There was no "J" in the English language till the 15th century. Look it up. Christ was NEVER called Jesus in his entire life but Yahshua. There is not one "J" in the entire Geneva Bible yet the church is named after a non-existent person. I am sure that JS simply did not know that in 1830.

'Romeo and Huliet' then?

'King Hohn'?

'Hulius Caesar'?

Hohn Falstaff?


Shakespeare takes on a whole different vibe...

William Shakespeare (26 April 1564 – 23 April 1616)

15th Century = 1400's.

:-)

That 15th century claim is at odds with a 1633 date (17th Century, honest) I saw...

https://nypost.com/2015/02/08/the-stories-behind-the-letters-of-our-alphabet/

This source is a little suspect, particularly the part about "hieroglyphics" (did they mean hieratic?) but I'm not going to give this a lot research because, frankly, it's a lot of histrionics and hyperbole, IMO (and I've got bigger fish on the stove right now).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J

Have fun with the Wiki information; I found it tough going, I did most of a Master's in English. I can see there are a lot of gaps in my knowledge. It would nice if the $#!% talkers out there would recognize their own limitations, seriously.

Joan Beaufort was born in 1379. "J"oan Beaufort. Jh sounding Joan.

John of Gaunt, Duke of Lancaster, and his then-mistress, Katherine Swynford. They had several illegitimate children, collectively known as the Beauforts. In later years, when the Duke and Katherine were free to marry, the King, Richard the Something (I forget) declared their Beaufort children to be legitimate under law, as a wedding gift.

This freed the children to marry into nobility, which they could not have done as "bastards."

I love this story! It's from the novel, "Katherine," by Anya Seton.

My parents are distant cousins through two of Joan Beaufort's daughters she had with Ralph de Neville. She is my great grandmother a few times over.

That is quite a story of their legend. I'm glad I wasn't there to witness it up close and personal. If I was my reincarnated memories have been scrubbed from my computer hard memory drive.

PS Me thinks it was "Richard the Bad."

:-)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/21/2018 10:43AM by Amyjo.

Language and vocabulary changes. Reconciling differences is interesting to me, an writer, sometimes necessary and sometimes simply entertaining. Some words are incorrectly translated because of cultural

For example, some people criticize the Bible because Jesus' (Yashua's) disciples plucked ears of corn from the field and ate them on their way. "Aha!" say the critics. "There was no corn in the ancient Middle East--it's a Western Hemisphere plant! See--the Bible is wrong, wrong, WRONG!" The explanation is simple: in the 16th and 17th Century, all grains were categorized "corn" in England. The disciples were simply munching on kernels of wheat or barley or something.

No need to get bent out of shape whether it's Jesus/Yeshua/Joshua, or Jenovah or Yahwen, or YHWH.

Last thought: One of my favorites is that there is no "Jezebel" [nasty lady] in Hebrew. It's probably a transliteration of the Phoenician/Aramaen "Yz-Baal," meaning "The Prince ('Baal') lives/is present."

Yeshua didn't speak English, either, regardless if there was a J or not.

And he couldn't have been "J"ewish!!!!!

elderolddog Wrote:
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> And he couldn't have been "J"ewish!!!!!

:D :D :D

This is as lame as the argument that "Adieu" 'proves' that the BoM could not have been translated, because how would a pre-Columbian Hebrew-speaking Reformed Egyptian writer know a French word?

a) Adieu is also an English word, though it was derived from French. So are no doubt several hundred other words in the BoM. Adieu is just the most obvious example.
b) The JS BoM also contains 522 pages of English words, none of which Mormon would have known either.

Having a 'French' word in the BoM doesn't prove that it is fiction. All it proves is that JS knew a French word. If he made the BoM up, he used a French word in the process. If he translated the BoM, the word Adieu seemed like the most appropriate word that JS knew to convey the meaning of the Reformed Egyptian word/phrase. The word itself tells us not a damn thing about the historicity of the BoM.

