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Posted by: Birdman ( )
Date: January 22, 2018 01:44AM

When I think of Monson I think of an algebraic equation: Monson = Hypocrite. When I was still a member in the 90’s, people would be denied temple recommends in our ward because they drank too many Cokes or Pepsis. I remember students at BYU getting in trouble for drinking Cokes. I used to frequent a convenience store across the street from the church office building. An employee would frequently come into the store with an attaché case. Inside that case were two large soft drink mugs. He would fill the mugs with Coke from the soda dispenser and then scurry back into the church office building. Speaking with people about that person I was told that everyone knew what he was doing but the security guards would let him pass because it wasn’t obvious.

Now we have Monson an apostle and president of the church and now very dead, with his “calling an election made sure”, getting a free pass while true believers were frightened into confessing to their bishops. With a “wink and a nod” suddenly caffeinated drinks are acceptable at BYU and probably no longer an issue for temple recommend interviews.

I know that there are much larger issues surround Monson’s legacy, but sometimes the trivial issues, which nobody really notices or cares about are a true insight into a man’s character.

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Posted by: Badassadam1 ( )
Date: January 22, 2018 01:51AM

The whole saying coke is now ok rubbed me the wrong way for some reason because i drank coke and everybody made a big deal out of it. It was a big deal to drink caffeine back in the 90's but all the sudden the prophet drinks coke or pepsi and now he gets a free pass and so does everyone else? Big time hypocrite is the correct phrase for that dude/creature.

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Posted by: Birdman ( )
Date: January 22, 2018 02:36AM

Ironically I got exactly the opposite information from my Bishop. It was a rather lengthy lecture on obeying the spirit of the law rather than the letter, meaning just because it wasn't specifically mention - caffeine - the meaning was obvious and should be obeyed. He likened it to drug use - not being specifically mentioned in the word of wisdom yet prohibited.

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Posted by: Birdman ( )
Date: January 22, 2018 02:38AM

Oops, replied to the wrong post. I think I need to go to bed. Sorry

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Posted by: janis ( )
Date: January 24, 2018 01:27AM

Your reply is right on.

My father held back temple recommends to members who drank caffeinated sodas. Never mind that he drank Mountain Dew by the liter.

I was a Pepsi drinker myself. My Bishop fil drank 16oz. of it every single morning. He referred to it as his medicine. I used to sit and have a Pepsi with him while eating breakfast. I gave up Pepsi years ago, and now drink black coffee. Ex fil died from Diabetes.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/24/2018 01:41AM by janis.

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Posted by: commongentile ( )
Date: January 25, 2018 06:30PM

I've mentioned before in this forum that when I first met Mormon missionaries and other Mormons years ago, most of them opposed drinking any beverage that contained caffeine, and the presence of caffeine was certainly the reason given for the prohibition against drinking coffee and tea. But now, with caffeine no longer considered to be a problem, it seems to me that the specific prohibition against drinking coffee and tea is nothing more than a blind test of obedience for Mormons. No longer can they erect a philosophical scaffolding that indicates it is wrong to ingest any psychoactive chemicals.

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Posted by: Visitors Welcome ( )
Date: January 26, 2018 01:29PM

janis Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> I was a Pepsi drinker myself. My Bishop fil drank
> 16oz. of it every single morning. He referred to
> it as his medicine. I used to sit and have a Pepsi
> with him while eating breakfast. I gave up Pepsi
> years ago, and now drink black coffee. Ex fil died
> from Diabetes.

ROTFLMAO!

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Posted by: seekyr ( )
Date: January 23, 2018 06:28PM

But you're still the bad guy because you drank Coke BEFORE they said it was okay.

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Posted by: alsd ( )
Date: January 22, 2018 01:53AM

To be fair it was under Monson's watch that caffeinated Coke and Pepsi became officially acceptable, and BYU began selling regular, caffeinated, soft drinks as well.

The Coke/Pepsi prohibition was never an official or universal thing. I remember asking my bishop about it during a temple recommend interview in the early 1990s and his response was that the church had no guidance on soft drinks, and since caffeine was not specifically mentioned in the WoW, it was okay in his eyes.

I think many took the BYU policy on soft drinks as being representative of official church policy and thus, incorrectly in my book, applied it to temple recommend interviews.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/22/2018 01:54AM by alsd.

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Posted by: ificouldhietokolob ( )
Date: January 22, 2018 10:52AM

alsd Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The Coke/Pepsi prohibition was never an official
> or universal thing.

