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Posted by: memikeyounot ( )
Date: January 12, 2018 09:06PM

I wrote about my copy of the Mormon Murders a couple of weeks ago.,2061244,2061244#msg-2061244

I'm done reading it, at least the parts that I want to read. It's really a sad, sad story and I certainly don’t feel any sorrow for Mark Hofmann, but I do for all the people and families he hurt, both his and Steve Christensen’s and Gary Sheets, etc.

All the church leaders come across as real assholes and I'm surprised that what happened didn't make me more upset than it did.

Anyway, I'd like to pass this book along to anyone who'd like to read it. I live in Salt Lake City and would be happy to meet you somewhere (how about City Creek Mall)

##### UPDATE: Somehow I missed the rest of what I was trying to say: if you are interested in this book, please email me, my email address is in my profile.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/13/2018 01:09AM by memikeyounot.

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Posted by: baura ( )
Date: January 12, 2018 09:17PM

I read that book. As I read I kept count. I'd personally met 10
different people mentioned in the book.

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Posted by: mootman ( )
Date: January 12, 2018 09:56PM

"To Fred Harmon (devout Mormon, chief ATF investigator), the real villain was President Gordon B. Hinckley. He saw no chagrin on Hinckley's broad, implacable face. No repentance. No apologies. No admission of wrongdoing. Just arrogance--plain unbridled arrogance. As far as he was concerned, Hinckley had fallen for Mark Hofmann's blackmail, bought up damaging documents and hidden them away in his private vault, and in so doing, indirectly contributed to the deaths of two innocent people.

"And then lied about it...Hinckley had lied outright by saying he had met with Mark Hofmann only casually and with Steve Christensen (first bomb victim) only once; he had lied indirectly by allowing Church spokesmen to deny that the Church owned documents he had bought."


"'How is it that you felt comfortable relying on Mr. Hofmann as a sole basis for purchasing these documents?'

"Hinckley looked him in the eye. 'We relied on Mark Hofmann's integrity.' he said gravely. 'If we were deceived, then it's to his eternal detriment.'

"Wow, thought Biggs (county attorney). Heavy stuff. But hardly responsive.

"They tried another approach. As per Joseph Smith's instruction, every good Mormon is supposed to keep a detailed daily diary of his or her activities. Over the years, the Church's leaders had been extraordinarily conscientious in obeying that injunction. So they asked to see Hinckley's diary entries for his meetings with Mark Hofmann. 'I don't keep a diary,' Hinckley responded quickly, as if he were prepared for the question.

"After another hour of evasions, memory lapses, and sermonettes, Biggs lost his patience. 'President Hinckley. This has been in the news---people have died---isn't there any way we can get some information about your meetings with Hofmann?'

"Hinckley couldn't contain his indignation. 'This is the least of my concerns,' he huffed. 'I am an extremely busy man. I have worldwide concerns. Mr. Hofmann is a postscript...' he reached for the rest of the phrase, ' the walk of life.'

"You wish, thought David Biggs.

"When Bob Stott (devout Mormon; head county prosecutor) finally worked up the courage to talk about Hinckley's testimony at the upcoming preliminary hearing Wilford Kirton (Church attorney) jumped in.

"'President Hinckley doesn't wish to testify at the hearing. We think it would be in everyone's best interests to not have him testify.'

"Someone suggested that he would have to testify at trial.

"'You don't understand,' said Kirton imperiously. 'President Hinckley does not wish to testify at the hearing, at the trial, at anything.'

"Even Stott had to be outraged. This was putting him, as a devout member of the Church, under wholly unacceptable pressure.

"Hinckley had obviously wanted to stay out of this discussion, but it was clear from the prosecutors' reaction that nothing less than his personal intervention would calm the furor that Kirton's comments had unleashed. So he decided to give another sermonette, this one on the subject of 'priorities.' He sat down with Stott as a father would sit down with a wayward son.

