Hello everyone, I am a mormon convert and a filipino. I was baptized when I was 17 yrs old with my dad. We were devoted Catholics but right before I was visited by Mormons, I was considering becoming an atheist. One time I found a pamphlet underneath my bed and it was a story of a man who saw God and Jesus Christ in a vision (I do not know at this moment that it was Joseph Smith). I thought it was a catholic priest who had a miraculous vision. I was at this time having faith crisis about God. I always believed in people who were having miraculous experiences with God and I was praying to God over and over to give me that kind of experience so I could like those people bring good news that He is real but He never gave me that vision. Then I read this story and it intrigued me.

The following day, I was surprised that a filipino and american mormon missionary came and introduced themselves to us. They said that they have been teaching my big bro about the gospel for several weeks already and had requested if they could also meet with the rest of the family. I was stunned by an american elder because of his skill in speaking our language so I began to listen. They taught us the lesson about joseph smith and the prophets. It gave me a familiar ring since I've read the same pamphlet they were using. I was asking them how could a boy see God and the Son in just a single prayer while I was praying all my life for the same experience and never had received even a dream. They answered me that God manifests himself in many different ways but mostly it is through the Holy Ghost and that I could also receive God's answers through my feelings. They then introduced us the Book of Mormon as Joseph Smith's evidence that he really saw God and his Son. They promised us that if we read, ponder and pray if it is true as promised by an angel named Moroni who was the last prophet who wrote in that book, God wouLd manifest to us that it is true, through the Holy Ghost.

They gave us 3 Nephi 11 as assignment to read. I did pray about it and my big bro too. I never had received any spiritual experiences after I prayed but when the missionaries came back to follow up, they asked us if we read about the chapter gave us and prayed about it, we said we did then they asked how do we feel about the book, before I could speak, my big bro said he felt an overwhelming feelings that the book is true and that he thought God answered him. I was puzzled and quite disappointed with myself and a bit confused about why in a world God does not answer me? What have I done wrong? Nevertheless, the missionaries asked me what do I feel? I was very young 17 of age and I am afraid that if I say I didnt feel anything, I would make the situation become awkward since the situation has become dramatic. So, I said I felt that the book is good but I dont know if God answered me. The missionaries went on to say that my feelings about the book being good is God's answer so I was kinda like saying to my head "Oh is that it?". Nevertheless, the discussion went on and it was about the chapter we've read that Jesus gave authority to baptize and for a baptism to become valid, one must be baptized by one having priesthood authority. They told us that since God gave us a confirmation about the truthfulness of their message, we have to make a decision whether we would follow Christ's example and be baptized by one having authority. My big bro said yes, but I was too hesitant but like Lemuel, I was like following whatever my big bro Laman has to say so I made a big "YES" decision to get baptized.

We have to attend church service on two consecutive Sundays to qualify for baptism so we did and was eventually baptized. However, I never mentioned that before we got baptized my father was proselyted too. He was a devoted catholic but seeing that my big bro is listening to missionaries made him decide to get baptized too. It is because my big bro was a black sheep in the family and my father wanted him to changed his ways. If that would help him stop from bringing trouble, he decided to join us in a discussion and then made a decision to also become a mormon. I do not know how he got his testimony because the missionaries were teaching us separately since we went ahead in a lesson than my dad. I just saw him one time crying while the missionaries were teaching him while I was fetching water from a well. My father and I was the first to get baptized because my big bro wasnt able to pass the baptism interview because of his smoking habit but after two weeks of abstinence, he got baptized eventually.

Then years have gone by as a member of the church, my dad and I became really active in the church then my big bro began slipping away again into bad habits but my dad and I continued to be active. I studied Mormon doctrines and became well versed in it. When I discovered about Joseph Smith's polygamy, I was shocked then asked missionaries and my seminary teacher about whether if it was true. They said that Joseph did that because many female members were widowed because of persecution and lots of male members got killed, so God commanded Joseph to take care of the women and thus the beginning of polygamy. They had me read D&C 132 and I was kind of pacified about it. (They didnt tell me about young girls Joseph had married and women who was married to other men) Those are the only explanations they gave me. When I turned 19, there was a pressure among members and leaders that I should go on a mission. I was always working with the missionaries when I turned 18 and the reason I do that is because I found the funny side of the missionaries. I have never thought before that missionaries can act immaturely like most of the youths like me because the missionaries who taught me appears very sophisticated, he actually visited me when he became an AP. After finishing his mission, when he returned home, I was surprised that he sent me a letter with a money telling me to use it for my mission.

I have never had a desire to go in a mission but members keep on telling me that my talents and knowledge in doctrine would be wasted and that I would regret it my entire life if I dont take that once in a lifetime opportunity. Well, the first thing I thought was I was too young, too immature and I am living in poverty too. Although my dad and I were full-tithe payers, we have meager income to even support for a mission. Also, my mother was working as a domestic helper abroad and she was helping me pay for my schooling. If I go on a mission, I will have to stop schooling and disappoint my mom who's not yet a member. I told these things to my stake president when he came to our branch to interview me? He told me to forget about all of those things I was thinking because the Lord already knew about it and will provide for me. I only need to prepare 2400 pesos as a counterpart and God will take care of the rest. I told him what about my schooling and my mom? He told me that God will also take care of that. After saying that, I was thinking about how to tell my mom. So I wrote my mom a letter because I dont have a phone to call my mom so a letter was my only means of communicating with her. I do not even know how to use the internet that time. After several weeks my mom replied and was very mad at me and my dad for letting the religion take much of control of our lives. She bought and sent us a phone so we could communicate with her better. I was too afraid of my mom so I forgot about thinking on going on a mission.

Then I turned 23 years old, my mom was still working abroad. I had my own job and supporting my college although she helps me with my tuition since she wanted to contribute with my success. However, my former branch president who was serving as a stake councilman interviewed me and began encouraging me again to go on a mission before it was too late for me to go since I was 23 that time. He told me that I am in the right age to decide for myself. So after fasting and praying about it even without feelings of confirmation, I decided to stop college and work then go on a mission. My mom actually threatened me that if I go, she will never returned. I told her that I know that she cant do that. I never had imagined breaking my moms heart that way just for the Lord. So I did go on a mission for 2 years. I served well and was put in leadership positions in just 6 months as a missionary. However, I was still quite puzzled with the fact about how people could feel something after prayers while I dont. I only say to people when I invite them to make certain commitments that God "might" manifest to them the answer when they pray and read the Book of Mormon. However, I am quite too puzzled about how these people say they felt God after they pray while I do not. Maybe because the majority of the filipino people are very supersticious? I dont know. I struggled for myself and became depressed.