Yes, it was.

“Whenever a drink is advertised to 'give you a lift,' the 'lift' is likely to be caused by the drug which it contains. Such soft drinks are decidedly harmful and habit-forming, even though sold by the millions. Such caffeine-containing drinks, offered by every soda fountain and most eating places, and consumed in large quantities, should be known and avoided.”
(Elder John A. Widtsoe, 1937)

"The coca-cola habit has made rapid inroads into the lives of an unsuspecting people" (Improvement Era, vol. 21, March 1918)

"...we do now specifically advise, against the use of any drink containing harmful habit-forming drugs under circumstances that would result in acquiring the habit. Any beverage that contains ingredients harmful to the body should be avoided” (Priesthood Bulletin, Feb. 1972, p. 4)

That it was never "official" is the church trying to avoid appearing to change their tune (yet again) after Monson and his addiction gave them the okey-dokey. Yes, the church absolutely did officially teach not to drink coke or other caffeine-containing soft drinks. Yes, they later changed and have tried to pretend they never taught that.

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Posted by: alsd ( )
Date: January 23, 2018 04:46AM

ificouldhietokolob Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> alsd Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > The Coke/Pepsi prohibition was never an
> official
> > or universal thing.
>
> Yes, it was.
>
> “Whenever a drink is advertised to 'give you a
> lift,' the 'lift' is likely to be caused by the
> drug which it contains. Such soft drinks are
> decidedly harmful and habit-forming, even though
> sold by the millions. Such caffeine-containing
> drinks, offered by every soda fountain and most
> eating places, and consumed in large quantities,
> should be known and avoided.”
> (Elder John A. Widtsoe, 1937)
>
> "The coca-cola habit has made rapid inroads into
> the lives of an unsuspecting people" (Improvement
> Era, vol. 21, March 1918)
>
> "...we do now specifically advise, against the use
> of any drink containing harmful habit-forming
> drugs under circumstances that would result in
> acquiring the habit. Any beverage that contains
> ingredients harmful to the body should be
> avoided” (Priesthood Bulletin, Feb. 1972, p. 4)
>
> That it was never "official" is the church trying
> to avoid appearing to change their tune (yet
> again) after Monson and his addiction gave them
> the okey-dokey. Yes, the church absolutely did
> officially teach not to drink coke or other
> caffeine-containing soft drinks. Yes, they later
> changed and have tried to pretend they never
> taught that.

To be more specific it was never officially tied to the WoW with regards to the temple recommend interview. I specifically asked about it during my first temple recommend interview in July 1990 (long before Monson was at the helm) and the answer from my bishop was that there was no specific prohibition against it for temple recommends. Growing up in the 1970s and 80s I knew several local church leaders who drank Coke/Pepsi.

I guess you could argue, based on the statements you provided, that it is like the R-rated movie "prohibition". Sure there have been statements made, but the question does not come up in the temple recommend interview. (Regarding the R-Rated movie issue - how does the church expect people who reside outside of the United States deal with that one? There is no movie rating system in the country where I now live.)

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Posted by: ificouldhietokolob ( )
Date: January 23, 2018 08:47AM

You're right, it wasn't officially tied to the TR interview. It was "official" though, and there were numerous SPs and BPs who "unofficially" made it part of the TR interview. Another example of what leading by "the spirit" does -- you get inconsistency, since "the spirit" is whatever some priesthood holder in a position of authority decides it is :)

I recall reading somewhere some "guidance" for countries that didn't have the US movie rating system...I'll have to see if I can find it. It basically said don't see movies with sex in them (of course, violence is ok...).

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Posted by: messygoop ( )
Date: January 23, 2018 12:28PM

Unfortunately, there were plenty of PH leaders that used additional criteria to deem members unworthy.

I was told repeatedly to stop drinking root beer while stationed at the MTC. It was causing the necessary missionary spirit to be offended. I was told that I would suffer tremendously if I failed to find the lost sheep

Forgot to mention this was Barqs root beer with caffeine. Coke was offered as caffeine free.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/23/2018 06:51PM by messygoop.

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Posted by: alsd ( )
Date: January 27, 2018 03:27AM

messygoop Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Unfortunately, there were plenty of PH leaders
> that used additional criteria to deem members
> unworthy.
>
> I was told repeatedly to stop drinking root beer
> while stationed at the MTC. It was causing the
> necessary missionary spirit to be offended. I was
> told that I would suffer tremendously if I failed
> to find the lost sheep
>
> Forgot to mention this was Barqs root beer with
> caffeine. Coke was offered as caffeine free.

