I have real difficulty keeping my Mormon friends because I find it almost impossible to believe that they're good people when they know they're singing the Praises of a man who abused his power to rape his followers children and have sex with their wives.
My two best friends were Mormons return missionaries married in the temple tons of kids very high and Mormon leadership when I left the church. They know more than me about Joseph Smith and how he married other men's wives and teenage daughters. They don't care. That doesn't even enter into their Consciousness unless I bring it up. Nobody brings it up to them except me. Nobody brought it up to me for 50 years. Even though I'm a 5th generation Mormon in the church I don't think anybody brought it up to any of my forefathers either. I hope that none of them knew about it. Because I don't think I would have any respect for them if they knew about that and still kept singing his Praises. I would think that good people when they find out they're singing the Praises of a pedophile in a cuckold bull would immediately stop take their children and run not walk away from the Mormon church. But they didn't why because they were living in a herd and their survival depended upon it. Thankfully mine does not. Thankfully when I found out I took my children and ran from the Mormon church. And I'm so grateful I did so that my children would have a chance to be more than just good people, who overlook attrocities, sex crimes against kids, in order to "get along" with all the other "good people" enabling abuse.
I wanted empathetic children, children capable of emphasizing with others, victims of patriarchal abuse of pretend patriarchal power.
I wanted to raise really good people and I did. Kids who would self-actualize and the seek after more than mere Comfort or survival but really ultimately to fulfil their highest peak needs. To live happy lives of gratitude.
Fortunately I did so outside of the abusive Doomsday sex CULT i was born into. And they are now doing the same with their kids.
My best Mormon friends are raising good kids too, although one of them kicked their kid out on the street for rejecting MORmONism at 18.
And he knows more than me about history of Mormonism. He has accumulated volumes of damning information anout every god damned sin of JS and BY.
He just doesnt judge.
Hes not me.
I hVe to judge peoples character, to protect my loved ones from the kind of attrocities I have witnessed as a Mormon, because MORmONS are tge first to turn on their kids if they EVER breath a word about any kind of abuse or if they come out as, gasp "same sex attracted".
I really have a tough time respecting or even liking anybody like that.

I know a couple. But we're not talking, so I could pretty much say no.

Sure. Lots. Starting with my Visiting Teacher, and jumping to the owner of my local 'poorboy' sandwich shop. (And in-between, ran into an old--male--friend at my local pharmacy a day or two ago, with my son.)

Also, one of my best female friends played the piano at my husbands funeral (and plays jazz at local bars around town for a living). You should hear her play the piano at church--she gives music a great beat (and doesn't need to follow a song book).

But then, I live in California, L.A. county, and we don't have near as many LDS here, as does Utah. And Mormons in L.A. aren't as uptight as in Utah--much more casual.

Plus, I don't go to church or socials anymore, so I am not as 'up' on Mormons in my old ward and stake as I used to be.

My dad and mom and a few others.

Actually, I do. I live in a heavily lds neighborhood in SL County. Probably 85-90% lds. Most of them are judgmental jerks once they finally got it we weren't interested in joining the church. Husband and wife a few houses down, retired High School VP and retired engineer. Helped the guy fix his Jeep a few times and his wife always remembered my kids B-Day & brought her a little present. We snow blow each others walks, whomever gets out first. Don't have much in common, 20 year age difference, but they are good neighbors. I guess my main qualifier for calling them "good people" is they don't try to force church stuff on us.

I enjoy my TBM daughter, her husband and their kids, my grandkids.

I chose to judge them by a standard that fails in terms of turning them into two dimensional caricatures.

My grandfather who walked out of an endowment session.
My father and brother.
Many neighbors.
My pharmacist and local grocer.
The two Marines that had my back when I was outnumbered in a fight.
My neighbor across the street.
Almost all of my extended family. I have brother that shunned me but no one else.
Many people I work with.

You are fortunate that most of your family did not shun you. Count your blessings.

Yes: Several colleagues in my department, some friends from my undergrad, a couple of neighbors including the sweet old lady up the block, a few family friends, and the one of my kids who's still in the church.

The other TBM relatives, though -- definitely not nice people, although they pride themselves on being "good."