I am a good member, strived to obey the commandments out of guilt that leaders and members incur to you if you show lack of interest. I served as a good missionary and was very obedient although I served only out of guilt and pressure. I understood mormon doctrine as it can be found also in the bible. (Although I never searched outside the box at that time) I finished my mission honorably though. One thing I realized though that most missionaries are targeting poor and uneducated people since maybe because they are the most gullible and will most likely join the fold. They also baptize little children without making an effort to reach out for the parents since most parents are busy working. I found that troubling. When I was a missionary, I target people who are educated and can really join in a discussion not just us doing the talking. I like people who asks questions. Here in the Philippines you will most likely find missionaries in slum areas since most converts come from poor people like my family. You will rarely see them in developed areas where educated and sophisticated people resides. However, in my thinking, if they really want to build up the kingdom, they will target people who can really contribute and can help poor people. I see many inactives due to poverty and many could not even afford to pay tithing. (Not that I care anymore now since I stopped believing).

When I returned home, I was able to land a high paying job but it required me to work on Sundays too. So what happened is that I attend church on and off. I was offered by the new branch president a calling as a clerk but I said I cannot magnify it since I sometimes work on Sundays as my schedule shifts every week. Then the Branch President told me again quoting scriptures that if I put the Lord first, all things will be added. (Here's that scripture again.) I dont know why the heck I kept on having feelings of guilt everytime I refuse to do something when asked. I dont even have a testimony. Why the heck is God asking me too much while he refuse to five the answer I was asking for for a very long time while people who never really did anything for Him have received their answers! So again after two years of working in the company, I made a sacrifice once again in a hope that God may manifest somehow to me and give me answers to my prayers. I resigned from the company and found a low paying job that would allow me to have weekends off then accepted callings from the church but this time as a branch pianist. (Well, I learned playing the piano when I was on my mission, atleast I was able to get some perks out of it.)

Then one time, when I was able to buy a computer and set up an internet, I was able to watch in youtube about Joseph Smith and his polyandrous relationships and young women he married. I was able to watch the book of abraham and its real interpretation. I was shocked with what I've found out! I asked missionaries about all of these but one missionary said that those were only celestial sealings and that Joseph Smith had never had children with those women. I was racked and disturbed of their admittance. I told them how in a world would God tell Joseph Smith to send husbands on a mission so he could take their wives from them for eternity and how could he marry them without having children with them knowing that I was taught repeatedly and it was in D&C 132 that the sole purpose of why God allowed polygamy is to raise seed for him. It was also mentioned in the BOM in the book of Jacob 2:30. They were rattled and dont know what to say. I do not know if one of them is also aware of this things as he was quiet then later told me if what else do I know? One of them said that it was God who commanded it and he went on with the reasoning that God commanded man not to kill but he commanded Nephi to kill Laban then continued on with saying that men's ways are not God's ways. I told them that if they were put in a situation with those men whose wives Joseph secretly married, what would they feel? Even if that were just a celestial only marriage, could they or would they take it and move on with their lives knowing that their beloved wives will not be with them in the eternities? That missionary said he would if God commanded it then I told him that he can only say that because he knows that will not happen to him today. I told them I am done, if they are telling me that the kind of being I was worshipping is like this! I would gladly live my life in outer darkness than to live with that kind of tyranical God! I cried in front of them and right here in my house and told them I do not believe anymore and I am angry with Joseph Smith and the church. But I told them that they are still my friends and that will never change.

They never gave up on me until now. They dont visit me nmore as they maybe afraid of the questions I might throw them or maybe because the other missionary was shocked too. They just keep on sending me book of mormon messages to read And asking me to keep on praying. I told them not to waste time. I dont know how to get out though. I still attend church because there are old women there who likes to listen to me playing the piano. They are so dear to my heart and my mom too have become a member and she was very happy and active! I dont want to break her heart once again. I was so depressed to the point that I am now consulting with a psychiatrist to help me to move on. I was taking anti depressants and was thinking about suicide as it breaks my heart to see my family trapped in a fraud! They are all full tithe payers. I want to confront my branch president but I am afraid that my family would know and I dont want to confuse them especially my mom whose reasons of joining is because of me! The missionaries arent informing the leaders about my concerns as they also know that these leaders arent highly educated and living in poverty and that they do not know about all these things. It was odd that I was asking God to show me the truths and now here I am, knowing about lots of damning facts about the church, Book of Mormon translation and damning history.

I sacrificed a lot for this church and it gave me only confusion and now I am mentally sick, depressed and wanting to kill myself. I am heartbroken for my family! I dont know how to tell them to get out! My younger bro has returned from mission and was married in the temple. My big bro was active again and both of my parents. They were all full tithe payer and really believes the church ia true. But here I am, knowing the truth and living in hell! I want to die or maybe just lose all my memory and forget who I am! Now I am agnostic, although still a member of the mormon church!

[Admin edit to have paragraph breaks for easier reading]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/30/2018 07:04AM by Eric K.

Welcome, Knight! We are glad to have you here.

I would not worry so much about your family and their beliefs at this point. Take care of yourself. Tell your branch president that as of [date] you will no longer be available to play the piano, or available for any other calling. You are a volunteer and can give up callings whenever you please. The bishop is not in charge of you! Then go inactive. In time, you may wish to resign. Complete directions for how to do so can be found here:

http://www.exmormon.org/remove.htm

Resigning from the church tends to stop all or most unwanted church visitors and callers. But regardless, you are under no obligation to let church visitors into your home, or even to respond to their knock on the door. You are under no obligation to respond to people who call you on the phone. "Your home is your castle," treat it as such. No more discussions with the missionaries!

I would keep explanations to your family and church members simple. You can tell them that you simply changed your mind. Under the church's 11th article of faith, even Mormons acknowledge freedom of choice when it comes to religion. If your family wants to know why you left, you can refer them to a number of good sources, including the CES Letter. You can download a copy for free at this site:

https://cesletter.org/

Mormon Think is another good resource:

http://www.mormonthink.com/

Good luck and do let us know how things go. No church should destroy your self-esteem and your mental health. Take care of yourself now by removing yourself from the Mormon church. It is not a healthy environment for you.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/30/2018 07:28AM by summer.

Perhaps moving to a new location is in order? No mention of a significant other but would consider only non-mos or exmos. Perhaps your good job can be duplicated within the company at another location?

Gatorman

"I was stunned by an american elder because of his skill in speaking our language so I began to listen."