"'This isn't that significant, as it relates to Church matters,' he said softly. 'It's the Church that matters. You have to consider the Church first. I don't wish to testify.'

"This time Stott said nothing.

"But that wasn't all Hinckley wanted. 'I think it would be in the best interests of the Church,' he added in the same mellow voice, 'if you simply dissmissed the charge.'"

(The Mormon Murders: A True Story of Greed, Forgery, Deceit, and Death, Steven Naifeh and Gregory White Smith, 1988, pp. 309, 357-358)

-"Where there is honesty other virtues will follow-In our day those found in dishonesty aren't put to death, but something within them dies-conscience chokes, character withers, self respect vanishes, integrity dies. How cheaply some men and women sell their good names."

(Standing For Something--10 neglected virtues, Gordon B. Hinckley)

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Posted by: ipo ( )
Date: January 13, 2018 01:06AM

Read the book years ago, the deceit & arrogance of the "leaders" still shock me. They have no honesty, no conscience.

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Posted by: fordescape ( )
Date: January 13, 2018 12:16AM

An excellent book. I'm glad you read it. The tale end, the last paragraph on the last page is telling, about follow the brethren.

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Posted by: desertman ( )
Date: January 13, 2018 02:22PM

I have a copy. I have read it and studied it. If only 1/2 of the allegations contained therein are true it is a huge indictment of the validity of the Mormon leadership invalidating all claim to communication with the inspiration of deity.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/13/2018 02:22PM by desertman.

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Posted by: MRM ( )
Date: January 13, 2018 04:23PM

After you mentioned the book I downloaded the book and it is excellent read. I read the book several years ago when I was TBM and enjoy it more now looking through different eyes.

The hardcover book I had purchased several years ago was stolen by my TBM friend. He asked to borrow the book but never returned the book. I found out later this is a tactic of TBM's to get rid of information negative to the church.

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Posted by: memikeyounot ( )
Date: January 13, 2018 04:58PM

I've heard that TBM people are known to do that. I've always loved to read, but never have been a big book buyer. Too hard to store etc. I occasionally buy a used one but then after I'm done I end up donating it.

I also meant to update what I wrote about this book in my original post. My former mother—in-law, still friends, said she thought this box of books were mine. There were several paperback mysteries, none of which I would have bought and then The Mormon Murders. As I looked through it, I saw in the back page information that said it was from the Ruth Brady Wickes library.

I looked it up and that’s still in Saginaw MI and it also says WITHDRAWN in big green letters. So apparently, it came from some type of library sale. How it ended up her box in Salt Lake city will remain a question I can’t answer.

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Posted by: jane ( )
Date: January 13, 2018 05:44PM

The librarians here say a lot of that stuff accidentally goes missing from circulation. :-)

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Posted by: dirtbikr ( )
Date: January 13, 2018 11:57PM

Reading that book broke my shelf, game over

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Posted by: Whiskeytango ( )
Date: January 14, 2018 12:31AM

That book was the end for me. Read it in 1990, loaned it to my father and it disappeared. Bought another copy but my three year okd grandson tore it apart (no conspiracy). I know for a fact Mormons make books disappear.

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Posted by: FNQ sparky ( )
Date: January 14, 2018 10:09AM

I make books disappear to.
Was investigating tscc a few months ago, the mishies gave me lots to read including of course the BOM
Did my investigating well , discovered it was all lies and a fraud.
Thought of returning the books to mishies or recycling , but thought no one should be exposed to this pack of lies and get drawn into this cult.
They are decomposing in landfill in tropical Queensland

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Posted by: Trails end ( )
Date: January 14, 2018 12:54PM

The hinkster is like that nice old harmless gramps who shows up in the paper for molesting his grand kids...those harmless sleazy bastards are the worst...appears Gordy showed who he is...and TBMs just chuckled how smooth he was at deflecting arrows...just like gawd was putting words in his pie hole...guess you don't get to his position without knowing how to step around a few land odd that people rejoice over deception and two stepping with the truth

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