YES!! Many. One is my husband of over 50 years that has now passed. I've known many LDS people that are good, honest, hard working people that I would trust. Also know some that don't meet that criteria. Pretty much what you find with most people. Some are stellar and some, not so much.

Yes, I've known MANY good people who are LDS. The only ones I have difficulty with are the "head in the sand" judgemental types who know nothing about the real history of the Church/JS and they don't want to know. They prefer being stuck in stupid and remaining ignorant because they want to be known by others as faithful, rather than learning truth for themselves.

Other than that, Mormons are generally-speaking - exceptionally good people.

Scores. Most Mormons I know are good people.

Still unaware of the problems with the truth claims of the church? Most of the Mormons I know.

I used to be just like them. My hope is that more of them will find their way out too.

Yes. Just like I've met people of other faiths who are good people.

Yes. Most people are basically good.

When my children finally told me about how the adult Mormon leaders abused them, and how the bishop's son tried to molest my little girl--and how they were threatened not to tell me--and how the Mormons made children were afraid to tell their own mother the truth--

--I took my children and ran! Just like Koriwhore did! WTG, Koriwhore!

Good people don't hate. They don't lie to and manipulate others. Mormons do this to children. Mormons are after our children, to recruit them as tithe-payers for life.

Yes, it's true that the Mormon church enables and condones abuse. Good people would never go along with this.

I'm able to compare various groups, and I have come to the conclusion that the Mormon cult is evil, and most of its members must be evil, too, because they support the lies and support the money-grabbing, and worship a pedophile, polygamist criminal.

I will not do business with Mormons. I'm too busy to carefully screen each individual I work with, so I have to make shortcuts. Mormonism seems to be a marker for dishonesty and disloyalty, in general. There are exceptions, of course, but darned few, in my experience. I used to hire for a company in Silicon Valley, and Mormons lied on their resumes, very often. I wouldn't hire an employee or work with a client who openly expresses hatred of minorities and other target groups; Mormons try to hide it, but it's there, from birth, in how they were raised. Sorry, but NO.

Yeah, Mormons are a "target group" for me to want to avoid, and I might even be breaking some rules, but this comes from being a Mormon myself, from research, and from many very bad experiences with Mormons. I'm a private citizen, and have a right follow my gut, and to keep "bad" people out of my life.

I submit for consideration the likelihood that anyone going through what you did would manifest the same symptoms.

I feel the same way about blondes with only high school educations...

I know many fine Mormons. I don't know if the percentage is higher or lower--perhaps lower--than in the general population, but in any case I view people as individuals. I know several that are in the same class as the best people I people I have had the privilege of considering friends.

Frankly, I find the question either naive or insulting or both.

Lying is required in their church, so they are liars. Bigotry is also required as is shutting off parts of the brain and letting others do the thinking.

So if being a good person is about being clean cut and keeping the front lawn trimmed, yes, they're good.

In other ways they're usually not so good.

If a person is really a MORmON member , then they are doing at least one of the following;supporting the MORmON Leadership BreathUrine (MLB), aspiring to be like the MLB, emulating the MLB.

IF they are a good person then their endorsing the EVIL of LD$ inc is like a diamond with a huge streak of calcite running through it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l8tccvnKEy0

Yes, one but she is pretty liberal for a Mormon and generally good human being. There are almost no mormons in this area but I know her through internet contacts.

Yes, there are Mormons who are great people beginning with my family. My parents, sibling, nieces and nephews are all TBM. They all know I believe it's a cult and support me as an ex-Mormon. The last conversation I had with my parents (who are now 80) about my disbelief was 25 years ago. My mother brought up the "we'll be in the celestial kingdom without you" guilt trp. I responded she could drop by whatever kingdom I ended up in since Mormons believe you can puddle jump around Kolob. Of course, I asked her to call first.

It's so nice to be able to have a beer or glass of wine without being judged.

It breaks my heart when I hear families exile non-believing members. A true example Mormonism is not a Christ based at all.

I worked with some men in my 20s who treated me better than any mormon has ever treated me. In fact, they have treated me better than anyone has ever treated me. Some of them have passed away. One of them got me back together with the guy I dated back at age 20 who is a nonmormon. He always thought I should have married him. He often would say, "You should have married Mike."