I'm fluent in Tagalog (and nearly so in Visayan)...as you've figured out by now, that doesn't mean you should believe nonsense if I push it on you :)

I've spent a lot of time in the Philippines. My wife is Filipina (25 years married). I know what it's like there. I also know how the mormons prey on the people there, especially when it comes to getting them to tithe on meager incomes, and how the "promises" about it never come true.

I'm glad you found out that the mormon cult is a sham. I'm sorry that your family is still stuck in it. But don't give up hope for yourself or for them -- you found your way out, they can too. And you can leave it behind and go on to have a normal, healthy, happy life.

Hang in there, pare.

Hey pare (ifyoucouldhietokolob),

Masaya ako malaman na marunong ka magtagalog! Naging missionary ka ba rito? Saan ka na-assign dito? I am happy to find my place in here. Salamat sa internet.

I did a mission, but in France. Speaking French. :)

I learned Tagalog and Visayan because I love languages and love my wife. And her family. And I wanted to be able to talk to them. Ang Tagalog ay isang magandang wika!

Ang aking asawa ay mula sa Mindanao (Davao region).Nagsasalita sila Visayan doon. I've been around a lot, from Manila to Baguio, Batangas, Bicol, Cebu and Davao...Saan ka nagmula (if you want to say)?

I still have family that are hard-core mormons. It took them a while, but they eventually realized I wasn't coming back when I left, and they deal with me without pushing me to come back. I hope that'll be the case with your family. :)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/30/2018 10:23AM by ificouldhietokolob.

I am from Caloocan City North which is part of Metro Manila and glad to know you've been in Baguio as I was assigned as a missionary in Baguio mission.

I am happy to know you (Masaya ako makilala ka!) Please say hi for me to your filipina wife! (I-kumusta mo ako sa iyong pilipinang asawa). Thank you so much, man! (Maraming salamat sa iyo, pare!) :)

knight2284 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I am from Caloocan City North which is part of
> Metro Manila and glad to know you've been in
> Baguio as I was assigned as a missionary in Baguio
> mission.

Baguio was great. Only place in PI I didn't sweat all the time <grin>!

> I am happy to know you (Masaya ako makilala ka!)
> Please say hi for me to your filipina wife!
> (I-kumusta mo ako sa iyong pilipinang asawa).
> Thank you so much, man! (Maraming salamat sa iyo,
> pare!) :)

Same here!
Visit here anytime. You'll find a lot of sympathetic folks who've been on a journey similar to yours.

Sa asawa ko says "hi back." Mayroon kaming tatlong anak, isang lalaki at dalawang babae. My halo-halo kids!

Hello guys thank you for replying. I scanned through the links provided and found it interesting. By the way, I am still single as I was expected by members to find a mormon to marry in the temple but I find devout lds women very judgemental and demanding since I dated some and I seems to always fail to live up to their standards since I was working those times in a company that requires me to work on weekends. I am always being discouraged when meeting women outside church while at the same time would get a lot of pressures to marry immidiately! Those are some details I hadnt mention. I havent been attending for 4 consecutive Sundays now. The missionaries are still texting me book of mormon messages to read and pray about. I just replied that I already committed the unpardonable sin by denying my membership since I didnt have a testimony so they should stop as I am beyond being saved.

Welcome knight2284!

I went on a mission without a spiritual confirmation too. I too felt uncomfortable telling people that I had a spiritual witness, and they too could get one.

Most of my family are still heavily brainwashed in the cult too. It isn't a great place to be in.

But life does get better once you get a little time and distance from this most confusing and painful point in your life.

Thank you Darren, it feels great to be able to connect with people who had the same experience and are recovering from it. I hope I could be successful in my recovery with the help of this online community. I hope someday I could also bring my family back to normal and stop them from wasting their time and money for the church.

Please remember you have friends here and many have been through similar experiences.

Thank you, friend :)

Dear knight2284,

First, thank you for posting your story. I hope you will please consider also pasting it onto the exmormon bio board. You explained the experience of being targeted for conversion so well, and many may find it helpful. The biography board is here:

http://exmormon.org/phorum/list.php?3

Second, the depression, isolation and suicidal thoughts are very normal and usual reactions to discovering that one has been a victim of fraud or a scam. This site is behind a paywall and/or certification membership, but the link lists the symptoms you are describing:

http://www.acfe.com/fraud-examiner.aspx?id=4294989200

Mormonism can be descibed as what is known as a "long con" or, a long (over weeks, months, years) confidence (they gain your confidence) game (those receiving the benefits of the con know they're cheating and using you for their gain). That last bit is important. Like you, many of the "lower" workers, like missionaries, either do, or want to, believe in the stories. Most of them are being victimized, too.

The reason you wanted to influence leading members of your community was that you are an honest, sincere and loving person. These good qualities were used against you, not so much by lower-level workers, but by those who script the con game. The reason you were told to target the poor and gullible is because they are easier targets for scams, and will end up giving more time (very valuable, like slaves) and what little money they have. Wealthy, influential people are not as likely to fall for the scam, nor are they as likely to become slaves to a spiritual scam or scammers, nor, be so willing to part with the security (lots of money) they have used others to gain. They are often "the takers," not "the givers." (This is not meant to describe or insult *all* wealthy people, but used here only as a general rule to describe scam non-targets.)

I am so glad you found this board. You are now starting a healing journey, one that will likely take time. The very bad "advice" that church leaders gave you in order to steal your time/work/money - you can heal from those bad feelings.

Recovery is a process, and can take time. You will have good days and bad days, but you now know that never again do you jeed to believe someone, just because they say you should. You can take your time, say you want *much* time to think something over, and never be rushed into making commitments, again. The harder they push, the more you suspect wrongdoings.

There is a one very good effect that cannot be left out of what has happened to you, and you will find it in abundant supply on this board: You are wiser. There is no question about it. You have learned a lot about life and people. For now, try to embrace this, hang onto it. It came at a very high price, and you should protect and nurture it. You earned your wisdom.

There are many former missionaries (mishies) who read and post on this board, and their lives, incomes and plans were interrupted and thwarted, just like yours. You are not alone, and many - most - of us consider missionary work to be differing levels of torture, depending on how the mishie was coerced, what happened to their health, if the leaders or companions were abusive, if they were put into dangerous or life-threatening areas, and so on. That doesn't even touch on the forced isolation from family, friends and your community. All of that is done to maintain emotional control if the mishie, and most of us here think it should be illegal. The only reason it's not, so far, is because it's considered "voluntary." Laws have not yet taken into account the extreme emotional abuse used to control these young people, and, the abusers wait until a person is considered an adult, by law, so can't be called child abuse.

