I think everyone who saw the “covenant path” press conference realizes what is about to happen at chuchco. The pressure to obey and be intolerant will be ratcheted up to levels not seen since TSCC openly opposed the gay marriage amendment in CA.

I think the Uch is pissed off. He was making progress and got shut down. Does he have the balls to break Europe off from the church?

No.

He is a TBM. And he really has a legit chance of being Prez someday

I don't think so. The church in Europe is shrinking fast. If Uchtdorf tried to break off and start something, he'd be jumping from a sinking ship to a sinking dingy.

I think the possibility of a schism is more on the political and religious right in the Intermountain West. Snuffer, in other words, or someone like that. It is people who believe the old history but want to see prophecy and visitations from Jesus who are passionate enough to split off.

I think the church is feeling some heat about displeasure from the flock. They just printed an article in the D-News about Uchdorft's "important new assignments" - "chair of the Missionary Executive Council, chair of the Correlation Executive Council and the primary contact for the Europe and Europe East Areas."

https://www.deseretnews.com/article/865695279/Church-leaders-announce-new-assignments-for-Elder-Uchtdorf.html

They know a lot of mormons, especially outside of the US, love him. This too shall pass.

stillanon Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I think the church is feeling some heat about
> displeasure from the flock. They just printed an
> article in the D-News about Uchdorft's "important
> new assignments" - "chair of the Missionary
> Executive Council, chair of the Correlation
> Executive Council and the primary contact for the
> Europe and Europe East Areas."
>
> https://www.deseretnews.com/article/865695279/Chur
> ch-leaders-announce-new-assignments-for-Elder-Ucht
> dorf.html
>
> They know a lot of mormons, especially outside of
> the US, love him. This too shall pass.

If their goal is to keep more people, especially young people, from leaving, then the fact that so many love him will help with that if he isn't tied up with busy work of the 1st presidency.

He is more free to travel around as a member of the 12

"If their goal is to keep more people, especially young people, from leaving, then the fact that so many love him will help with that if he isn't tied up with busy work of the 1st presidency."

True, but the church is all about the hierarchy, the pyramid. Uchdorft got demoted in the eyes of many. No matter how they sugarcoat it.

StillAnon Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "If their goal is to keep more people, especially
> young people, from leaving, then the fact that so
> many love him will help with that if he isn't tied
> up with busy work of the 1st presidency."
>
> True, but the church is all about the hierarchy,
> the pyramid. Uchdorft got demoted in the eyes of
> many. No matter how they sugarcoat it.

Black and white thinking.

It's not "all about hierarchy." It's also about trying to keep as many as Mormon as possible and numbers.

The whole "16 million" + stuff

That’s a lot of ball gags.

Maybe he asked to step aside. We will likely never know.

There were 15 sects that broke off when JS was killed, the biggest ended up not being the one led by smith family. There is a HUGE schism in the church now. The 12 have been fighting over the future of the church bee since Hinkley passed. I think when Nelson brings the hammer down on obeisance and starts excommunicating people for disagreeing with the hardcore doctrine, combined with the current prevailing sentiment in the USA of talking past each other it could happen.

It could. But not because of Uchtdorf, correct?

how do you know that there is a huge schism? How many sides? who is the leader of the various positions?

messygoop, Re: "Could uchdorft cause a schism?...Maybe he asked to step aside. We will likely never know".

I think it extremely doubtful that a capable man with intelligence, talent and full of possibility as Uchdorft, would be willing to offer "to step aside". To me, he doesn't appear to be the 'selfless' kind.

I don't think he is down and out yet by a long shot. Besides, isn't he younger than most of the competition?

This highlights the minefield that this hidden system of governance / "leadership" that the LDS is currently;

Sadly, this has been coming for a long time, but TBMs don't care to notice.

Circling The Wagons paradigm when most people expect if not Demand transparency.

No. If there were any TBMs truly upset about Dieter going back down to the minors (and I would have been one of them), they will be rebuked by their leaders, reminding them that such personnel moves are "inspired." For the handful that won't be satisfied with answers like that, they will probably be pacified by the fact that Dieter will no doubt become a very visible cheerleader for the church. People loved Hinckley because he was always on the go - visiting members where they lived. He wasn't just an old guy on a screen. Nelson is too old to travel much, and I doubt he even wants to. I predict Dieter will be dusting off his Lufthansa frequent flyer card very soon to be the church's new ambassador to the little people. Honestly, he is the only apostle who could even remotely get me to feel anything good about the church again, so if they don't send him out and about they are dumber than I thought.

It is obvious. There have been conflicting direction sent out from Salt Lake. Soda was ok, then that was taken down. Joseph Ith papers published with some fanfare, but not incorporated into daily Mormon life. The letters that were published and actively hidden on the church website. And the biggest one, the ever changing rules on how gays and the rest do the alphabet letters are treated.

Hinkley set the stage for doubt to anyone who was listening. Monson didn’t have a spine and was a weak leader, which is why this got to be such a big problem. Nelson is retrenchment, plain and simple. Keep the core. Let the rest go.

This posted in the wrong place. Supposed to be an answer to how I know there is a war in the 12. Or was.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/25/2018 08:01AM by icanseethelight.

icanseethelight Wrote:
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> Hinkley set the stage for doubt to anyone who was
> listening.


That's a nice thought. I wonder if we'll ever know whether or not he truly believed...

i always thought he was the antichrist, maybe i am no longer alone.

And here is where President Nelson has made his first major blunder right out of the gate. If you're going to send Uchtdorf down to the minors, you send Eyring down with him. That way you can bring up Oaks and one other, without centering out Uchtdorf.

The idea is the the transition of leadership should be seamless, without any conflict or controversy.

Looks like President Nelson didn't really think things through.

Dieter will find ways to stir up the nest, but he's a captive of the system and his hands are tied.

The whole thing is mess because the brethren can't think for themselves.

Peter, James and John, the Three Nephites and Jesus H Tapdancing Christ himself could uncloak at the podium at next general conference, raise their arms to the square and declare the church a scam, and it would have no affect on any of them. Human psychology is literally incredible. We get there ourselves, or not at all. Sapiens indeed.

Void K. Packer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ...Jesus H Tapdancing Christ himself...

Yeah, I just had to reference that:

http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/001/121/810/afa.gif

:)

Excellent! That shoulda been in our mishie flip charts.

Could uchdorft cause a schism?

Fa shizzim wit da nizzim!