These men are truly some of the best people I've ever known.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/13/2018 09:52AM by cl2.

I’ve known lots. TSCC gives people an excuse to be good. They don’t realize that they don’t need excuses. They can be good without the church, and would be better people if they left the church. Pretending things that are provably false are somehow true, by staying in denial and twisting everything to make it fit, can’t be healthy.

All the Mormons I know are really good people that I'm glad I know.

Can you call someone "good" who turn a blind eye and go along with the bigotry, misogyny, and homophobia that their church endorses?

Everyone has a range of qualities from bad to good. Who is 100% good? Some Mormons may possess some good qualities but I am unable to label any Mormon 100% good.

Pronouncing someone as "good" is a generalization. When you generalize you are skipping over the details and not seeing the whole picture. Every Mormon is a sum of all their parts. Are all their parts good?

"The Devil is in the details," as they say.

I think most are good people.

However, I exclude the ones who are old enough to know certain truths and sit there and deny what was taught in the past.

I understand you're embarrassed about temple rites before 1990. I understand you're embarrassed about the stance on black people before 1978. I understand you're embarrassed about the current stance on dead dunking. (I saw a few people just recently claiming that you can only submit close relative's names for dead dunking and wholesale dunking of any name you can find does not happen.)

Okay I understand you are embarrassed and probably don't agree with some things the church did or does, but if you stand there and claim that it never happened, or that outsiders misunderstand, then you are not a good person. You are a liar.

I think that the "The church is perfect, people are not" meme is a little backwards. I think in reality the people are more perfect and they are the ones pulling the church into the 21st century, at least as far as human rights issues go.

I used to think that all of the good people I grew up with are actually good people at heart. My dear seminary teacher who showed up every morning with well-prepared lessons and lots of vigor I thought of as a great person. My former bishop who practically raised me as his own son, who took me on campouts and who penned the most flattering endorsement on my mission papers was a good person, I had thought so anyway.

Then I left the church...and CA prop 8 happened. I looked up on the internet the list of the people who contributed to that horribile campaign...my former seminary teacher and her husband gave $10,000 to it. My former bishop gave $3,000 to it. Looking at the list of contributors on-line was like looking at an old ward directory of southern california. I recognized a hundred names at least. All of my heroes growing up gave in to the campaign to stop marriage equality. So...were they great people?

Like most everything in life, things are complicated. It is one thing to be a great person in the morg while they cheat another on real-estate deals or don't pay their taxes because they are working with CRUT accounts they funnel their money through. Would any of these people even talk to me today if they met me on the street? Would any of them help me move? (The REAL friend test BTW). No - they are not great people. I wish we were all better than this.

There are good Mormons. I agree with you that the church asks its members to surrender their moral autonomy and that that is evil for everyone involved; that is why I think the church is, on balance, a seriously negative force in the world. But there are some Mormons who refuse to go along.

On a lesser note, I had a similar experience back in the Prop 8 days. I'm not sure why I looked it up; maybe curious about the goings on among you strange Californians. Anyway, there was a man I knew and respected, a wealthy stake president, whose name I sought out on the donation list.

At first he gave $500 to the Prop 8 campaign. I interpreted that as his doing the least he possibly could while still obeying his superiors. A few weeks later, though, he gave $25,000 more. The figure $25,000 showed up so frequently on the list that I inferred it was what the church was ordering its rich members to pay. So the stake president, the man I admired, buckled under the pressure.

$25,500 to take rights and dignity away from an entire class of human beings. . .

I didn't respect that man any more.

Classifying any group of people as good or bad is fraught with peril. Obviously the prop 8 thing was bad BUT...it did bring about marriage equality for the entire nation. Still, supporting prop 8 is bad. BUT they were only following orders...? The church puts its people in harms way by forcing them to support positions they should even be in.

I feel that the CULT is EVIL. I'm pretty clear on that. The people that the cult controls...? That is a grey area.

I forgive them if they understand what the really did and why it was wrong. There can be a redemption for most of them if they work towards it. Not that they need MY forgiveness. I'm not anyone special. I'm just saying that I will give any mormon a pass if they can recognize that they did bad things in the name of the church and they know better now. I was a minion of the cult too...