You have no control over other people's choices, including those of your family. For now, the best thing you can do is to build your new, free life, show them how good life can be outside of a cult. You can be the model of healthy thinking, living, and loving. Be patient, and do not try to push your new beliefs onto them, like you were pushed. Many of us have tried that, and we end up pushing them farther away. Be your honest, good, authentic self, answer their questions honestly, and go into long explanations *only* if they ask you to. Respect their rights, even as the cult abuses their freedoms. You may or may not be successful in leading them out, but true leadership, not force and power, is the most honorable path to truth.

I hope that this helps you to know that you are not alone, nor do you have to try to figure out how to recover on your own. Many, many thousands have been through your experience, have traveled further along on the path of healing, and their wisdom has grown, as yours can. We will be here for you, an online community ready to help when we can, to ache with you when you hurt, to revel in your joyful victories, to laugh and cry with you.

You can heal, and recover the life you were meant to lead.

Peace to you, knight2284, new friend.

Thank you Quest! Thank you for the links you've provided about victims of fraud! Now I understand better the depression I am going through and the suicide attempts. I am happy to be here. Perhaps this is the answer I have been waiting for from God. Perhaps I have found the love of the real God in here. Maybe, He led me here so I can be healed. I am still agnostic though! I think God if he is real is unknown or cannot be known and that he is far from being an author of any religion which I believe now to be mad-made organizations meant to control people. Wars and division has been caused by differing religious beliefs and dogmas. The inquisition was the expression of the violence written in the bible that was believed to be commanded by god. The terrorism in twin towers and the terrorism which is now happening in the Philippines here in Marawi has been the expression of religion too. They believe that they are doing it in the name of their god and that they are just enacting his vengeance.

I believe that God if he is real will only create life... not destroy it. I dont believe in Jesus Christ anymore. He is not a literal person. He was just a figure embedded in history. Some of his dogmas are manipulative like put God first and all things will be added and those who love fathers, mothers
And brothers and sisters more than him is not worthy of him! These scriptures have been repeatedly quoted on me to incur guilt and force me to decide against my will. I was also told by a missionary trying to help me gain a testimony by quoting an apostle whose name I dont remember that a testimony is gained by the bearing of it! So, I tried to bear a testimony even if I dont have one, when it caused guilt and embarassment to myself since I feel I was being dishonest and hypocritical, I stopped from bearing a testimony again. Most of my companions are irritated whenever I tell them that they are far more better about bearing their testimony than myself whenever it is time to end the lesson.


Thank you so much for all of your comments. I will keep on posting more about my experience in transitioning back to the normal way of life.

Already you spread joy. :)

I used to think that the love inside of me, that I so wanted to share with others, was a gift from god, and that I was some sort of pass-thru vessel. I no longer believe that.

I think that most humans are born with that love, and we need only to tame any shyness or fear that keeps us holding it back. It shines out from you, knight2284, all the way to the other side of the planet.

There are sometimes very interesting, lively discussions and debates about the reality of Jesus. For me, it doesn't matter whether such a person existed or not, but I know that the name has been used to spread everything from the most tender, loving and generous care to the most brutal and hateful crimes and wars imaginable. I think there must be as many thoughts about "who was Jesus" as there are people to think them.

Overall, I am in concert with your thinking about religious organizations and texts as mass crowd control devices. While I know the rational way to address my non-belief is to say I'm agnostic, I find it simpler and more forthright to simply say I'm atheist. I have seen no evidence to convince me of any supernatural beings.

I think this would best and most simply descibe my sense of any spiritual inclinations:

http://www.ushistory.org/us/26f.asp

So, in a sense, I believe that those things which most people ascribe to a god are a natural, human traits. We can't always name them, they are larger than any one of us, and from that void of understanding, many believe it must be supernatural, and call it god.

Which takes us right to the authenticity of "testimonies." What you describe as "not having a testimony," would he what I call your demand for authenticity. As much as you wanted to be a recipient of the *good things* that were (wrongly) promised you in exchange for bearing your testimony, self-respect and honor, those things you know instinctually, created a dilemma for you, which your inherent spirituality (morality) told you would be wrong to lie about.

For your companions, maybe not as honest, insightful or attentive as you, they either have good feelings and call them "Mormon," or, don't mind "lying for the lord." Since we know Joe Smith was a lying, wife-stealing, chiild-molesting convicted con-man, we also know that no one's "Mormon" testimony can be based on an actual, factual spirituality. It doesn't mean that those who have testimonies are *really* lying, but that they possibly are ascribing those very *real* feelings to something that must be impossible to exist. They do so from that void of understanding.

So, they say, "It's real!! Keep trying!!" while your wisdom would not bend to a lie. I bet all of you could get *very* frustrated.

The love in you, the good things you want to share with others, the good you want to do in this life, those things are real, and still alive and well in you. For a time, they were given over to a false story, but they are now fully, 100% yours again, as they always have been. You have freed yourself to loose them onto the world as you will.

You bring your love with you into this place, as many do. We cannot do otherwise, and it is bigger than any one of us. We wonder at the beauty of it from time to time, not quite able to define it well in words, but understanding that we are each a part of it, and feeling so very lucky to hold on to the truth of each other, just being.

But, being human, we can also fight and bicker from time to time, much like sisters and brothers. ;)

You are most welcome, and I will look forward to you posts!

about discovering the Mormon history, after all the sacrifices you and y our family made after your conversion to the Mormon church.

Welcome to the Exmormon.org board my friend. You are wanted here. Many like you have found this lie out and been devastated. This is where lies are discussed and lives and reborn, a place where success is launched one life at time. Thank you for your posting, and I ask your forgiveness if my response gives you any offence, it is not intended in any form of disrespect or over familiarity. This writing is just my way. -painting

Oh, if one could somehow separate the acts of love from the people, from the lies of doctrine -it might make knowing our shared past serving callings in Mormonism was good hearted, good effort, and come from a good place inside our humanity. If only knowing our love for our family is real, and our love for people is real, and our sacrifice and caring work and efforts have been real efforts, and they were real efforts for sacrifice and work in the past before we saw Mormon history and lies in marketing the modern Mormon doctrine. Yet the caring, compassionate effort, working through fatigue, working long hours trying to be a good, a great worker is real, even if the church history is not real. And we are real good, and you are real good even through the church history is not real good. Because we are real people, you are I, who really worked very hard at our life, at home to be good people, at work to do our best, long hours, and even if the church is not true, we are still good people and good workers from good families and we love our families very much - even though church history presented was a lie. Our love of our family and our love of our community and our good strengths and many assets working are real nonetheless. Please hold onto the real strengths and real attitude of hard work and real connection with your real love of your real family, especially as you are going through this real grievous awareness of Mormon history lies in marketing presentation to good people like yourself and myself, your family, and my family. Whereever we are in the world. We love our families, we tried real hard, we kept the commandments we could and we found out we were lied to in Mormon marketing about hiding past Mormon history which specially separated us from the love and support of our local community.