I was lectured by my uncle at a family reunion once because I was drinking IBC root beer. He claimed the bottles looked too much like real beer, and so I was giving the appearance of evil. I immediately went out and bought a few more six packs of the stuff.

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Posted by: bluebutterfly ( )
Date: January 25, 2018 08:41PM

Thank you, Hie, for posting these gems. We will not be gaslighted!! This topic keeps coming up in my family. When caffeine first became 'legal', my crazy social-climbing TBM sister was so excited that she could now drink caffeinated soda and energy drinks. Still won't drink coffee, though...she is indoctrinated to think it's evil. Lmao So a few times since caffeine became 'legal', my 'inactive' sister has called out my TBM sister about it. TBM sis gets all huffy and defensive and tries to say that she's an adult an can drink whatever she wants and always has.

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Posted by: vigilant ( )
Date: January 22, 2018 01:26PM

The simple fact is that Coke and Pepsi are extremely acid with phosphoric acid. They are packaged in reactive light metal Aluminum cans. Almunium Phosphate is the result and many believe that the increase in Alzheimer's is due to this aluminum salt in the brain. The stuff is poison and I don't care what Monson did or said.
If you don't believe that Aluminum is reactive, scratch n aluminum storm door or other aluminum metal. It will be a bright silvery color for 1/2 minutes and then turn dull to aluminum oxide. It is that reactive.
One of the best ways to get cancer is to have an acid diet. I have known several people who followed the WOW and had heart and cancer problems.

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Posted by: ificouldhietokolob ( )
Date: January 22, 2018 01:43PM

vigilant Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ...many believe
> that the increase in Alzheimer's is due to this
> aluminum salt in the brain.

"Most mainstream health professionals
believe, based on current knowledge, that exposure to
aluminum is not a significant risk factor. Public health
bodies sharing this conviction include the World Health
Organization (WHO), the U.S. National Institutes of
Health (NIH), the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency
(EPA) and Health Canada. Further, it is unlikely that
people can significantly reduce their exposure to aluminum
through such measures as avoiding aluminum-containing
cookware, foil, beverage cans, medications and other
products. Even if aluminum were clearly implicated in
Alzheimer’s, these routes of exposure account for only a
small percentage of the average person’s intake. Most
experts encourage people to focus wellness efforts with a
proven impact on health or quality of life—avoiding
smoking, exercising regularly, eating moderately,
maintaining social connections, and remaining
intellectually active."

U.S. Alzheimer's Association Fact Sheet
( https://www.alz.org/alzwa/documents/alzwa_resource_ad_fs_aluminum.pdf )

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Posted by: paisley70 ( )
Date: January 22, 2018 05:00PM

I slather my armpits with the stuff every morning. I can't get enough Aluminum Zirconium Octachlorohydrex gly in my system! I fits in those sweat pores just nicely!

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Posted by: ificouldhietokolob ( )
Date: January 22, 2018 05:31PM

Yep :)

Most of the aluminum in our bodies comes from the water we drink and the plants we eat. Thousands of times more than what we'd get from drinking even two dozen sodas a day, or slathering on anti-perspirant ten times a day...

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Posted by: Birdman ( )
Date: January 22, 2018 07:39PM

Don't present speculation as fact. There is no scientific proof to support this.

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Posted by: incognitotoday ( )
Date: January 22, 2018 01:45PM

‘We all gotta die sometime, Red.’ -Tom Berringer, Platoon

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Posted by: saucie ( )
Date: January 22, 2018 01:59PM

Our stake patriarch had a years supply of diet pepsi in his

garage.... he never got into trouble... he and his wife were

very cool. The entire church is such a hypocritical mess. I'm so

Glad I'm out.

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Posted by: Badassadam1 ( )
Date: January 22, 2018 08:55PM

saucie Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Our stake patriarch had a years supply of diet
> pepsi in his
>
> garage.... he never got into trouble... he and his
> wife were
>
> very cool. The entire church is such a
> hypocritical mess. I'm so
>
> Glad I'm out.

You got that right saucie.

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Posted by: moremany ( )
Date: January 22, 2018 02:05PM

They QUIT the caffeine ban for three main reasons. (1) Mittens, (2) Monsoon, (3) image!