I agree that the church is evil. I'm also pretty close to saying that about the members who obey the church when it tells them to do something as invidious as Prop 8. Individuals are responsible for their own actions and inactions; they cannot throw up their hands and invoke the "following orders" mantra.

When I say that there are Mormons whom I consider good, I am not referring to those who do as they are told in serious moral matters. I am writing about those who refuse to do that. And I know a number of such people, including a couple who criticized Prop 8 on national television.

As for forgiving those who supported Prop 8 and then subsequently realized the gravity of their actions, I am glad that judgment and forgiveness are above my pay grade because I generally consider such people suspect. Will they really stand up for what is right next time?

In many cases I have serious doubts. It was right to support Prop 8 until that referendum became an obvious mistake; now it is right to regret having supported that monstrosity. How do we know that today's penitents will be tomorrow's saints?

100% of Good / Bad for mormons is skewed around tscc, period.

Most important is the decisions & focus-priorities members observe & learn, repeated & reinforced Every Interaction with (Brainwashed, 'church-broked') leaders.

Almost Totally AWOL are focus on the Basics of Honesty (for rank & file Only!) Kindness, Respect for others...

Most Notable Monson quote is/was: "Let's Go Shopping!"



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/14/2018 03:01AM by GNPE.

My dad, my sister #2, and my brother #2, as wellas one sister-in-law, are genuinely good people. Others in my family are basically good people, but they sometimes let Mormonism get in the way of their judgment in treating others.

I know a lot of good Mormons. It is totally wrong to characterize a whole group as bad.Stereotype much???? Judge people as individuals and realize you dont have to agree on everything.

bona dea Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I know a lot of good Mormons. It is totally wrong
> to characterize a whole group as bad.Stereotype
> much???? Judge people as individuals and realize
> you dont have to agree on everything.




True. I agree, but the fact is now, 61% of Mormons still support Trump, more than ANY other demographic, despite the sexual assault, despite the payoffs to porn stars, while his 3rd Wife is back home nursing their 1 mo. old son, despite his racist accusations against Obama, claiming he was a Kenyan.
Good people don't support a bad man....
....unless they're singing the praises of even more of a sexual predator/con man/
....unless they're family or friends
....unless they're a means to an end

Good people can be ignorant.

Conditioned ignorance from a young age. It’s hard to blame them.

Babyloncansuckit Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Conditioned ignorance from a young age. It’s
> hard to blame them.

You gotta work hard at ignorance 20yrs into the information age.
I was Mormon once. I know how it is to avoid the appearance of evil, but when you're alone in the middle of the night, on your own computer, and you have serious questions you need to answer, not just for your own satisfaction, but for the good of your children, you want them to be able to survive in a world full of abusers and people who would take advantage of them, you do the search. You follow the evidence to where it leads.
There is no honest way to conclude that it's good to teach your children to sing the praises of a man who cuckolded his follower's by having his way with their wives and teenage daughters. Not in my opinion.
If there is, I'd love to hear it.
And I've heard them all.
I've offered hundreds of Mormons $1,000 if they could answer one question for me honestly. So far nobody's done so.
I'm still waiting to find an honest Mormon.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/14/2018 05:02PM by koriwhore.

Not if you dont care or watch Fox News and consider everything else fake

knowing he married his followers wives.

Knowing there is no theological, scriptural, legal, moral, ethical, honest justification for that perverted practice, unique to MORmONism.

The BEST they can do is excuse it by claiming:

a. God told him to do that.

Where is that written? It's not. That's a lie. I can tell you where God's commandments are written, which cover this kind of thing, adultery and cuckolding your follower's by marrying (aka, having sex with) their wives, in case you're wondering. The 10 commandments. 2 of them. 1/5th of them. Don't covet your neighbor's wife and don't commit adultery with her. And it's covered in the Law of the Priesthood, D&C 132:61 in 5 different ways. He violated all 5. So did Brigham Young. Making them what? Adulterers. And we all know what happens to adulterers, right? God was pretty clear about that. But you ignore this why?

b. I KNOW Joseph Smith didn't do that!

Well then the Mormon Church's own white paper on the subject, published on LDS.org is a complete lie. Is that your claim? That your leaders are liars? We might agree upon that.

c. What about....