But we can get through it.


If one could look at ones family with love and keep love not conflict and argument as top of the mind- then one could hope to be part of their lives, part of expressing your love and protection to your family well all your life and all their life, that you will help your family in jobs, getting work, help your family raise their children, help your family in their life In many ways.

When I think of how the Mormonism or Mormon doctrine made a big rift in my family- it was like an earthquake fault, or a big canyon between high plateaus of land. All this doctrine made my Mormon family self separate themselves from the rest of our local community, here in California, where Mormonism is a minority religion. And the non Mormon family, held the faith beliefs of the vast majority of the community that surrounded them- and were fully integrated within the love or difficulties of life as a flowing part of the landscape.

When the Mormon doctrine said, oh Don't love him! I lost my first )non Mormon( love and access to his family business and support for life. Being a minority religion needlessly causing great privation , great, suffering, great promotion of needless separation from the love at the table among the people, the common good, the greater place among community- and given your many sacrfices for the Mormon church your sacrifices are incomprehensibly great already.

Please love your life love your life love your life. Please love your joy love your family love the beautiful greenery find art to see love your life. Please do not break the beautiful stretnghts the incomprehensible power which flows through your heart and your mind which your developed growing up in your community. Your past brings such strength to your present.

I honor you. I send you care during your great grief, and I support your in finding lifes best love & success, sincerely joyously rejoining your beautiful community & finding strength. Pride love and honor will come to you, don't give up despite the downturn you can be successful despite this change. Soon you too can sit without grief or guilt and enjoy a cup of tea with caffeine or coffee comfortably with no word of wisdom false guilt shrieks at you to stop sipping friendly tea! WOW how can you live without friendly cups of tea anyways? What was the church trying to have us do? All this sacrifice? For historic facts marketed in through a lense of lies to these GOOD people Good people my family your family good folks, like me and you who were in fact lied to and asked to sacrifice for lies. Now what/ loving your life among community members. Be the love, keep that job, keep working hard, and love your family among your community, knowing they are now suffering, as you used to, by spearing your with doctrinal rules which separated you from the love of your own community, pushed you into a minority religious community full of sacrifices by shepherding you away from the fuller, larger community, somewhat the way the Mormon church made it hard for me to live in my California community gladly and freely. And now you look at life from both sides now (that's a line from a song) music helps the grief and pain. I wish you well.

Best to you please write again.

Thank you my friend, your words and the others who shared my grief brings great relief to my burdens! It feels like a thorn has been plucked out of my throat. It lessens my depression. I cant thank you all enough for welcoming me here with warm hearts. You are all been very helpful for my recovery!

Thank you Quest! I've read some of the stories in the biography section and I couldn't imagine that some people were shunned or disowned by family members just because they couldnt believe anymore. I just called my mom who is now currently staying in another island here in the Philippines and told her I will no longer attend church on each Sundays. She was asking me why then I told her that it's a long story but told her that I dont believe that mormonism is true anymore and I could prove that to anyone. She didnt ask me more about it but told me it was ok with her if I dont want to go to church anymore. She then went on to say that the most important thing to her is that I take care of myself (referring about my depression and suicidal thoughts which she is so much aware of) and that I live a happy life.

We are sealed as family in the temple a year after she was baptized. Now that I know that that too wasn't true, I would cherish each day that I have with my family to the fullest not with a wishful thinking to serve God with all my heart might, mind and strength without worrying too much at all about family. I can see the dilemma that the church had created with members. I saw many women complaining at church about waiting for their husbands that are on meetings while they are outside taking of their children that are already very hungry.

Everytime I attend meetings, you will always here about how to increase numbers on each key indicators that are being passed down by the area presidency for each local leaders to think about. I am beginning to wonder why not think about people instead of numbers. I even one time suggested that we go about reaching out to these people and help them ease their burdens and hunger than imposing guilt to them for not being active in the church. The primary reasons why they are not attending is because they use every time that they have to find means for their food that they badly need each day. If we can somehow do something to ease that by distributing to them what they have contributed, we will not need to preach them about going to church, they will go themselves. The only answer I get is we dont teach people to just rely on the church for their food. They did misunderstand my point. These people are paying contributions when they can without even asking for any returns. They are not relying on the church for their food for god's sake. I am simply suggesting to atleast give them atleast a substance of things they have been hoping for, the evidence for their faith!

It makes me mad everytime I think about it. They call for meetings but are deaf to suggestions. What a total waste of time.

I regretted the time that I wasted with spending 2 years of my life and even more to a fraud than to have used it to spend time with my loved ones, develop early in my career, and build real friendships.

Hi knight

Thanks for sharing your story. You sound very forthright and courageous. Let me tell you the depression will pass. Depression is anger turned inward, and you have plenty to be angry about. Hopefully telling your story has unburdened you somewhat. You are now free to determine your own self worth. Already you have touched many lives. You are passing through the refiner’s fire. Like a baby duck being boiled alive. Now let God eat his balut in peace.

Welcome! I’m glad you found this site.I like your English. My husband was in the Philippines for about 6 weeks temporarily when he was in the AF( Clark AFB)
I remember him always talking about these stinky eggs there. It has dead baby chickens in them, and I think they suck it out.
He never tried it, but had friends who were stationed there trying it.( Not their wife’s though)
I forgot all about it, until I saw your post.
I hope you meet people who can help you there. I know that the church takes advantage of countries like the Philippines a lot because some of the people who don’t understand English well .
They are easier to fool at first because they can be lied to easier.
Are there any ex Mormon groups near you?

Hello Hockeyrat! I know the egg you were talking about! We call it here "Balut". I tried it many times and it is not actually stinky but can be really nasty haha because of the embryonic chick that's inside. That's a duckling though. And Yeah! We suck it out hahaha! We enjoy eating it though with friends just for fun!

