv on and turn the other cheek and ignore it. If you are alive you are in this whether you acknowledge it or not. They will never give, the machine or monster will always keep going so we must work twice as hard.

What was the cause of death for your friends who died before age 30?

That's what you [they] get for hating... I mean thinking.

Hey Adam
Had a close encounter with tssc, did proper investigation, mainly thru this forum and found the truth, cancelled the dunking
So I see, at a distance, the elders often because their office ( church ) is nearby. They look so miserable coming out of church on Sunday morning ( almost suicidal). They probably know the true truth, but they're stuck here, half way around the world from home, for another year.
I went thru that hate thing to, mainly because of the many lives they've screwed up. Sure tssc is cultist and some members almost evil.
Trouble with hate is it's like drinking the poison and waiting for the other guy to die.
I've ended up just feeling sorry and sad for the mishies , they're young and dumb, never been exposed to the real world and totally brainwashed. They're going mad trying to keep the family and church off their backs, and get thru this ordeal.

It is sad and troubling that TSCC sends young men and women barely out of high school to do its bidding throughout parts of the world not even a tourist would dare to wander.

They aren't prepared for that rite of passage anymore than an eight year old brainwashed child is to be baptized at the 'age of accountability.'

Whatever doubts and misgivings they might have are quickly put on the shelf so their parents won't know their hearts aren't really in it - but they aren't strong enough to just say no.

But they are not all alike. We can't know by looking at them what they think and feel or if they are suicidal as asserted above.

That's part of the problem is you don't know who are who.

Until someone does off themselves. And by then it's too late to do anything to intervene because it was so well hidden from others view.

They internalize their anger and depression because it isn't safe to ask for help from their parents or authorities. They are told if they're depressed it is a spiritual void or spiritual illness, instead of mental illness that is medically treatable and curable.

Because of misinformation and being deceived they don't know where to turn or who to trust.

The victims of missionaries also feel they can't vent or post here because they're called nasty racially charged names and told it's all their fault if they object.

There are many RfM'rs who were missionaries once. I haven't noticed the same hostility you refer to.

They are here like you, me and others are.

We may have come on different boats, but the one thing in common is a shared history of having been LDS.

Many non Mormons also participate here on RfM. I don't see how they are at odds nor have I seen them called names. But then I don't read all of the posts. I don't have time to.

because someone expressed how they felt about harassment, trespassing and lies. It was so ugly yesterday as to be deleted, thankfully.

The same thing happened to me for years because I sprayed mishies with a garden hose when they trespassed and wouldn't leave my porch as if missionaries had a right to ignore repeated requests to stay away from my door.

Oh, yes, many exmos and TBMs see mishies as darling pets who deserve to be babied no matter how they act.

I haven't noticed that kind of treatment here.

They do deserve to be given the same consideration we show to others here IMO. Today's mishies may be tomorrows Rfmr's.

A little kindness goes a long way. It doesn't mean we are to accept proselytizing or preaching by them.

But to treat them with kindness unless/until by their actions or behaviors deserve otherwise.

I haven't had any Mormon mishies trying to preach at me or proselytize since I resigned from TSCC. Did that aggravate me back in the day? Yes it did. But the mishies themselves are not the problem as I see it. It is the snow job that was done to them since birth and they swallowed the kool-aid whole.

As for Badassadam's mental illness/es, he also has quite a few physical illnesses & impairments to go along with that. I'm not sure exactly how the church is responsible for his mental illnesses any more than it is his physical ones.

Being what they are. It could be he is lashing out and venting at the church for causing his suffering because it's convenient for him and an easy scapegoat - especially here.

It isn't only the church that causes him pain if you read his posts. It is any number of things that trigger him. One day it was a non Mormon near him he wanted to hurt. Today it is missionaries he wants to rage against.

His own father is a trigger for being a Mormon while trying to help him. His way that goes against Adam's better judgment. What parent doesn't try to help their child if they're able to?

Mental illness being what it is is internal, and needs medical intervention if he is going to get well.