YES, it still needed (needs) changing. THEN they lied about it and said it was never banned or prohibited and it wasn't sold at ybu because it wasn't in demand.

LDS - Lying Deceiving 'Saints'

M@t

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Posted by: pollythinks ( )
Date: January 22, 2018 02:12PM

What the heck does drinking a soft drink have to do with whether or not you are a good person?

What nonsense.

Nothing better to say to youth and grown ups to guide them to a happier life?

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Posted by: Gheco ( )
Date: January 22, 2018 06:13PM

Technically he would be a dead hypocrite.

But, without that evil caffeine, he obviously would have lived a couple of hundred years.

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Posted by: cl2 ( )
Date: January 22, 2018 08:45PM

My mother wouldn't touch it even if my dad and everyone else drank caffeine. She died 9 years ago. Wouldn't she be shocked? I've given it up several times, but when my daughter bailed on her wedding, I decided I wouldn't give it up again.

Better than alcohol in terms of I have 3 siblings who are what I'd call functioning alcoholic. My sister gets drunk every night after work. Things like that. I guess I could do that. My family members have very addictive personalities.

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Posted by: Badassadam1 ( )
Date: January 22, 2018 09:06PM

cl2 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> My mother wouldn't touch it even if my dad and
> everyone else drank caffeine. She died 9 years
> ago. Wouldn't she be shocked? I've given it up
> several times, but when my daughter bailed on her
> wedding, I decided I wouldn't give it up again.
>
> Better than alcohol in terms of I have 3 siblings
> who are what I'd call functioning alcoholic. My
> sister gets drunk every night after work. Things
> like that. I guess I could do that. My family
> members have very addictive personalities.

I quit caffeine because my nuerologist told me it was contributing to my headaches and migraines and she was correct.

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Posted by: goldrose ( )
Date: January 23, 2018 12:40PM

Let's pretend that the WoW was revealed to TSC. Do you think Jesus would be say that a sugary, artificially flavored, artificially colored drink, would pass Jesus's requirements? When I lived in Provo I lived close to Sodalicious, there was a long line in the morning for one of the soda shops all the mormons love.
When I pointed this out to my mother, who is one of those people, she would say that there's a reason why we can drink soda, but we don't know the reason yet....good one.

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Posted by: readwrite ( )
Date: January 23, 2018 07:51PM

Mormons are hypocrites.

Their Church is in apostasy.

It is one big hypocrite.

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Posted by: Birdman ( )
Date: January 24, 2018 12:25AM

Just reading some of the comments, it puts into focus what I hate most about the church. I remember the magazines drives for worthless magazines with endless recycled articles with new pictures, the worthless manuals with the same old content but with new covers, the true believers that worried about drinking hot chocolate or eating chocolate candy, the people that dressed up in their homes to listen to General Conference because some GA said that even though they were at home they should wear their church clothes, the people that sat through mind numbing meetings taking notes because they were told that important principles were being taught, the poor souls that listen and obeyed and won’t read the Sunday paper because some GA said that it violated the intent of the Sabbath, the endless luging around their Triple Combinations. Then depending on the mood of some new apostle or prophet telling their true believers that it wasn’t really doctrine and their devotion had been misguided. The “Do Be’s” that were taught at nauseum of Hinkley’s, from a man that didn’t even appear to understand the doctrines of the church over which he presided.

Monson, who couldn’t even pretend to support the members that suffered with guilt because they drank a coke or a cup of coffee. I actually think hypocrite is being too kind.

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Posted by: messygoop ( )
Date: January 24, 2018 10:00AM

This^^^^

So accurate. After every GC, the YM lessons as deacons and teachers were about increasing our spirituality. It was 4 months of hell, while focusing on imaginary rules, doctrines and protocols that had been suggested by some "GA". I remember getting cornered inside the quorum classroom by the YM prez after I gave inappropriate answers to this crap. I believe the question was "How do you strive to be better understand the words of the apostles?"

I told them that felt the greatest peace when I was quietly folding paper airplanes. (This was 100% true. I would bring a clipboard with paper to the stake center and sit along the wall. Nobody ever bothered me and I was quiet and didn't disturb the elderly that were snoring away.)

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Posted by: ProvoX ( )
Date: January 24, 2018 01:32AM

Elementary, my dear Watson:

The whole darned thing is a farcical lie. WWJD? Harp on the minutia that your place in his church is jeopardised by ones consuming a gosh darn soft drink? Really, Ladmo? Is Heavenly Father that anal?

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