I dont know whether there are other exmormons here near me. I hope I could have someone from here who is also a filipino. This is why I introduced myself as a filipino in a hope that there maybe some filipinos here who could Identify me and hangout with. Nevertheless, I already feel very welcome here with you guys! Thank you soooo much. And you are right, I perfectly know how gullible people with very less education is being taken advantage of here. Most Filipinos if not all, are also very supersticious, it will be easy for a missionary to have one person here to do something for the church out of guilt or fear of punishment from God if they disobey. There are lots of new converts here who cannot even tell how Joseph Smith came to be a prophet or have actually read the BOM but when asked if they believe it they would say yes just because they often hear other people say they believe! The baptism interview only asks whether investigators that are candidates for baptism believes that Joseph Smith is or was a prophet and if the current living prophet is God's prophet. It never ask people to restate or tell about what they know about how Joseph came to be prophet! It is enough for people to get baptize when they are in the affirmative about Joseph being a true prophet irregardless of their lack of knowledge about his simplest history.

When I was a missionary, whenever an investigator say they feel the book of mormon is true or joseph is a prophet, I do not really believe them, so what I do is have them retell to me how do they say that they believe it or what lead them to believe. I sometimes ask them to retell without looking at the pamphlet how Joseph came to be a prophet because I really couldnt believe that they receive answers that easy while I was asking all my life and has not received even goosebumps! If they cannot retell to me, I I mostly become frustrated by telling them "how could they say they believe if they dont even recall or understand what we taught them". My companion is always irritated at me when I act like that! Sometimes I am being an asshole with people trying to deceive me or themselves. This also why I hate testimony meetings during first Sundays of each months.

https://youtu.be/F3Q4ikDzjKI
Don’t know if this will show up. It’s an old LDS film of Mormons in the Philippines

Ok, it showed up. Sometimes it doesn’t work.I just googled exmormons in the Philippines and that showed up. I remember some of those old movies. Johnny Lingo is still a favourite.
My husband’s memory came back a little, when I described what you wrote about it. He had a couple of friends who were married to Filipinos. One of them used to make some egg rolls that he loved.
A lot of military bases here in the states have Filipino/ American clubs bear them, mainly Air Force. Did they have icky lizards there too? Probably geckos. He was in Korea for a year and got into Kim Chee, another stinky fermented food.
Do you live near any military bases? Some of them are starting to get Americans training with them.
A lot of the guys messed Clark AFB when they handed it back over .i couldn’t take the heat there. I start getting too warm when it’s around 64F.

I just watched the old film you sent but there's nothin exmo there. It was a short documentary about the LDS church and what it believes. It shows its values about families and service. It shows the Church in a positive light.

We do have geckos here I saw a really big one in Dagupan City in Pangasinan if you know where that is. I am from Caloocan North Metro Manila and Clark Air Base is far from here. I am not aware of any near military air bases where I reside. It's true that it is too hot in here during summer plus the humidity. It is like you are inside a huge sauna! This is probably why most of the filipinos have brown skins. I am not sure haha! There are also stinky fermented food here like bagoong alamang and fish sauce we call it 'patis' in Tagalog.

Also my first branch president who was encouraging me to go on a mission left the church while I was in the mission field. He joined another church and is now a preacher there! He is the only exmo I know here but the last time I visited him with my companion in home teaching prior to my discovery of Joseph's hidden history, he was encouraging me to join his newly found church which I also despise so much. I believe that church is just like the Mormon church or even worse. We call it here Iglesia ni Cristo (Church of Christ). Their signature doctrine is that they believe that Christ is not God but just an ordinary man. They have three days worship services, I think its thursday saturday and sundays.

It's also a restorationist church just like the Mormons and probably a copycat from the mormon church because the founder claims a very similar experience with Joe Smith where he claimed that he was visited by an angel and was called to be the messenger who will restore the true church. It is only most popular and huge here in the Philippines. They usually engaged with strong and heated debates we usually call Bible Bashing and they do it with another very prominent religion here at the Luneta Park where the members usually engaged in a riot after the debates. It was intense and insane.

knight, as soon as you talked about that branch president, I knew it was Iglesia ni Cristo he'd moved to.

Yeah, that's another cult. Out of the frying pan and into the fire for that former BP, sadly :(

For those who haven't heard of it:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iglesia_ni_Cristo

Ex-mormons will notice a lot that's familiar there...

Yeah and there were rumors that the founder had copied Joseph Smith's restoration doctrine that blinded lots of people here into believing that only the members of this Iglesia ni Cristo church will get to heaven and the rest who dont belong there are damned. That is crazy! Much like mormons in every way Except for the baptism for the dead thing and becoming like gods.

Knight, Just in support of you, I will mention my history.

I was one of the first "elders" in several areas, including Malolos, Bulacan which is near your hometown. After Malolos, I helped open Cabanatuan City, Cebu City, and Davao City.

And I am now agnostic. I began realizing the false information which I was spreading even during those times when the Philippines, in its entirety was a single mission. But I went on. For some of us, it takes a long time to realize the fraud.

All of my move toward the truth started before there was such a thing as an Internet, and now anyone can easily find the accurate information with a simple Google.

I married a Filipina who was born in Pasig, but who I met in the USA and we have been happily married for over fourty years. I have learned a lot about Tagalog and Illocano, but since we only taught in English, I never learned any of it fluently. But I do pronounce quite well those Tagalog and Illocano words and phrases that I do know. I was able to read and understand very well all of the Tagalog that people have written in this thread.

I have eaten Balut a few times, but I prefer it's relative, which my wife calls penoy...no bones or feathers, just delicious taste. And it has a good reputation for putting spice in a marriage, lol.

I wish you the best of life and hope that you NEVER think of suicide, because those "elders" who are trying to get you back to church are learning from you, and some of them will also eventually leave the church and will thank you for your introduction to the facts about Mormonism.

I don't frequent this board anymore, but I do a search on Philippines occasionally because I want to be there for people like you.

The Internet is the biggest threat that Religion has ever had because you can get the information without going to a library for your research. Stay on this board for as long as you need to. There are some smart, funny, great people here, kaibigan ko.

Darksparks



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/01/2018 11:00AM by Darksparks.

Is the “ Church of Christ” over there, connected to all of the “ Church of Christ” churches here? They seem that they may be kind of cultish, but don’t know what caliber. I never met any that I know of, but remember the church bus they had driving in our neighbourhood on Sundays, along with some baptist church buses , picking up children for vacation bible school.