Julius (as in Caesar) wasn't spelled with a J either. In fact, it also wasn't spelled with a U. The spelling in Latin is IVLIVS. That doesn't prove that any English language document that spells it Julius is fiction. It just proves that it is a modern English rendition of Ivlivs.

I hope that this doesn't devolve into the sacred name movement and all the cults associated with this fixation on how Jesus' name was pronounced during his life and any deviation from that usage is akin to a mortal sin.

Trust me, these people are beyond tiring and annoying. Also, could their possibly be a better example of missing the forest for the trees?

Jesus is pronounced "Hey-su" I learned when working in a call center.

When I made my outcalls, and the contact's name was Jesus I'd say "Is Jesus there?" I'd get a pause, and then a "What?"

So I'd repeat, "I'm calling to talk to Jesus."

My pod mates around me would erupt into giggles because they knew the pronunciation of Jesus wasn't Jeezus. They explained it to me, and I felt sheepish silly funny. Then I laughed right along with them once I realized what all the giggling was about.

:)

There was a big tank and artillery battle in the last Arab-Israeli war. An Israeli commander noticed some non-combatants in the valley that separated the warring sides. He arranged for a cease-fire, jumped in his command car, and raced down to the bottom of the valley.

There he found a bearded man leading a donkey. Seated on the donkey was a very pregnant young girl. "You can't be here!" the commander said. "Don't you know there's a war going on? Who are you, anyway?"

"My name is Joseph," the man said, "and this is my wife Mary. We're going to Bethlehem. She'll probably deliver her baby there."

"Joseph...Mary--Are you going to name the baby 'Jesus?'" asked the commander.

"What, JESUS?" exclaimed the bearded man. "What do you take us for, Puerto Ricans?"

That’s lol funny!!

If it was good for the Apostle Paul, it's good enough for me!

You are on a roll. Bravo! :D

"J" has existed since Roman times, and first became a distinctive letter in Middle High German.

The High Middle Ages are c. 1000-1300 CE.

If there was no "J," what does that do to the Documentary
Hypothesis?

vigilant Wrote:
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> There was no "J" in the English language till the
> 15th century. Look it up. Christ was NEVER called
> Jesus in his entire life but Yahshua. There is
> not one "J" in the entire Geneva Bible yet the
> church is named after a non-existent person. I am
> sure that JS simply did not know that in 1830.

To begin with, Christ didn't speak any English. And most languages that use the latin alphabet used the I for J and the V for U until J and U were introduced.

So IVLIUS CAESAR and IESVS. That's all, folks.

No doubt Geoffrey Chaucer wouldn't have spelled his name as he did if he'd had our now familiar letter J.

Geoffrey Jaucer?

csuprovograd Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Geoffrey Jaucer?

Most Egyptologists spell the name of the third-dynasty pharaoh,
and builder of the step pyramid at Saqqara as "Djoser." And his
first name wasn't Geoffrey.

Hope this helps.

baura Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> csuprovograd Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Geoffrey Jaucer?
>
> Most Egyptologists spell the name of the
> third-dynasty pharaoh,
> and builder of the step pyramid at Saqqara as
> "Djoser." And his
> first name wasn't Geoffrey.
>
> Hope this helps.


I could feel my IQ engorging as I read your concise explanation...

Or maybe it was just gas.

vigilant Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> There was no "J" in the English language till the
> 15th century. Look it up. Christ was NEVER called
> Jesus in his entire life but Yahshua.

If this "Jesus" guy actually existed, he was never called anything in English.

How we translate into English the words of ancient languages varies, and isn't precise by any means. Sometimes it's contextual, sometimes it's phonetic, sometimes a combination of both, and more.

The name "Joshua" in English was never heard in the ancient Middle East. That's how translators rendered it in English, but it's not something any "Joshua" of the time ever heard. So I don't know what point you're trying to make about what to call the bible character "Jesus" in English -- if you want to speak Aramaic or Hebrew, spell it and pronounce it like they did. If you want to speak English, "Jesus" or "Joshua" is just fine as a translation.