1. Abraham?

Instead of doing the right and legal thing and divorcing his wife and marrying a single woman before making babies with her, he went ahead and made a concubine of his maid? That was barbaric, against the law and an abomination before God, like it says in the Book of Mormon and you want to use a barbarians behavior for modern sexual behavior? Wow. That's sick.

2. King David.

Seriously? He did one of the most immoral things any human could do. He got a hard on for another guy's wife when he saw her getting out of a bath, and sent her husband off to fight on the front lines of a barbaric battle, knowing it would get him killed, just so he could fuck the guy's wife. Nice. If you're using King David for a moral guide, stay the fuck away from me and my wife!

d. He did it to save the poor women from their horrible, unworthy husbands.

Really? Henry Jacobs served 8 missions for the church, while both Joseph, then Brigham Young stayed behind to make babies with his wife. You'd think you'd have some compassion for a fellow Mormon who had his life destroyed, just so Brigham could make wife #69 out of the love of Henry's life. And stole his children while he was at it.
You'd think if he was unworthy to have his wife and children to himself, they wouldn't send the guy on 8 missions.

e. He had a higher priesthood, so it was justified.

Where is that written? That's a lie. I can tell you where it's written, 7 different times in the scriptures, which prohibit that practice in 7 different ways, twice in the 10 commandments and 5 times in the Law of the Priesthood, just one verse, D&C 132:61. You should really read it.

f. He didn't have sex with them, so it was justified.

Where is that loophole written?
"Do not covet your neighbor's wife, unless you don't actually have sex with her."? It's not.

That's a lie. I can tell you where it's written, 7 different times in the scriptures, which prohibit that practice in 7 different ways, twice in the 10 commandments and 5 times in the Law of the Priesthood, just one verse, D&C 132:61. You should really read it.

g. God commanded it at that time.

Where is that written? It's not. That's a lie. Where did God command anybody, anywhere to make babies with their neighbor's wife? Nowhere. In fact, that's adultery, written all over the scriptures. It's against the law anywhere it was ever practiced in Western Civilization.

And you sing Praise to the Man to this man why?

If Mormons don't know about the real life of Joseph Smith and Brigham Young, 20years into the Google Age, why?

Because they've all been brainwashed to believe EVERYbody else is lying, except Mormons, and even some of them are lying, like Todd Compton and the church itself?

Not only are Mormons these days liars, they're delusional in my experience.

I thought my Mormon dentist was a good guy growing up. Turns out he was also later a Bishop who knew a man in our ward, was a convicted pedophile but figured he had repented, so he made him Boy Scout leader and left him alone with my scout troop, to continue abusing other scouts, for years. He was sued along with a bunch of other Mormons I thought were 'good people'. Turns out my entire ward growing up enabled this sexual predator to get away with raping kids, because sex was a taboo subject and you were not allowed to speak evil of the Lord's Annointed, even if they were abusing you.
I could go on.
And provide plenty of evidence to back it up every word above.

Yes. Many. As tempting as it is to hate the church and everyone and everything that is associated with it, the reality is just far more complicated.

Speaking even as a bitter apostate, I still have to admit that a very large part of who I am and what I believe still comes from my Mormon upbringing.

Let me ask you this....do you consider yourself to have been a bad person back when you belonged to the church?

I think of the lies I told as a missionary. I didn't do it deliberately or maliciously. I sincerely believed what I was saying...even if it was (mostly) bullshit. I genuinely believed I was helping even if in reality I wasn't. I sincerely tried to do what I believed was right at the time.

I think of my dear seminary teacher from nearly 30 years ago. A very large part of what she taught us was complete crap. But the love and concern she had for us was as real as it gets. And that is what sticks with you.

"I think of the lies I told as a missionary. I didn't do it deliberately or maliciously. I sincerely believed what I was saying...even if it was (mostly) bullshit. I genuinely believed I was helping even if in reality I wasn't. I sincerely tried to do what I believed was right at the time."

Those weren't lies, my friend. They were unintentional falsehoods but not lies.

Lot's Wife Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "I think of the lies I told as a missionary. I
> didn't do it deliberately or maliciously. I
> sincerely believed what I was saying...even if it
> was (mostly) bullshit. I genuinely believed I was
> helping even if in reality I wasn't. I sincerely
> tried to do what I believed was right at the
> time."
>
> Those weren't lies, my friend. They were
> unintentional falsehoods but not lies.