I am not sure if but I've seen pictures of Iglesia ni Cristo churches in another country with a name of Church of Christ and below it the Iglesia ni Cristo translation. You can easily diatinguish their church as it is gothic in design and with spires like some mormon temples that has 6 spires.

by the way, the mishies came to me last night! One of them went into my room where I was while I was playing games on my phone! He told me to stop reading none sense against the church! He was speaking in English since he's frustrated at me! I told him in a mild voice "why should I stop reading those things as those were coming from the Book of Mormon and Doctrine and Covenants. Are you really telling me those are none sense?" There were silence for like 20 seconds... I am not looking at him! I was sitting on the edge of the bed looking at my phone playing! He sat by my side and he was not saying anything! Then he told me about what his mission president told him about the book of abraham that it was rather prophetic than it was historical! I answered him by saying "So are you telling me that things that was said there are fictional as it didnt happen not being historical?" There was silence again! I was still not looking at him and he was sitting by my side! Then he began to speak again telling me about the stone in a hat! He told me if I knew about those things! I said "No, I dont!" then he said "it doesnt matter". I said "What is that all about? If that can help with my concerns why it doesnt matter?" Then he said "Please, come back! We need you!" My hands and fingers are beginning to shake and tears were starting to build up in my eyes! I said "I cant anymore! and why should I?" He said "because you are my friend and I am your friend!" Then, I said "What if I dont come back? Am I still your friend?" He said "ofcourse you are still my friend and I wont give up." I then told him that "I've already committed the unpardonable sin and is beyond forgiveness." He told me "No you havent!" Then I said "Oh come on man! Read your book of mormon! Have you already eaten yet? There is food at the table or let me buy some more!" He then said "No you havent! Have you ever thought of killing someone?" I said "No, why should I? I dont remember korihor thinking of killing someone after denying God! Maybe I have since I thought of killing myself so is that unpardonable sin?"

The discussion went on! Honestly I love the guy since I considered him a friend and he was very sincere! I can sense that this missionary himself is now beginning to get confused like me. I feel so much compassion about him and I feel like going to church this Sunday just because he was like pleading! I dont know what to do! I am being conflicted with my love for a friend and my anger towards the church. This missionary even told me that it is ok that I am angry with the church and Joseph Smith and not believing at all yet still he told me to please come back!

We went out my room and joined his companion who was talking to my dad! I gave them refreshments and we watched the Super Blue Blood Moon together outside like nothing happened. I told them after that I am already agnostic, atheistic or whatever! That I am not holding any claims or beliefs! that being under any priesthood authority is bullshit! Yes I did say bullshit in front of them! I can say that I am happy to find that there is a mormon like him who do not judge me, not like his companion who quoted to me a book of mormon verse where Christ said that after knowing him and then will deny him, it is better that I hadnt known him at all!!!! Like I care! However, I am sad that this mormon missionary friend is also being brainwashed and trapped in a fraud! I hope he would understand someday when he return here!

Knight:

I learned how intoxicating it can be to hear a "foreigner" speak clearly in my own language. Since Filipinos speak perfectly good English already, there is no need to learn the local dialect.

But the church recognizes that speaking the local language will by itself attract listeners, and takes full advantage of that situation.

One more thing...Just for fun I thought I would add something to my previous post above.

I have found success with Filipina beauties, by using the following phrase, which by the way I have not used for over 40 years, but it is fun to say. And they say that I pronounce it correctly:

"Napanaginip ko kailan lang, at ngayon ay natagpuan nakita..."

Have a good day.



Edited 7 time(s). Last edit at 02/01/2018 11:12AM by Darksparks.

Right! The only reason why I listened to the mormons that time was because I was amused with how an american guy speaks Tagalog! He even bragged that he was able to speak the language in two months!

I like penoy a lot too man! Glad to hear you actually served here as a missionay! You know our culture so well and how very welcoming filipinos are even with strangers! We have relatives in Cebu... my dad is actually a cebuano and we also have relatives in Davao! we have so many dialects and I know bit about Ilocano too!

I like your Tagalog pick up line! Haha! That'll surely strike a woman's heart right through the core!

Now I am here, I found a new meaning and purpose for my life once more! I thought I've lost my purpose after I discovered damning truths abouy the church. I was really hoping all my life that God is real and that there is really a life waiting for everyone of us in the afterlife where we can meet together in the flesh as families! When I realized that all was just wishful thinking and are false hope, I really thought I lost all hope. I am glad that I found a place in here.

I know that my journey back to normal way of life may take a while but I feel I am on the right track! Thank you all guys for helping me!

Sometimes it is hard to find a piano player. They may work on you incessantly to come back to church because you play piano.

Ha Ha ha tumatawa...

Hey, and I just read on another thread here that they are making my ole residence, Cabanatuan City, an ENTIRE mission. When I was there, we could barely fill the front seats on Sundays, and church was held in our small rented house.

In 1970 Cabanatuan City was a relatively small town. There were just four of us missionaries, and we were running out of area to prostelite in.

Not far from that town is a memorial to the Americans who were held captive during the Japanese occupation. There was a concentration camp there and a Movie was made about it, called "Raid at Cabanatuan" I spent close to 5 months in Cabanatuan and NEVER went there to pay my respects. For that I am sorrowful to this day.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/02/2018 09:05AM by Darksparks.

Darksparks Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Sometimes it is hard to find a piano player. They
> may work on you incessantly to come back to church
> because you play piano.
>
> Ha Ha ha tumatawa...

Too bad coz I am the only member in our branch who can play the piano so it has been 5 sundays already that they were singing in acapella hahaha! Theyll get used to it though but I know theyll haunt me for sure as long as Im still here.

> Hey, and I just read on another thread here that
> they are making my ole residence, Cabanatuan City,
> an ENTIRE mission. When I was there, we could
> barely fill the front seats on Sundays, and church
> was held in our small rented house.
>
> In 1970 Cabanatuan City was a relatively small
> town. There were just four of us missionaries,
> and we were running out of area to prostelite in.
>
>
> Not far from that town is a memorial to the
> Americans who were held captive during the
> Japanese occupation. There was a concentration
> camp there and a Movie was made about it, called
> "Raid at Cabanatuan" I spent close to 5 months in
> Cabanatuan and NEVER went there to pay my
> respects. For that I am sorrowful to this day.

I think the camp you were referrin to is the camp pangatian! The bataan death march is one that resulted to The raid of cabanatuan you mentioned. Sayang, you missed it :(

Sounds like you might become a missionary to the missionaries.
They found as though they’re desperate and under pressure to bring you back into the church. Sounds like some of them have doubts and don’t fully know everything about the church.They could be making excuses to see you slso because they’re curious about dome of the things they didn’t know and understand and you know and they know they can trust you to discuss things that they can’t discuss with members from the church,
Of course, they’ll be ones who are fully indoctrinated, but there’s plenty of other ones that you can reach.
I’m glad that you’re also wise now ad won’t get suckered into joining another cult church , like your friend.
My husband’s friend who used to live there with his Filipino wife, even after he got out the military , because he loved the culture and his wife’s family , finally left because the growing Muslim problem.
He lost touch with him on Facebook a few years ago, like some of his other military friends, but hopefully he’ll find him in the future.
A lot of people don’t like Facebook anymore because it’s not as private as it used to be

I asked them when they came back "what now? Are you going to teach me?" They said "No! You know almost everythin'! You are even better in doctrine than any of us here!" I told them "No! I dont know anything at all anymore! If I do, I wouldnt be asking questions! So what now? Why keep comin back? You want to know more?" And they did still come in and was tellin me to come back! I quoted them Elder Bruce R McConkie where he said in his talk titled "The Caravan Moves On" that "...the Church is like a great caravan... what does it matter if predators claim those few who fall by the way?..." So I told them that their very own general authority says that I dont matter! They should stay in their caravan and not go down trying to save me or we will both fall a prey while the Caravan moves on! I told them that Monson is dead so no rescuing the one nmore!

That missionary still insists that he wont give up and he would even come back here after his mission to bug me! I told him I've made up my mind! Hahaha we're both hard-headed!

Dear Knight 2284,

Masuwerte ka, may internet na nung umalis ka sa simbahang Mormon. Ako, Bibliya ang nagmulat sa akin. Nagsimula iyan sa pagbabasa ko ng Bagong Tipan. Gusto ko kasing ipakita sa mga kaibigan kong mga Kristiyanong Evangelical na mas malapit ang aral ng Mormon sa Bibliya kaysa sa kanila. Kaya, sinimulan kong basahin ang Bagong Tipan na walang halong komentaryo ng Mormonismo para makita ko kung ano yung nakikita nila sa Bibliya na hindi ko pa nakita.

Maganda sana yung plano ko. Kaso, nag back-fire sa akin. Doon ko nakita kung papaanong pinapadilim ng Mormonismo imbes na paliwanagin yung mga nakasulat sa Bibliya. Diyan nagsimula yung pagdududa ko.

Isang araw, siguro 1988 iyon, nakita ko sa National Bookstore yung aklat na "Mormon Murders". Binili ko kaagad at binasa ko. Doon ko nakita yung pagkatao nila Gordon Hinckley at Dallin Oaks na hindi ko akalaing magagawa nila yung kanilang pagkakaila sa mga transaksyon nila kay Mark Hoffmann. Mga sinungaling.

Tapos nasundan pa iyan ng pagbabago ng mga ritual sa Endowment sa Temple noong 1990. Maraming mga miyembro ngayon ang hindi alam kung gaano kalaki ang binago noon. Samantalang noong misyonaryo ako, pilit kong ipinapakita na yung bautismo ng Katoliko sa mga sanggol ay patunay na nagkaroon ng Great Apostasy kuno. Dahil binago nila yung ritual. Tapos bigla nilang binago yung sa mismong Temple, at hindi man lang nila ipinaliwanag kung bakit.

Kaya bandang 1993, tiwalag na ako. Naging vocal ako sa mga nakikita kong baluktot na aral ng simbahan. Nabuwisit yung bishop ko sa akin. Ipinatiwalag ako. Awa ng Diyos, umalis na rin yung bishop at stake pres sa simbahan na nag-preside sa church court ko. Iyan lang ang consuelo de bobo ko.

Pre, ayaw kong danasin mo yung hirap ng kalagayan ko noon na wala kang matakbuhan na kaibigan dahil lahat ng kamag-anak at kaibigan mo puro Mormon. Para bang may ketong ka na hindi ka nila puwedeng kausapin o alamin kung bakit ka nagdududa. Wala pa kasing internet noon.

Kung may mga tanong ka, pre, huwag kang madyaheng magtanong...

Pare grabe natutuwa naman ako na sa wakas may kasama na ako pinoy dito! Kailan ka pa rito Sa exmormon.org? Akala ko ako lang mag-isa rito! Hindi na ako kristiyano ngayon at wala na ako balak magkristiyano dahil agnostic atheist na ako...

Maraming salamat pre! Marami talaga ako tanong! Hirap din pala ng dinanas mo! Lalo na ako nung nagka internet ko lang nalaman lahat ng ganyan pero sa totoo naman marami narin ako napapansing mali sa simbahan pinapasawalang bahala ko nalang at sa totoo lang wala nman talaga ako patotoo... hindi ako nagsasabi na alam ko totoo ang ganito o ganyan maging nung naging misyonero ako! sinasabi ko lang naniniwala ako pero kahit yun hindi ko dapat sinabi kaya laking pagsisisi ko naging miyembro ako. Taga saan ka pala brad?

"Gaano katagal ka na rito?" Hmmm... too long, I can't even remember. But I'm sure there was no youtube or facebook then. HAH! Not even DSL. Heck, I found this site when I came to the US when Americans didnt even know what "texting" was. Yep, it was that long ago. But I'm not a very active commentator here. I only come here occasionally when I want to keep up with the news.

Taga saan ako? I grew up in Manila. My active years were in the Manila Phils. Stake. I know some old timers from Caloocan Stake like the Baluyots and Addurus. But when I left Mormonism, I was in the QC Stake. The Stake Pres at that time was from Caloocan. There was a time in the late 70s when Manila and Caloocan were in the same stakes.

I can understand why you have become agnostic-atheist. I went through that same route too. I guess Mormonism is the gateway drug to atheism...hahaha. Mormons cling to Mormonism on the basis of fluffy feelings. Once those ethereal emotions evaporate from the bottle, heated by the fires of rational thought, there's really nothing left to hold the theological house of cards together. Nothing.

Nothing except the social club. The Mormon religion is not a church but a social club. Neither theology nor history matters in it. Mormons will gladly reject and distort their own teachings and their past to create a "present church" that their congregation can hold on to. That's why your missionary friend wants you badly to return even though he has no rational explanation for wanting so. The past doesn't matter. Only the present has to make sense.

Despite its defects, Mormonism is still something. And atheism is nothing. You can't beat something with nothing. That's a fact of life. You may want to get your family and friends out of Mormonism, but if all you have to offer is the nothingness of atheism, then all they will see is the irrationality of your offer. Mormonism reinvented will spread in Africa, India, and China while it dies in Europe and America.

It will spread as long as altruistic Americans find life meaningful in helping out the unfortunate natives of those "sh*thole" countries. Mormonism reinvented will give that meaning to them, to both givers and takers. I have listened to atheistic explanations on where human altruism comes from, and unfortunately, I have yet to find one that's based on science and not emotions.