Thank you, LW, for this. Many don't understand the difference

Some have accused Mormons of lying, which is a deliberate act of deceit.

Most TBM's really believe what they are saying, and are not seeking to deceive. They are telling falsehoods.

If an investigator a asked, "Will I be expected to go to the temple to have full respect in the church?" A mishie would likely answer that it would be a matter of free choice while knowing there would be considerable pressure in that direction.

If someone said, "I can't afford to pay 10%, will that be acceptable?" The mishie would say, "Of course, it's up to you." No, they'd be punished in many ways and would have to pay up or lose credibility.

If someone said, "Do mormons respect members of other religions equally to their own, the answer would be, "Mormons respect everyone's right to worship as they see fit." No, they don't.

There are 100s of lies mormon tell and explain away as milk before meat. They think mormons will excuse them once they're fully indoctrinated.

I'd bet that not one in a hundred converts are warned that mission meetings is sin and that someone will come looking for them if they indulge in that sin.

I agree. None of the Mormons I know lied to me. They told me what they believed. They were mistaken, but that isnt lying. Lying is deliberate.

bona dea Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I agree. None of the Mormons I know lied to me.
> They told me what they believed. They were
> mistaken, but that isnt lying. Lying is
> deliberate.

Every Mormon representative I speak with lies through their teeth, then ends the conversation without answering my question. This was from a minute ago.

Exhibit A:


Now chatting with: Sayuri and Whitney
Whitney 2:03 PM
Hi Kori! This is Whitney and Sayuri, we would love to help you today!
Kori 2:07 PM
Hi.
Kori 2:07 PM
Yes I had some questions about Mormonism.
Whitney 2:07 PM
Awesome! What are your questions?

Kori 2:08 PM
I read on LDS.org about Plural Marriage in Kirtland and Nauvoo. It said Joseph married his follower's wives, 12-14 of them. Is that something you share with your potential converts before they get baptized?

Whitney 2:08 PM
We do address any concerns or questions they have.

Kori 2:09 PM
But do you tell them that or do you omit that part of Joseph's history his marital status with other men's wives?
or extra curricular activities with them?

Whitney 2:09 PM
No we do not, we know that God commanded Plural Marriage to be instituted during that time.

Kori 2:10 PM
So how would you address the question of Joseph's adulterous relationships with his follower's wives?

And isn't that lying by omission if you omit that fact, that would prevent 99.9999% of people from joinging a church started bya guy who abused his power and authority by having sex and making babies with his followrs wives,when there's no legal, scriptural, moral or decent way to justify that kind of perverted behavior?

Whitney 2:12 PM
We invite you to reread that article completely. We know that as you read it, all of your questions will be answered and you will have a better understanding of that commandment. https://www.lds.org/topics/plural-marriage-in-kirtland-and-nauvoo?lang=eng

Kori 2:14 PM
I've read it 5 times. It doesn't say anything about how that perverted practice was justified, scripturally. Because it's not. It's condemned 2 times in the 10 commandments and 5 times in the law of the priesthood.
D&C 132:61
Have you read it?
Whats it say about marrying other men's wives and claiming them as your own?

Whitney 2:15 PM
Thank you for sharing your insight. We invite you to reread that article. We know that God has reason behind all of his commandments. Have a great day!

The chat session has ended.

Lying sacks of shit.
all of them.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iIdhV3839RA&t=11s

God didn't command anybody to go fuck their follower's wives.
EVERY GD MORmON I speak with lies about that. Throws God under the bus for Joseph's serious sins. Nice.

Keep an eye on anybody who can justify fucking your wife and teenage kids by claiming God told me to do it!

That is your experience, it isnt mine.

bona dea Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> That is your experience, it isnt mine.

The difference is, I shared my experience, from today, in writing where Mormons lie through their teeth by blaming God for Joseph's perverted behavior.
And Mormons lie, every GD time.

I've got lots more examples if you want.

Well, you choose to troll online mishies so you arent going to get a lot of respect from them. They could be lying or maybe they honestly believe what they say.Mishies are kids barely out of high school, not theologians or experts in church history. Of course some Mormons lie. In fact everyone lies occasionally. My Mormon family and friends would not behave the way you say you have been treated. They are not racists or homophobic. Some are conflicted at some of the church teachings and take the good and reject the bad. Others are misinformed and trust the leaders way too.much, but that doesnt make them evil. That kind of black and white thinking is not helpful.I am sure you have many other examples ,but you can find plenty of examples of good people too unless you insist that simply being a Mormon makes you evil. I reject that as bigotry.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/14/2018 06:31PM by bona dea.

bona dea Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
unless
> you insist that simply being a Mormon makes you
> evil. I reject that as bigotry.
No I never said Mormons are evil. I am 5th Gen mormon and nobody was evil in my family, that I knew of. I just knew a lot of evil Mormons who I thought were good people growing up.
But you cant defend Josephs Myth and BYs adultery. The best Mormons can do is lie by omission. Change the subject.
I dont troll missionaries. I ask real questions in response to their frequent ads where they claim they wilk give real answers to real questions.
Mormons cant hide behind "children'.
Ive got children their age fighting our greatest existential threat. They cant represent their founder w/o lying through their teeth and falsly blaming God for Josephs sins.

As long as we're not requiring perfection to be the standard for "good," there are plenty of them.

My sister is one. Somehow she grew old without ever marrying, and now retired, devotes time almost every day to volunteering at hospitals and veteran's centers. She's lonely, and I can tell she feels out of place in her Utah culture, but she enjoys helping others. I've grown to admire her more and more over the years.

Good people are good. Bums are bums.

The difference is tscc tries to take credit for the good.

I've known some really fine people who were Mormon/LDS.

If not for the sour apples, they could make a difference.

I have had some wonderful Mormon bishops. As a child growing up in Primary and Sunday School classes we had some salt of the earth teachers who were dedicated and loved the kids.

Some of my relatives were salt of the earth type of Mormons. If not for the bad apples my shelf may not have cracked in the first place.

Once it did, and from there like a springboard I was able to study my way out ... the gig was up.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/14/2018 06:53PM by Amyjo.

Let's get personal.

Anyone who thinks I'm a bad person, can't be a good person.

exminion Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Let's get personal.
>
> Anyone who thinks I'm a bad person, can't be a
> good person.

Ego defense exhibit A:

What if all you've done is prove her point?

elderolddog Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> What if all you've done

Im not the one singing praises of a pedophile. Good people dont defend a bad man. Mormons do. I dont.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/14/2018 08:48PM by koriwhore.

koriwhore Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> elderolddog Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > What if all you've done
>
> Im not the one singing praises of a pedophile.
> Good people dont defend a bad man. Mormons do. I
> dont.


I think it reads better to conclude your phrase with "Mormonism does. I don't."

Changing mormons to mormonism makes it palatable. Although it's my impression you won't be satisfied.

Just because someone is duped does not mean they are a bad person.

Naive maybe. Gullible. But to describe someone as bad because they were born into or joined a cult overlooks that they are innocent victims of a scam.

Two in particular. My mother and my maternal grandfather. My mother was an "Army Brat" of a BIC mormon mom and a convert at age 45 dad. My mother was a Special Ed teacher, and was tolerant of and patient with everyone. My grandpa was in the Army for 22 years and knew what the world is like. Neither of them ever said a bad word about anyone.

They both died in 2003, my mother still strongly faithful, but never judgemental, and grandpa hadn't attended church for awhile, and I often wondered if he was having doubts. Our family is not emotionally revealing though, and so things often went unsaid.

The matriarch of the family has just died today, and she was staunchly Mormon, and was nice to people outside the family, but not to us. She left everything to the church, including the house that grandpa had left to my mother and me. When I became disabled (multiple sclerosis), she decided that I couldn't afford to pay the expenses and had the will changed. I wonder what she's experiencing on the Other Side now.

I'm so sorry to hear that about your grandmother.

She sounds like a deplorable person.

:(

My TBM daughters-in-law are both wonderful.

My wife.

She's not an evil liar, as you are wont to imply; she simply doesn't know any better because she doesn't want to believe that she was duped by a church that threw her a lifeline when she needed it most.